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Thread: Soul Identification

  1. #31
    Rift Chaser Scythras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbringer View Post
    Because your judging me based upon the build I happen to be wearing while solo, which may have no bearing on what I intend you use while actually in a group.

    Why the h3ll would I want to wear a glass cannon build while running across the countryside to get to a dungeon? It would make more sense to use a lower dps, more survivable build, one where I can simply take a few hits as I run past the outdoor mobs, and then change to glass cannon mode before we start.

    Not sufficiently adept because I'm changing soles? How do you know what my skills are? You are making the assumption that since I am wearing a solo build while LFG that I spend most of my time solo and don't know how to play a group build? No, what it means is, I'm not going to sit around and twiddle my thumbs just because I'm alone. I'm going to go do something constructive.

    Personally, I have years of experience playing in every imaginable role. Puller, CC, healer, tank, melee dps, magic dps, pet classes, kiting, I've done them all.. Of course, the only possible way your going to know how good I am at my role is to play with me, inspecting my solo build won't convey that information.
    Agreed. There's no point in being able to see someone's build if they can completely switch it in 2 seconds. And just because someone has a good build doesn't mean they are a good player, and just because someone has a bad build doesn't mean they are a bad player. Hopefully this issue will work itself out once the game is launched. I honestly don't think it's that big of a deal. Hopefully rifts and other outdoor stuff will bring players together to the point where almost everyone has a regular group to play with and this wont be a problem at all.

  2. #32
    Telaran Blamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbringer View Post
    Because your judging me based upon the build I happen to be wearing while solo, which may have no bearing on what I intend you use while actually in a group.

    Why the h3ll would I want to wear a glass cannon build while running across the countryside to get to a dungeon? It would make more sense to use a lower dps, more survivable build, one where I can simply take a few hits as I run past the outdoor mobs, and then change to glass cannon mode before we start.

    Not sufficiently adept because I'm changing soles? How do you know what my skills are? You are making the assumption that since I am wearing a solo build while LFG that I spend most of my time solo and don't know how to play a group build? No, what it means is, I'm not going to sit around and twiddle my thumbs just because I'm alone. I'm going to go do something constructive.

    Personally, I have years of experience playing in every imaginable role. Puller, CC, healer, tank, melee dps, magic dps, pet classes, kiting, I've done them all.. Of course, the only possible way your going to know how good I am at my role is to play with me, inspecting my solo build won't convey that information.
    I think it's great that you know how to play, games certainly need more knowledgeable players. While this is an open discussion, I can't but help to think that you are thinking that I am posting directly at you which is furthest from the truth.

    Again, while it's obvious that some people are touchy about their specs, I think it's more useful then not to be able to see more specifically how someone is spec'ed out. I would prefer to see 'Level 40 Inquisitor' than a 'Level 40 Cleric'.

  3. #33
    Rift Chaser Scythras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohplax View Post
    I think it's great that you know how to play, games certainly need more knowledgeable players. While this is an open discussion, I can't but help to think that you are thinking that I am posting directly at you which is furthest from the truth.

    Again, while it's obvious that some people are touchy about their specs, I think it's more useful then not to be able to see more specifically how someone is spec'ed out. I would prefer to see 'Level 40 Inquisitor' than a 'Level 40 Cleric'.
    Really? I'd prefer to see "level 40 cleric" because that implies that he can switch to whatever cleric soul the group might need him to be, which most often would be a healer. "Level 40 Inquisitor" is about the equivalent to saying "Level 40 shadow priest" in WoW, which implies that they are only willing to play that one soul, which is a pure DPS/debuff cleric soul, and not willing to switch to healing even if the group needs a healer.

    What I am hoping with this game is that people who like to DPS as say, a cleric or a warrior, wont mind switching to a tank or healer for an hour or two to run an instance because it's so easy to switch. They don't have to go to town and dump a bunch of money to respec, they just have to click one button and wait a couple seconds and it's done.

  4. #34
    Telaran Blamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scythras View Post
    Really? I'd prefer to see "level 40 cleric" because that implies that he can switch to whatever cleric soul the group might need him to be, which most often would be a healer. "Level 40 Inquisitor" is about the equivalent to saying "Level 40 shadow priest" in WoW, which implies that they are only willing to play that one soul, which is a pure DPS/debuff cleric soul, and not willing to switch to healing even if the group needs a healer.

    What I am hoping with this game is that people who like to DPS as say, a cleric or a warrior, wont mind switching to a tank or healer for an hour or two to run an instance because it's so easy to switch. They don't have to go to town and dump a bunch of money to respec, they just have to click one button and wait a couple seconds and it's done.
    Perhaps you have more faith in people then I do and I am just too cynical. It is my opinion most people are too close minded especially in MMO where the greed factor is extreme. Each to his own, but I learned some good things in this thread!

  5. #35
    Rift Chaser Scythras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohplax View Post
    Perhaps you have more faith in people then I do and I am just too cynical. It is my opinion most people are too close minded especially in MMO where the greed factor is extreme. Each to his own, but I learned some good things in this thread!
    No, you're right, maybe I am but I honestly have no foresight into how the community in this game will act. I typically (well, exclusively if given the option) play on roleplaying servers and, particularly in the opening months of a game, I find the community to be pretty mature and accommodating. That being said, I have absolutely no reservations with asking someone to leave the group or giving them a boot if they choose not to take on a certain needed role when they have the option to. If the group needs a tank and you're the only one who can tank but you flat out refuse just because you're being selfish then you can find a different group to go with.

  6. #36
    Rift Chaser Automaticzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caracarn View Post
    This is not entirely true. We will be able to save 3-4 specs and change them out of combat. So every player will have to have at least 1 spec available that will bring in the core competence of his calling. A tank with 3-4 damage, experimental and fun builds will still not be helpful for a dungeon group.
    This assumes one big thing, that a person won't have come to tank with three different soul builds all built towards DPS.

    The short answer is: It's going to be a problem.

    The long answer is: You're going to need to talk to those you're running with when you set up your pug. Maybe instead of a single tank, you have two tank/DPS hybrids sharing the load. Instead of a single healer, you have four dps/support guys spreading it out. With a more fluid class system will come more flexibility, which means more planning on your part. This means you may run into that 'healer' who can't heal and wipes you. But it also means you may run into a new built that will pleasantly surprise you.

    With choice comes the ability to fail.

    Most MMO forums wars are over the Game vs World divide. Which side are you on?

  7. #37
    Plane Walker Perros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scythras View Post
    Really? I'd prefer to see "level 40 cleric" because that implies that he can switch to whatever cleric soul the group might need him to be, which most often would be a healer. "Level 40 Inquisitor" is about the equivalent to saying "Level 40 shadow priest" in WoW, which implies that they are only willing to play that one soul, which is a pure DPS/debuff cleric soul, and not willing to switch to healing even if the group needs a healer.

    What I am hoping with this game is that people who like to DPS as say, a cleric or a warrior, wont mind switching to a tank or healer for an hour or two to run an instance because it's so easy to switch. They don't have to go to town and dump a bunch of money to respec, they just have to click one button and wait a couple seconds and it's done.
    If players choose to be dps Warrior they shouldn't be expected to switch to tank soul. If a group needs a tank, they should "lf tank", not a Warrior, if a group needs a healer they should "lf healer" not a cleric. If a dps Warrior responds to a "lf tank" shout, then he better has the right soul and gear though. My expectation is that any generic healer/tank/cc/dps soul will be sufficient for a good fraction of the leveling content, yes, I expect that the game will be that easy. Only content that is usually done by organized guilds will require very specialized roles.

  8. #38
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perros View Post
    I expect that the game will be that easy. Only content that is usually done by organized guilds will require very specialized roles.
    I agree. I imagine most questing groups will not require that much depth in class requirements; the basic callings should serve just fine. Allbeit, there are plenty of "professional" gamers out there that want to maximize the potential of every small group (more power to 'em), but I think most casual gamers will be happy to look for group augmentation by calling. Just like in all games, you need to try out different people and keep up with the ones who do it best. Just what the "Friends" list is for!

  9. #39
    Rift Chaser Scythras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perros View Post
    If players choose to be dps Warrior they shouldn't be expected to switch to tank soul. If a group needs a tank, they should "lf tank", not a Warrior, if a group needs a healer they should "lf healer" not a cleric. If a dps Warrior responds to a "lf tank" shout, then he better has the right soul and gear though. My expectation is that any generic healer/tank/cc/dps soul will be sufficient for a good fraction of the leveling content, yes, I expect that the game will be that easy. Only content that is usually done by organized guilds will require very specialized roles.
    Well yes, obviously I would LF tank instead of LF warrior, I was merely saying at least if you were to get a warrior they have the option to switch easily in case you do end up needing a tank. I wouldn't LF a specific soul, like ONLY take a paladin and not a reaver to be a tank or anything like that, but looking for a tank in general would get you replies from other callings as well, which would make it easier to find a tank in general. I think a lot of rogues are going to think it's cool that they can tank and will be more than willing to.

    Now if it were the other way around, say someone was saying "DPS warrior LFG" and we needed a tank, I would ask him first if he was willing and able to tank, and if he refused I would look for someone else. But in this game I don't think we'd run into the problem as much with finding tanks and whatnot, simply because it's so easy to switch. If a DPS warrior was looking for a group in any other game, you probably wouldn't ask him to go blow a bunch of money and respec just for one instance, but if it's free and instant I don't see why it would be a big deal, other than the fact that the guy just doesn't want to do it because he wants to DPS, rather than not wanting to do it because it costs a lot of money and takes time.
    Last edited by Scythras; 09-17-2010 at 10:50 AM.

  10. #40
    Plane Touched
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    With all the specialties offered by the numerous souls available, perhaps it would be very hard to go beyond a brief character level indication of some sort, but it would be nice to know what level you are up against or are trying to recruit for a raid. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

  11. #41
    Shadowlander Gequ's Avatar
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    1st point... the game should be challenging pvp wise. To see what class your facing somewhat makes it easier to fight against. Part of the fun is the challenge of nto knowing.

    As far as grouping goes, I don't know, personally, having the perfect group will never happen unless you group with friends. One of the things I loved about EQ grouping was you grouped with what was available. It took skills to kill mobs while we were grinding out the exp. Sadly, WoW changed the concept of grouping and made it so people feel they must have <insert class> to do anything. So what is the warrior is a dps warrior... just means you need to kite, root, etc... makes the game challenging and fun.
    Gequ The original GQ! (also gone by Geque, Geques, Geqs, Geqz, etc etc etc...)
    EQ Emarr server, DAoC Alb/ Galahad, EQ2 Guk server, WoW Silvermoon, WAR Volkmar
    and any other MMO I played.... I lack originality!

  12. #42
    Rift Disciple Thantoes's Avatar
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    God help us,, the freaken Min/Maxers already screaming they won't pug..
    Pugs are one of the most interesting ways to play.. *Note* you don't have to be able to run a zone in 2.4 minutes. Relax, look around a bit and not worry about not playing with anyone who isn't "L33T"
    I play games like this as a hobby, to relax, Not as a second job.

  13. #43
    Prophet of Telara Ravenwolf's Avatar
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    If they add a tooltip I wonder if it'll say all 3 of your classes (if you have 3) like "Druid/Shaman/Warden"

  14. #44
    Telaran Blamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenwolf View Post
    If they add a tooltip I wonder if it'll say all 3 of your classes (if you have 3) like "Druid/Shaman/Warden"
    I'd like that or anything other than the baseline calling showing.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbringer View Post
    I am very particular about you knowing which souls I am spec'ed in without you talking to me first.

    If you want this information, ask me, I will tell you. Otherwise, you will just have to wait until I start casting.

    The only reason someone is going to want to know my souls after I tell them which role I am prepared to fill is if they are looking for a reason to exclude me. Not only that, but they are looking to exclude me based upon my currently active build, regardless of what else I may have available.

    Heavens forbid the solo build I have active when you inspect me does not conform to your grouping expectations.
    No . . .it's more likely they want to know how your class will fit in with the group. I like to know what class the tank and healer are in most groups in any given MMO that I've played. It's just nice to know what to expect, and to know how to best complement them.

    People get so paranoid, geez.

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