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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: 10% store discount is not enough

  1. #121
    Ascendant Laughingstock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mogh View Post
    Its basic business practice.

    If enough people pay and sub then nothing is going to change with rewards until that amount declines which will then force Trion to change the rewards to garner more support.
    The sad part is.. the playerbase will know exactly when the model was failing when they do this. There isn't any reason for them to give stipends now because they are counting cash in hand banked already from six-year subs for SL.

    The day they announce "We decided to be nice guys and now are allowing subs a $10 cash shop stipend", that's the day when I think the gig will be up and people see that not enough sub money was coming in and it was a necessity. Otherwise, they'd simply be nice guys and give it to everyone right now simply because "we asked nice" just like here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Elrar View Post
    Since you asked so nicely, I guess we could

    Consider it done. RIFT is now FREE to Play for all owners - everyone else can enjoy RIFT Free-to-Play when it launches with RIFT 2.3: Empyreal Assault next week, June 12!

    Have fun,

    I hope that day never comes, but if I was to guess when it ever was.. right around the time all these new mmos start coming out later this year.

    I just hope they are able to convince everyone that they did it because we all "asked nicely", and we deserve it and not because they don't want to see subs walk away feeling unappreciated at lesser value. But not sure who'd fall for that at that point since they have the opportunity now and don't...

  2. #122
    Champion of Telara dead2soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingstock View Post
    The sad part is.. the playerbase will know exactly when the model was failing when they do this. There isn't any reason for them to give stipends now because they are counting cash in hand banked already from six-year subs for SL.

    The day they announce "We decided to be nice guys and now are allowing subs a $10 cash shop stipend", that's the day when I think the gig will be up and people see that not enough sub money was coming in and it was a necessity. Otherwise, they'd simply be nice guys and give it to everyone right now simply because "we asked nice" just like here:




    I hope that day never comes, but if I was to guess when it ever was.. right around the time all these new mmos start coming out later this year.

    I just hope they are able to convince everyone that they did it because we all "asked nicely", and we deserve it and not because they don't want to see subs walk away feeling unappreciated at lesser value. But not sure who'd fall for that at that point since they have the opportunity now and don't...
    At that point I'll just reject it on principle. I offered sub dollars for a good value and they said no, you'll play for free and like it. And so I will.

  3. #123
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    I am with a lot of people in this thread. The Patron's bonus's that the subscribers get are decent at best and with the new faction grind of 3 new factions and the extension of 3 existing ones, the ones to up rep are nice. The discount is OK, but it's not great. I shouldn't have to spend more in a month than what i do on a 3 month sub to get my money's worth of 10%. A midway point for a discount would be to up it to 20%, give a $5 monthly stipend as well upping the daily boot's to some where between 50-65%.

    I think these are fair and people will feel that they are definitely getting their $15 worth. I know you can't make everyone happy but starting with your current long term subscriber base is a good place to start. Those are the people who actively tell their friends and other people what kind of game RIFT is which means they have the potential to bring in possibly more subscribing players than free to play players.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irasalgan View Post
    You're getting a game you previously subbed for, for free. On top of that, it's not sitting stale, there are still regular updates, with new content for all players.

    Surely that's more than enough?!
    think about what you said for a moment. Why would I pay for what you said when I can get that without paying anything?

    I'm off the mind that 5$ in credits is enough but they are going to need to add some sort of stipend at some point if they want to keep the subs. I have a good long while left (at least 5 months) so Trion has time to come to their senses. But as much as I hate using the F2P system, if they don't make subbing worthwhile that's what I'll do....I don't WANT to do that and Trion shouldn't want me to do that either I don't think.
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  5. #125
    Ascendant Phelim on the Moor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dead2soon View Post
    Took that survey and it's asking all of the wrong questions, just like their other recent survey that only looked at the "Competitiveness" of Rift's PVE, rather than focusing on if folks found the game "Fun" or "Enjoyable".

    They talk about the subscription option during the survey, yet ask a vague "how likely are you to recommend Rift?". I'm very likely to recommend since it's free. But I have 0 out of 10 going to recommend a subscription.

    They really need a new person to put these surveys together. They're quantifying all the wrong metrics.
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  6. #126
    Rift Disciple iceash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phelim on the Moor View Post
    Took that survey and it's asking all of the wrong questions, just like their other recent survey that only looked at the "Competitiveness" of Rift's PVE, rather than focusing on if folks found the game "Fun" or "Enjoyable".

    They talk about the subscription option during the survey, yet ask a vague "how likely are you to recommend Rift?". I'm very likely to recommend since it's free. But I have 0 out of 10 going to recommend a subscription.

    They really need a new person to put these surveys together. They're quantifying all the wrong metrics.

    But isn't that the point, those survey's are so when the question is asked how are the survey's treating you? The reply can be The Patron surveys are treating me pretty well actually.
    Last edited by iceash; 06-04-2013 at 09:27 PM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenoheart View Post
    Well thats great. If this stipend thing is actually the minority and we are gonna lose the battle, and this is how you choose to respond to people, then just consider me unsubbed.

    Was great doing business with ya while it lasted.
    Isn;t that what the point of the conversion was....so you don't have to subscribe?
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  8.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #128
    "Concentrated Evil" BrandGuru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phelim on the Moor View Post
    Took that survey and it's asking all of the wrong questions, just like their other recent survey that only looked at the "Competitiveness" of Rift's PVE, rather than focusing on if folks found the game "Fun" or "Enjoyable".

    They talk about the subscription option during the survey, yet ask a vague "how likely are you to recommend Rift?". I'm very likely to recommend since it's free. But I have 0 out of 10 going to recommend a subscription.
    That vague question you're referring to is the Net Promoter Score. It's not connected to the other questions in the survey:

    Considering your complete experience with Trion Worlds, how likely would you be to recommend RIFT to a friend or colleague?

    We ask the question because we have asked it before and can compare/contrast the results. There is a methodology to our madness, from game design to even silly stuff like marketing (and market research).

    As Daglar mentioned, we're listening to you--and will continue to do so. We've made improvements to subscriptions based on your feedback through the survey, the Community, and other sources.

    This is the start of the F2P quest chain; not the final turn-in. Thanks for all your passion that makes us work harder to make RIFT even better.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chalennaravenmour View Post
    I am with a lot of people in this thread. The Patron's bonus's that the subscribers get are decent at best and with the new faction grind of 3 new factions and the extension of 3 existing ones, the ones to up rep are nice. The discount is OK, but it's not great. I shouldn't have to spend more in a month than what i do on a 3 month sub to get my money's worth of 10%. A midway point for a discount would be to up it to 20%, give a $5 monthly stipend as well upping the daily boot's to some where between 50-65%.

    I think these are fair and people will feel that they are definitely getting their $15 worth. I know you can't make everyone happy but starting with your current long term subscriber base is a good place to start. Those are the people who actively tell their friends and other people what kind of game RIFT is which means they have the potential to bring in possibly more subscribing players than free to play players.
    I like this but would bump it to a 25% discount, that would be more than fair, I mean they are already get $15 per month 10% discount is not going to encourage those already spending that to spend more, 20% still not enough, but 25% should at least encourage some.

    On the other hand 50% would encourage most, and might be the best solution.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobaltius View Post
    I like this but would bump it to a 25% discount, that would be more than fair, I mean they are already get $15 per month 10% discount is not going to encourage those already spending that to spend more, 20% still not enough, but 25% should at least encourage some.

    On the other hand 50% would encourage most, and might be the best solution.
    No no -the point is missed.. if I am ALREADY giving Trion $15 a month -I dont plan on spending MORE (even at a 50% discount) -I expect to get some 'cash shop' value for my money - otherwise, I'll cancel the sub, and end up spending LESS than $15 a month (if anything) at the cash shop.

    Subbing, and THEN buying more in the shop at ANY discount will end up costing me more money. The business model of 'guaranteed' money from a sub gives a 'value of money' that is higher than the random revenue from micro-transactions of the cash shop alone.

    ANY percent discount is not a compelling reason to keep my sub.

  11. #131
    Ascendant Phelim on the Moor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrandGuru View Post
    That vague question you're referring to is the Net Promoter Score. It's not connected to the other questions in the survey:

    Considering your complete experience with Trion Worlds, how likely would you be to recommend RIFT to a friend or colleague?

    We ask the question because we have asked it before and can compare/contrast the results. There is a methodology to our madness, from game design to even silly stuff like marketing (and market research).

    As Daglar mentioned, we're listening to you--and will continue to do so. We've made improvements to subscriptions based on your feedback through the survey, the Community, and other sources.

    This is the start of the F2P quest chain; not the final turn-in. Thanks for all your passion that makes us work harder to make RIFT even better.
    The problem with this, however, is that Daglar stated on the Livestream that the results of this survey is convincing him that they are making the right decision with the model they've chosen. I answered with an 8 or 9 as to how "likely would you be to recommend RIFT to a friend...". Had the question been "how likely was I to recommend a friend to subscribe", you'd have gotten a 0.

    Daglar and the rest of you seem to think all is well based on that question. But you're not getting the right information.

    Create another smaller survey asking "Are you subscribing now?", "Will you maintain your subscription after F2P given current Patron bonuses?", and "If you longer plan to subscribe, why not?"

    And send it to all current subscribers. Methinks you'll get a far better insight into your plans.
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  12. #132
    Rift Master turbododge's Avatar
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    10% + an extra 5% per 12 months of subscription.

    so for me with over 36 months, it would be at 25%

    that sounds a lot more enticing for us people that been playing since beta

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  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingstock View Post
    Right now is the time for Trion to strike while the iron is hot.
    Nice

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eylisia View Post
    I've probably been one of the biggest advocates for a stipend/ discount for Patrons, though to be fair, everyone believes that the thing they want is what everyone 'deserves' for subscribing.

    Stipend would be awesome but a discount of 10% is much better than nothing and the boosts, while not mindblowing, are not the only thing on offer. Subscribing gives priority in queues which , after the queues people have experienced these past few days, will be very welcomed when the time comes. There is also the loyalty system which is only available to subscribers and gives access to many items that non-patrons won't have.

    So far, from what little I've seen, we have what we deserve as patrons and a stipend would just be a bonus.
    Yes people paying should go to the top of a Q.

    But unless Rift opens a few servers they will be forcing you to pay just to log in. Which is bad. And how long will someone sit even if they are now not paying in a Q to play a game? Not long. They'll move on and Rift will be no better off than it was before.

    I will not sit in a Q if I was paying. Trion shouldn't let it come to that.

    Most servers now are at high and the true F2P hasn't even started yet.

    They should lock all old servers now to new players. Open up 1 new server. When it's full open another.

    If you have a account on a old server it's not locked to you. But to a new player it is locked.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I'm not trying to push long term subscribers away at all. I'm giving them the game for free - I'm not sure how making it free for them to experience everything they have experienced in the past is any sort of attempt to drive them away.
    I really appreciate the amount of time and effort you guys have put into this and in communicating with your community. I just wanted to speak up on this point.

    I don't claim to speak for everyone, just myself, though I know of others who feel the same way.

    I know this may sound a little crazy and counter-intuitive, but the problem with giving subscribers, like myself, everything we've had "for free" is that is not what we want. We WANT to pay a monthly sub for access to the content and to support Trion. Prior to F2P access to the game was the reward for the sub.

    Now that reward seems lacking, making the sub seem unnecessary. So I feel forced into a position of either continuing a sub to support a game I love, but not getting a sufficient return on that sub, or not subbing and supporting a game I love through micro-transactions and feeling my options for neat cash store stuff are limited unless I open my pockets every once in a while.

    Logically it might not make sense, I get that. But emotionally it just feels off and puts long-term subscribers in an awkward position.

    A help for this WOULD be monthly stipend of credits, so that I can access cash shop items easily, for $15/mo, without the pressure of microtrans, AND we'd continue supporting Trion in the same manner as before. Plus, since BIS items aren't available in the cash shop, a monthly stipend wouldn't make a sub necessary to play the game, which I know is the big concern you have been expressing.

    Anyway, still love you guys. Keep up the good work.
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