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Thread: Scott Hartsman : Happy Customers Stick Around Longer

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    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Default Scott Hartsman : Happy Customers Stick Around Longer

    Anyone remember this ? Jun 7th 2011

    "Here's the overall philosophy behind all this: Happy customers stick around longer," Scott Hartsman said in an interview with Gamefront. "That's what we think. That's the beginning and end of it." It may seem like common sense, but for Hartsman and the team at Trion Worlds, it's a lesson they feel is easy to forget.

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06...around-longer/

    *Taken from a gamefront interview*

    Didn't take long for Trion to change its tune did it? Now its more customers less longevity and who cares if they're happy.

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara jaal's Avatar
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    Trion believe customers will be happier when the servers are more populated and they can play with their friends who don't want to pay a sub.

    Customers wont be happy with the current model, the servers aren't populated enough as it is and with the reduced dev team updates will become slower meaning more people will leave and less income so even slower updates

  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Fascinating response Jaal. Quite different than the previous view of F2Players as barely more than pond scum.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...play-and-money

    "That's an interesting one," said Scott Hartsman, when asked when Rift would turn free-to-play "Right now, absolutely no plans whatsoever.

    "One of the assumptions people make is you can just take a game and throw a switch and change the model. For starters, you'd have to decide that that would be a good thing, and I do not think it would be - that would be a fairly large net negative for Rift and Rift community.

    "The company as a whole doesn't have a whole lot of religion about business models," he went on. "To us, business model is a function of what is the game designed for, and what the audience is expecting. With this audience, with this type of game, with this level of quality, we very consciously designed a game that would have its best chance of succeeding in a subscription model. "

    The unavoidable statistic, however, is that games do better once they turn free-to-play. Or so we've been led to believe. DDO doubled its activity; LOTRO tripled its revenue; AOC doubled its revenue; a million new people played DCUO; and Champions Online helped Atari profits rise.

    Wouldn't turning free-to-play also make Rift much bigger?

    "It depends how you define bigger," said Hartsman. "If you define bigger in terms of raw numbers of users that you can attract at a launch - absolutely; free is a great way to get large, massive numbers of users.

    "The thing people need to be mindful of is, if you think subscription users surf between games, free-to-play users bounce out. Subscription game users bounce out once a month; a free game user bounces out in minutes or hours. So you actually need to get numbers like that, and sustain numbers like that, to be able to make money.

    "Keep in mind that there's a fundamental difference in the way of thinking and the way you need to design games if you do take them free-to-play.

    "Take a free-to-play game or a social game, where the business is all about - the social games' word for it is, 'going whaling'. "The idea is you have a paying player subsidising the play of, potentially, dozens or hundreds of other users. And so you have to be willing to create a game that has the ability to make huge sums of money from relatively small numbers of people.

    "Once you decide that you are going to enter the whaling business, it's a different mindset and a different set of goals you're designing for entirely."
    Last edited by CericX; 05-16-2013 at 03:58 AM.

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    Two year old news is two years old .. life changes, when you grow up you hopefully may learn that.

    In any case, you're not even remotely trying to produce a balanced argument when you summarize what he said as referring to "pond scum".
    Last edited by Kerin; 05-16-2013 at 04:02 AM.

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    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerin View Post
    when i grow up i want to be a real boy!
    The fascinating thing about growing up is a view longer than the next meal. When talking about making purchases for 12 months at a shot OLD news is valid.
    Last edited by CericX; 05-16-2013 at 04:07 AM.

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    Shield of Telara Bluebell's Avatar
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    Wat.

    They're still obviously trying to cater to what we want- They're already looking into compansating the ones who have long subs, buff the Patron thing and otherwise refine the cash shop.

    If going F2P was what they had to do to keep the door of this game open I am happy they did it. I don't like F2P and if there had been a choice I would of opted for P2P all the way, but like it or not the gaming community is changing and the developers have to change with it or go under.

    Just you try and find a better company than Trion, with a better history than theirs. You won't find it.
    Last edited by Bluebell; 05-16-2013 at 04:07 AM.

    "Only in our dreams are we free. The rest of the time we need wages." - Terry Pratchett

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    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebell View Post
    Wat.

    They're still obviously trying to cater to what we want- They're already looking into compansating the ones who have long subs, buff the Patron thing and otherwise refine the cash shop.

    If going F2P was what they had to do to keep the door of this game open I am happy they did it. I don't like F2P and if there had been a choice I would of opted for P2P all the way, but like it or not the gaming community is changing and the developers have to change with it or go under.

    Just you try and find a better company than Trion, with a better history than theirs. You won't find it.
    Evidently not from Scott's thoughts regarding F2P. Though you'll note if you look around the web that he's had a fast and furious change of heart regarding that too. Interestingly two months after announcing his plan to leave Trion. One has to wonder what the conditions of leaving were.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielta...re-of-mmorpgs/

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    Plane Walker BadTouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CericX View Post
    Evidently not from Scott's thoughts regarding F2P. Though you'll note if you look around the web that he's had a fast and furious change of heart regarding that too. Interestingly two months after announcing his plan to leave Trion. One has to wonder what the conditions of leaving were.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielta...re-of-mmorpgs/
    Honestly, i was lookin for that link already, cuz got annoyed by "harstman this hartsman that".
    You sir, reacted before me.

    Instead quoting hartsman from november 2011, quote him from may 2013, which is, 2 weeks ago.
    Last edited by BadTouch; 05-16-2013 at 04:24 AM.
    Badtouch @ Gelidra - Level 60 Mage
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    I think rift has not enough tentacled monsters.

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    Shield of Telara Bluebell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CericX View Post
    Evidently not from Scott's thoughts regarding F2P. Though you'll note if you look around the web that he's had a fast and furious change of heart regarding that too. Interestingly two months after announcing his plan to leave Trion. One has to wonder what the conditions of leaving were.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielta...re-of-mmorpgs/
    Nice article on Hartsman, but I don't really see what this has to do with my post.

    "Only in our dreams are we free. The rest of the time we need wages." - Terry Pratchett

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    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadTouch View Post
    Honestly, i was lookin for that link already, cuz got annoyed by "harstman this hartsman that".
    You sir, reacted before me.

    Instead quoting hartsman from november 2011, quote him from may 2013, which is, 2 weeks ago.
    It's in the link.

  11. #11
    Champion Taxt's Avatar
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    i miss Scott


    these new guys killed Rift

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebell View Post
    Nice article on Hartsman, but I don't really see what this has to do with my post.
    If we assume that Scott Hartsman was being honest and speaking his mind in both articles, drastically different though they are. The concept of customer retention and keeping customers happy has been discarded in favor of churning through as many players as possible to make a quick buck.

    If you choose to assume that Scott Hartsman is being dishonest in one of those articles, no further basis for discussion.

    The two articles don't disagree with each other. They simply make it clear that customer retention is not a concern.. F2P..

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    Shield of Telara Bluebell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CericX View Post
    If we assume that Scott Hartsman was being honest and speaking his mind in both articles, drastically different though they are. The concept of customer retention and keeping customers happy has been discarded in favor of churning through as many players as possible to make a quick buck.

    If you choose to assume that Scott Hartsman is being dishonest in one of those articles, no further basis for discussion.

    The two articles don't disagree with each other. They simply make it clear that customer retention is not a concern.. F2P..
    We might interpret it differently, but to me the core of the concern is the same: what do the players want?

    With the HUGE increase in popularity for LoL Hartsman brings out a very valid point: people have seen how easy it can be to have fun.

    Before MMORPGs belonged to the elite club who were willing to pay up and stick around. The market has changed drastically in just the last year alone. What makes the community happy now, in contrast to two years ago?

    "Only in our dreams are we free. The rest of the time we need wages." - Terry Pratchett

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    F2P games and the people who play them have changed greatly in the last couple of years. Hartsman is a smart guy and he was right at the time but his comments are out of context in today's market.

    That's all there is to it really.

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    Plane Walker BadTouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CericX View Post
    It's in the link.
    I know, ya misunderstood me.
    Badtouch @ Gelidra - Level 60 Mage
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    I think rift has not enough tentacled monsters.

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