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Thread: New Guild Recruitment Documentation -- Provide Proof of Employment and Patron Status

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Default New Guild Recruitment Documentation -- Provide Proof of Employment and Patron Status

    Its obvious that Patron Status and store purchases will be mandatory for serious raiding guilds who want to progress at semi-fast rates.

    I am the GM of Negative Ghostrider, and by no means is my guild hardcore. I was even snubbed by a Rift podcast for not being hardcore enough. But I don't see how my guild can go on raiding without every member being a Patron and spending money as needed on new souls, raid currency, gear, boosts, etc.

    Personally, I don't mind doing this. I'm single and have a good job and I'll either pay what is needed to win or quit the game entirely. But its going to be hard on some people in my guild (students, taking care of family illness, etc) whenever new forced purchases come down the pike. These would be things like new souls.

    Can you imagine trying to progress on Matriarch if your rogues didn't have the Tactician soul? Can you imagine tanks trying to survive Crucia breath without a Defiler in the raid?

    The game may not be Pay2Win, but it will definitely be Pay2Raid. Or at least Pay2NotSuck. So, guess I'll be adding some new required documentation on my guild's application:

    Can you afford to raid? Maybe I'll even force people to fork over some REX before they can join. Nothing proves ability to pay like a membership fee.

    Hooray.

    P.S. Check our my latest blog post, Free to Fail. F2P might be good for Rift, but Devs have some 'splainin to do.
    Last edited by Dunharrow; 05-15-2013 at 11:01 AM.

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    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    Default Pay to Win

    This is my first MMO, so can you explain what it is? Is that "I pay so I get more goodies"?


    How many guilds are actually going to do this? Just curious. If they have the gear and pull the DPS, and we have someone else who can defile, than who is stopping them?
    The only way that someone from Cluster 2 is actually as bad as you all say is if they started playing this game in 2.3 (Free to Play launch).

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    Shield of Telara jaal's Avatar
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    Your guild members will need to have made the one off payment for the news souls (just like any other Xpac) and be subbed to get 15% extra marks. Apart from that there are no other requirements so its not any different to rift atm. not pay to win.

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    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    I like it. 10/10
    Last edited by spaceboots; 05-15-2013 at 11:03 AM.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaal View Post
    Your guild members will need to have made the one off payment for the news souls (just like any other Xpac) and be subbed to get 15% extra marks. Apart from that there are no other requirements so its not any different to rift atm. not pay to win.
    So they will have to pay monthly and make one-off purchases to win. But its not pay to win.

    Got it. Thanks for clarifying.

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    Ascendant Intim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    But I don't see how my guild can go on raiding without every member being a Patron and spending money as needed on new souls...
    Surely folks already have spent the money on SL or they will just idle on Raptr to get a free copy before F2P arrives or you thinking longer term than 3 months time for recruitment?
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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragasm View Post
    This is my first MMO, so can you explain what it is? Is that "I pay so I get more goodies"?


    How many guilds are actually going to do this? Just curious. If they have the gear and pull the DPS, and we have someone else who can defile, than who is stopping them?
    If they aren't subscribed, they will get less marks. Which means they will get gear more slowly. Which will hold them back. If they don't buy the new souls, it depends on the case I suppose. For Rogues, Tactician is required for basically every rogue who raids. For Defiler you only need one. For Tempest, every warrior needs it. For Harbinger, I guess its optional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Intim View Post
    Surely folks already have spent the money on SL or they will just idle on Raptr to get a free copy before F2P arrives or you thinking longer term than 3 months time for recruitment?
    Long term. We'll be fine for now as long as not many quit.
    Last edited by Dunharrow; 05-15-2013 at 11:07 AM.

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    Ascendant lol r u mad's Avatar
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    It's whatever to me, the new raid content is like 6 months away. I wouldn't be surprised to see permanent, buyable stat upgrades by then when all the new MMO's come out

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    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    How much will a few free to players hurt? I doubt they won't buy the SL souls and whatever else comes in the future, but I doubt the 15% extra marks will matter. People geared up fast now, how important will 15% extra be? I'm in a 2/4 1/5 guild excuse my noobness.


    And how will you prove it? Trion has yet to give us a way to prove who is a Patron and who is a free to player.
    The only way that someone from Cluster 2 is actually as bad as you all say is if they started playing this game in 2.3 (Free to Play launch).

    Proud officer and Mage class lead of <Zombies>

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol r u mad View Post
    It's whatever to me, the new raid content is like 6 months away. I wouldn't be surprised to see permanent, buyable stat upgrades by then when all the new MMO's come out
    How much REX do you think I should charge applicants as a processing fee? Or should it just be a membership fee like a country club? Or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragasm View Post
    How much will a few free to players hurt? I doubt they won't buy the SL souls and whatever else comes in the future, but I doubt the 15% extra marks will matter. People geared up fast now, how important will 15% extra be? I'm in a 2/4 1/5 guild excuse my noobness.


    And how will you prove it? Trion has yet to give us a way to prove who is a Patron and who is a free to player.
    I'll make them pay a lot of REX to the guild bank, to prove they can pay.
    Last edited by Dunharrow; 05-15-2013 at 11:11 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    Its obvious that Patron Status and store purchases will be mandatory for serious raiding guilds who want to progress at semi-fast rates.

    I am the GM of Negative Ghostrider, and by no means is my guild hardcore. I was even snubbed by a Rift podcast for not being hardcore enough. But I don't see how my guild can go on raiding without every member being a Patron and spending money as needed on new souls, raid currency, gear, boosts, etc.

    Personally, I don't mind doing this. I'm single and have a good job and I'll either pay what is needed to win or quit the game entirely. But its going to be hard on some people in my guild (students, taking care of family illness, etc) whenever new forced purchases come down the pike. These would be things like new souls.

    Can you imagine trying to progress on Matriarch if your rogues didn't have the Tactician soul? Can you imagine tanks trying to survive Crucia breath without a Defiler in the raid?

    The game may not be Pay2Win, but it will definitely be Pay2Raid. Or at least Pay2NotSuck. So, guess I'll be adding some new required documentation on my guild's application:

    Can you afford to raid? Maybe I'll even force people to fork over some REX before they can join. Nothing proves ability to pay like a membership fee.

    Hooray.

    P.S. Check our my latest blog post, Free to Fail. F2P might be good for Rift, but Devs have some 'splainin to do.
    I can't even...

    If I was part of any guild that did this, I'd quit. Immediately.

    This is a stupid argument, there is no good reason why any guild would require a patron sub. Extra marks are nice but not required. Souls aren't exactly a dime a dozen. We have 9. We'd have to pay for new souls in an expansion anyway, even if this wasn't f2p now.

    THEY WERE ALREADY FORCED PURCHASES.

    Now that it's piecemeal, you want to be all dramatic?

    Only a fraction of a mmo's player base is hardcore. Those guilds are free to set whatever requirements they want on their raiders. The vast majority of casual gamers are free to give the hardcore guilds a middle finger.

    This argument of yours is flawed. And if you are seriously promoting the idea that guilds should only recruit based on who can pay....please get out of my game.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Fragasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rythandil View Post
    This argument of yours is flawed. And if you are seriously promoting the idea that guilds should only recruit based on who can pay....please get out of my game.
    It's his opinion and it is a valid one. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean he should quit. You don't have to play with him.

    He wants a successful guild raidwise and if he wants to do it, all the power to him. Will his guild capitalize on the free to players? Doubt it. But he still runs a semi - successful raiding guild. Better than most for a 'casual' guild.
    The only way that someone from Cluster 2 is actually as bad as you all say is if they started playing this game in 2.3 (Free to Play launch).

    Proud officer and Mage class lead of <Zombies>

  13. #13
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rythandil View Post
    I can't even...

    If I was part of any guild that did this, I'd quit. Immediately.
    You're already part of a guild that does this. They require you to be subscribed to be in their guild. Once it goes F2P, I'll still require my members to be subscribed, but it will be much harder to prove.

    Now that its piecemeal you want to be all dramatic?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunharrow View Post
    Its obvious that Patron Status and store purchases will be mandatory for serious raiding guilds who want to progress at semi-fast rates.

    I am the GM of Negative Ghostrider, and by no means is my guild hardcore. I was even snubbed by a Rift podcast for not being hardcore enough. But I don't see how my guild can go on raiding without every member being a Patron and spending money as needed on new souls, raid currency, gear, boosts, etc.

    Personally, I don't mind doing this. I'm single and have a good job and I'll either pay what is needed to win or quit the game entirely. But its going to be hard on some people in my guild (students, taking care of family illness, etc) whenever new forced purchases come down the pike. These would be things like new souls.

    Can you imagine trying to progress on Matriarch if your rogues didn't have the Tactician soul? Can you imagine tanks trying to survive Crucia breath without a Defiler in the raid?

    The game may not be Pay2Win, but it will definitely be Pay2Raid. Or at least Pay2NotSuck. So, guess I'll be adding some new required documentation on my guild's application:

    Can you afford to raid? Maybe I'll even force people to fork over some REX before they can join. Nothing proves ability to pay like a membership fee.

    Hooray.

    P.S. Check our my latest blog post, Free to Fail. F2P might be good for Rift, but Devs have some 'splainin to do.
    I personally don't see this is a big deal at all. Granted I, too, have a good job and can afford any purchases. However, I don't see a bonus to marks as a requirement for raiding. For example, let's take Frozen Eclipse stones as they currently are where you get four per boss. Let's assume you get 1 more stone for being a subscriber. The cheapest piece of raid gear is 91 stones. 91 / 4 = 23 boss encounters required before you can purchase this piece of gear. Now assume that Patrons will receive a bonus stone for each boss. 91 / 5 = 19 boss encounters required before you can purchase this piece of gear. You're telling me that it should be "required" for prospective raiders to be able to purchase the cheapest possible piece of raid gear 4 bosses sooner? That seems fairly ridiculous to me. To put this in perspective:

    1) Should it be "required" that everyone has an Android smartphone with Rift Mobile installed so they can win Frozen Eclipse Stones from the hourly games?

    2) Should it be "required", now that stones are available from dungeon dailies, that everyone must ensure they never lose a dungeon daily to being capped (already having 7)?

    3) Should it be "required", that all raiders do the dailies in Ashora and Steppes of Infinity each day?

    4) Should it be "required" that a minimum number of Onslaughts be completed per day by each member?

    5) Should it be "required" that all Carnages in Ashora, Steppes of Infinity, Morban, and Kingsward be completed prior to being able to raid?

    6) Should it be "required" that all members complete a minimum number of zone events per day?

    As far as we know, this "bonus to token drops" that comes with being a Patron won't apply to everything (it will most likely just apply to stones from bosses but we'll see). The only way I could see it being justified to "require" Patron status would be if the bonus to stones applied to all of the above.
    Moved on from Rift due to: Rift's PvP being a mindless, skilless zerg that has been and will continue to be perpetuated and reinforced :: A horribly optimized engine :: My personal distaste for F2P (already heading down the P2W path) after giving it a fair shake. Rift is an exceptional MMO by an overachieving development team that unfortunately is ruined by a few personally show-stopping issues.

  15. #15
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synovia View Post
    I personally don't see this is a big deal at all. Granted I, too, have a good job and can afford any purchases.
    Stopped reading here. You can stay.

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