So how long before Rift goes completely topless?

[intrinsc]

I welcome the opportunity of wiping to a topless demon babe and/or CL-0N3 for hours.

[Byona]

How are we supposed to avoid waves and such when we're too busy staring at the boss boobs? Topless boss got to be the hardest boss in the history of MMORPG, just sayin.

[Zengar Zombolt]

If you want a game that really goes over the top without actually going full nudity, just go over to TERA.

Tbh, Rift has got to be one of the most tame MMOs I've seen in awhile. With WoW you have pretty much every female having crazy proportions (like female Draenei look like they can barely stand without falling over one way or another). I *facepalmed* when I saw SW:TOR was similar with their females. Guild Wars 2 has a lot of skimpy clothing from what I remember, and... yeah... there's a lot of other MMOs that draw more attention to their female models. Rift may have some risque pieces (including pants that basically look like a pair of underwear and that's it), and there may be some eyebrow-raising stuff here and there, but... it's really not that bad imo.

[Maverick827]

I *facepalmed* when I saw SW:TOR was similar with their females.

I facepalmed when I read this. Got any examples?

[Treiale]

I think Rift mostly does a decent job of not sexualising women too much, at least compared to other games. I like boobs as much as the next person, and trust me I am all for the occasional scantily dressed demon trying to remove my skull with her bare hands.

The problem for me is that I'm a girl. I get bombarded by this kind of stuff all the time. There's a cultural message out there in western culture, and that almost always is boobs or go away. If a guy does something cool, good for him, he's smart/skilled. If a girl does something cool, yes, good for her, she's smart/skilled, but did you see her hair? Did you see what she was wearing? Get back in the kitchen and make me a sandwich! Moar Boobs!

The problem isn't isolated to in-game. The reason many of us are getting upset about it is because it's just part of a huge message that we get all the time - first and foremost you're a girl, and when you're a girl we're mostly interested in how you look, and the less clothing the better, because lol did you really think you're worth more than boobs and a shapely bottom? Having a powerful woman as a boss is AWESOME, but when she's strutting around half naked it makes it seem like she only rose to the top because she has a great rack, and it reinforces the message that the only possible contribution we could make to society is our sexuality.
If you're a guy, I don't expect you to really understand how it feels, because unless you've lived it you can't possibly know what it's like to be judged on boobs first and acheivements second, just like I don't know what pressures men in society face - I imagine it must suck to be expected to be emotionally distant and brawny, but I don't actually know how that feels. I also don't know how it feels to be considered the 'stronger' sex, or to be judged solely on what I've done rather than what I look like.

The point is, a little bit of sexualised characters in the game? Sweet, bring it on! But when every second female model's greatest asset is a pair of boobs, it's really tiring. Does the lesser air elemental REALLY need to be a female? Why couldn't you just have that model without the breasts, when that would still look cool? Why not have those archers wear reasonable clothing - she's an archer, mobility isn't a huge issue, they're not main characters so there's no personality to be gained from it, and tbh if my bodyguards showed up wearing that they'd be fired before their left boob could jiggle. The only possible reason those archers are scantily clad women is because it's sexy... and because men consider themselves the majority, we get boob instead of a delicious display of men in only a cod-piece.

Now, if there happen to be air elementals that have a bulge rather than boobs, and mobs that have man-archers oiled up with their abs and hip-bones on display, I'll be satisfied and won't complain. I'll be thrilled if there's a male boss who is just as sexualised as Crucia because I am in serious need of some proper eye candy. But until then... damnit guys, enough is enough. Sexualise everyone or put your genitals away.

(Also I don't want to hear the argument that 'men are displayed as more muscular than the average man so omg we're being objectified too!!!!' because no. Some women might find that sexy, sure, but there is a HUGE difference between 'Look at my muscles, I'm so powerful!' and 'Look at my boobs, I'm so sexy!'. If you can't see why, here's a hint: One is associated with agency and control, and one is associated with being an object to be handled.)

[Raen Ryong]

Stuff

You make very good points, although I'd like to make the argument that for Crucia and perhaps some of her creations (bearing in mind she is all about manipulation and mental control), sexuality is a weapon and a tool of agency/control just like muscles are on a male character.

That logic still doesn't excuse Shyla Starhearth for instance though. Asha Catari is a great example of a female character who is fairly attractive but without being sexualised, and has a powerful presence.

EDIT: I also don't see a problem with the air elemental because it's not meant to be explicit at all, and the feminine form has this fantastical mystique to it that the masculine form just doesn't possess in the same way. This may be my socialisation talking on my part though.

[Questoften]

Whats wrong with eye candy guys, dose the female anatomy offend you when shown to the equvlent of a swim suit model? All this stuff is pg and In my opnion and I find these posts silly. I mean what are people like: Oh no cleavage, run for the hills, its a attractive female in a bikini type outfit! Better be sure you never go to the beach you could be scarred for life at all the wonton deprevity.

[Gardy]

I think Rift mostly does a decent job of not sexualising women too much, at least compared to other games. I like boobs as much as the next person, and trust me I am all for the occasional scantily dressed demon trying to remove my skull with her bare hands.

The problem for me is that I'm a girl. I get bombarded by this kind of stuff all the time. There's a cultural message out there in western culture, and that almost always is boobs or go away. If a guy does something cool, good for him, he's smart/skilled. If a girl does something cool, yes, good for her, she's smart/skilled, but did you see her hair? Did you see what she was wearing? Get back in the kitchen and make me a sandwich! Moar Boobs!

The problem isn't isolated to in-game. The reason many of us are getting upset about it is because it's just part of a huge message that we get all the time - first and foremost you're a girl, and when you're a girl we're mostly interested in how you look, and the less clothing the better, because lol did you really think you're worth more than boobs and a shapely bottom? Having a powerful woman as a boss is AWESOME, but when she's strutting around half naked it makes it seem like she only rose to the top because she has a great rack, and it reinforces the message that the only possible contribution we could make to society is our sexuality.
If you're a guy, I don't expect you to really understand how it feels, because unless you've lived it you can't possibly know what it's like to be judged on boobs first and acheivements second, just like I don't know what pressures men in society face - I imagine it must suck to be expected to be emotionally distant and brawny, but I don't actually know how that feels. I also don't know how it feels to be considered the 'stronger' sex, or to be judged solely on what I've done rather than what I look like.

The point is, a little bit of sexualised characters in the game? Sweet, bring it on! But when every second female model's greatest asset is a pair of boobs, it's really tiring. Does the lesser air elemental REALLY need to be a female? Why couldn't you just have that model without the breasts, when that would still look cool? Why not have those archers wear reasonable clothing - she's an archer, mobility isn't a huge issue, they're not main characters so there's no personality to be gained from it, and tbh if my bodyguards showed up wearing that they'd be fired before their left boob could jiggle. The only possible reason those archers are scantily clad women is because it's sexy... and because men consider themselves the majority, we get boob instead of a delicious display of men in only a cod-piece.

Now, if there happen to be air elementals that have a bulge rather than boobs, and mobs that have man-archers oiled up with their abs and hip-bones on display, I'll be satisfied and won't complain. I'll be thrilled if there's a male boss who is just as sexualised as Crucia because I am in serious need of some proper eye candy. But until then... damnit guys, enough is enough. Sexualise everyone or put your genitals away.

(Also I don't want to hear the argument that 'men are displayed as more muscular than the average man so omg we're being objectified too!!!!' because no. Some women might find that sexy, sure, but there is a HUGE difference between 'Look at my muscles, I'm so powerful!' and 'Look at my boobs, I'm so sexy!'. If you can't see why, here's a hint: One is associated with agency and control, and one is associated with being an object to be handled.)

A fair post Treiale but you have not quite grasped a core message.

I repeat your post in full because there is a clue within it you have a fair amount of experience in dealing with the media, and you are possibly some type of person in RL who is in the public domain, but please don't dismiss what I have to say.

The 1st example I will use are female TV presenters, everything from the weather, through to news and current politics, and games/entertainment - ALL NOT designed as X rated. One simple fact is that many female TV presenters are both attractive and choose to wear short skirts showing a fair amount of leg. This means on screen they go through many contortions designed to prevent us seeing too much........ however many web pages exist highlighting bad wardrobe moments - and there is no real doubt the overall impact of this show is designed to enhance viewing stats. But.....in a simple world they would wear long skirts or trousers.

The 2nd example are female politicians who get almost universally judged on both looks/femininity ahead in some cases of party allegiance or ability. Examples here include the French Government Minister, and the UK female MP/author who has recently resigned her seat (she posed in a Mens Mag)

The 3rd example are some school girls who via peer pressure seem to compete in terms of who is wearing the shortest uniform skirt - and that is disturbing and dangerous in the wrong environment

The 4th example are male Olympic competitors, there have been mass media reports of attractive females wishing to "feel" the mens muscles in London clubs.............(PS I am male and useless at all sports.......deep deep sigh chuckle)

My main point is human sexuality is very very much part of both the human state and selection/desirability - there is within reason no harm in that providing it does not cross socially acceptable lines, and to deny it is to deny our humanity

[Bluebell]

Whats wrong with eye candy guys, dose the female anatomy offend you when shown to the equvlent of a swim suit model? All this stuff is pg and In my opnion and I find these posts silly. I mean what are people like: Oh no cleavage, run for the hills, its a attractive female in a bikini type outfit! Better be sure you never go to the beach you could be scarred for life at all the wonton deprevity.

If you read what people write then this might not be a mystery to you, and you can get rid of your ignornace ;) Let me give you a clue: I am bisexual, so no, the beauty of the female body is not what is troubling me.

[Ianto Jones]

i realise rift's premise is based on time travel but that doesn't mean we've got to start plucking 16th century Puritan garbage out of the past

[Neo Omni]

i realise rift's premise is based on time travel but that doesn't mean we've got to start plucking 16th century Puritan garbage out of the past

Nor do we need Biblical era Hedonism for that matter.

[darkeden]

Nor do we need Biblical era Hedonism for that matter.

Luckily for us all Rift is not anywhere near such a thing. You might try Tera.

[Chandelle]

lol i imagine that OP's eyes would explode or fall out if he starts playing TERA or Lula wet sexy empire :P

[Treiale]

Reply Goes Here

I actually don't mind Crucia because it fits with her story. I'm not against having sexualised characters at all, and if it fits with their personality I think it's great. It bothers me with lesser characters (particularly no-name mobs who are only there to kill things and be killed) because it doesn't add anything. Maybe if it's a situation where the less the warrior wears, the more they're considered to be strong and fearsome, or some other reason. Boobs just for the sake of boobs isn't so cool.
The air elemental bothers me because I don't think there's a reason for it to be humanoid at all, let alone female. It's a lesser concern than those mobs in the preview, it still just grates on me a bit. I also really like the little faces on the current air elementals, so I'll miss them!
I think the masculine form can be just as beautiful and mysterious as the female form, when you draw it the right way.

Another Reply Here

I agree to a point! Sexuality is very much a part of what humans are, and I think it's awesome. Sexuality for everyone except people who don't want it - they can have cake instead! Hooray!
In your examples, a lot of the behaviours are BECAUSE of the culture they happen in. I don't think young girls would compete for shortest skirt if our culture didn't applaud sexualising women so much. (I might be wrong, maybe girls would still do so. But truly, short skirts are annoying when you can't even pick up a pencil without your panda underpants being on display for everyone.)
I should say that I don't think sexualising in general is bad - it's pretty natural, I'm as guilty of it as anyone else. I think, though, when we put down one group of people as only being good for sex and sexual things, we're doing a disservice to that group that doesn't do anybody any good. In this case, it just happens that women are the group in question - we sexualise them more than men, and it's a problem because we do it so much that women don't really have a choice - we either run with it and wear short skirts, or we try to fight it and inevitably get judged on our appearance for not being as sexualised as everyone else. I'm not fighting against sexuality, I'm fighting against the lose-lose situation women are in.
I don't think Telara would lose anything if those scantily clad random mobs weren't scantily clad, but our female players might gain a lot if they wore clothing that was a little bit more functional.

[Zaros]

Nor do we need Biblical era Hedonism for that matter.

You can't honestly think a bikini is hedonistic, right?