25LikesSo to put it in the most basic of words.
Nothing has really happened yet, somethings that have happened are different, anything can happen and everything is just speculation.
And Conquest doesn't take place in our timeline.
So to put it in the most basic of words.
Nothing has really happened yet, somethings that have happened are different, anything can happen and everything is just speculation.
And Conquest doesn't take place in our timeline.
Hmm guardians and defiants were somewhat at war with eachother after the fall of Port Scion, its just that the Rifts etc were a bigger threath.Originally Posted by Kobayashi345
Technically we are still at war, but its more like USA vs USSR in the time of the cold war(not entirely, but cant think of a better comparison in our world)
The Defiant startzone is a different timeline(we suspect), the guardian one isnt(you just dissapeared for 20years)
Conquest and the 10-man raids all happen in different timelines, WF's and 20man raids are in our timeline.
and indeed: everything can happen, and all we can do is speculate. Isnt talking about lore great xD
Last edited by NearioNL; 07-18-2012 at 04:12 AM.
Sotiria, GM of Fade Legion.. Founder of Covenant(Argent)
pew pew rogue
4/4, 2/4, 1/5
It's not uncommon for religious zealots to want to wipe those outside of or in opposition to their belief system off the face of the planet (see: Crusades, abortion clinic bombings, and 9/11). To then have those folks turn around and fight back is kind of a given. Aside from the Ascendant thing, and of course the time-travel, it's pretty standard humanoid stuff.
World PvP is the reason to maintain factions in Rift. I get that you're not on a PvP server and you probably don't experience a lot of it, but on Seastone it's quite common for there to be all-out brawls over zone event bosses (we like it that way over here).
I do, however, agree that race shouldn't dictate faction, since "Defiant" technically only indicates you view technology as greater than the gods, and "Guardian" technically only indicates you believe the gods can/will save everybody and/or that following them should be preserved.
Where's the "Defect" button? What if I want to eschew technology in favor of a "higher calling"? What if I was born Mathosian and my whole family was slaughtered by a water invasion so I'm angry with the gods and want to swap sides? What if I don't give a hoot about lore but think dwarves are really, really adorable and wish I could play one and still avoid all the butterflies and cotton candy on the Guardian side*? (*true)
Cross your fingers that the ability for three-faction instanced PvP will maybe someday in the not-so-distant future equate to either a) a defect option or b) a third non-tech, non-religious faction option. After all, the world is getting three times bigger..... maybe there's room for a new home base.
Last edited by efitall; 07-18-2012 at 05:22 AM.
Actually that wasn't the "real" future, it was an alternate future that the Defiants Ascended came from. There also was an alternate future where the Guardians defeated Regulos (so sayeth Poor Tom).
I hope they get rid of factions too. As I suggested in another thread what they should do is go with the concept that all shards are alternate realities. PVP shards are at "war" (kept as they are now), PVE shards are in a sliver where there's a truce so you can group up with other factions; Warfronts can be explained as being "black ops" groups that would still clash in the borders (and Conquest of course is an alternate reality itself).
Last edited by wayne62682; 07-18-2012 at 06:13 AM.
Edit isn't long enough -__-
I think that idea (shards as slivers) could appease both people and be a good "test" to see if people actually care about PVP and World PVP; if folks flock to the PVP shards, it means PVP is good and people like the factions, if they move away from PVP shards, it means factions are a bad idea and are in this game only because it was directly meant to be a better WoW than WoW, a game that is unfortunately built around factions and "taking sides".
Also interesting to note is the Guardians in the Defiant area have different colored armor than the normal Guardians, lending more credence to the fact that the Defiant area isn't the true future without Defiant Ascended, it's one of possible futures, no different than the timelines that Drowned Halls, Fall of Lantern Hook or Primeval Feast are in. The Defiant Ascended being sent back to the "present" reality altered the future outcome of this history, it didn't "prevent" history from happening because that history may or may not have happened at all - for all we know the present day could have been the "good" future where the Guardians defeated the Defiant AND Regulos, or it could have ended up as Drowned Halls' future, or maybe a future where it was Laethys or Crucia who conquered Telara. We don't know because the timeline has been altered now.
Disclaimer: I play both sides and like them equally.It's not uncommon for religious zealots to want to wipe those outside of or in opposition to their belief system off the face of the planet (see: Crusades, abortion clinic bombings, and 9/11). To then have those folks turn around and fight back is kind of a given. Aside from the Ascendant thing, and of course the time-travel, it's pretty standard humanoid stuff.
zeal·ot/ˈzelət/
Noun:
A person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.
To me the Guardians don't seem any less like zealots than the Defiants (Jebiah is crazy for sure). Out of all the characters on both factions, Orphiel seems the craziest to me and is definately a techno-zealot. He was willing to aid Aedraxis, knowing it could fracture the ward in order to advance technology. He steals people's souls and "washes" them for his use, continues to push the limits of the ward in places like Stonefield, etc, etc. (In a way that's what makes him cool...)
In reality they have a petty disagreement caused by both sides and both sides are equally at fault.
None of them (as of right now) are willing to accept they're wrong and if things continue as is both will die if they can't reach an agreement.
Both of them are being stupid as it stands and both of them can't see past their own ambitions to understand they need each other.
That's what made the game appealing to me. That they both seemed wrong and yet both arguments are semi-valid. Unlike the whole Horde/Alliance deal in that other game.
I am no PVP-er, but I would like to keep the 2 factions. I would even like to add a 3rd neutral faction, with everything in it that neutral means(questing for both other factions, being able to ally yourself with 1 of the 2, etc etc etc).
Having 2 factions is not just there for PVP. Altough the story of the game now completely runs around the planes and the battle agains the bloodstorm, it can easily shift towards a war between defiant and guardians, hopefuly with the earlier named neutral faction.
The only thing that could ally the Defiants and the Guardians is a common enemy, like we have now.
When they are defeated the major difference in ideology between the 2 factions will make it impossible to become truly 1 imo
Sotiria, GM of Fade Legion.. Founder of Covenant(Argent)
pew pew rogue
4/4, 2/4, 1/5
To each their own, I suppose. I personally despise PVP in all its forms, and I long for the day an MMO comes out and basically has zero PVP at all and refuses to cater to those people. I hate PVP for three major reasons:
1) It divides friendship; if I like Guardian and all my friends like Defiant, I'm forced to play alone or play a group I don't like - this is what happens to me in WoW because all my friends are Horde but I prefer Alliance, yet constantly go back to Horde just so I can play the game with friends.
2) PVPers are sometimes the most rude and arrogant people in the game, especially on PVP servers where they essentially grief people while spouting out "lol red = dead" as justification. Better players or not, the attitude of many PVPers (this applies mostly to WoW, I don't see it in Rift) just makes me want to punch them.
3) PVE abilities are always nerfed to balance them in PVP, leading to lots of issues where such-and-such ability goes from great to useless because PVPers whined that it oneshots them in battlegrounds, or that they can't kill X class when they use Y ability, so said ability is nerfed into the ground to compensate. This is especially frustrating in PVE games that seem to include PVP as a bone; I could understand it in a PVP game with some PVE content, but most MMOs focus on PVE yet still screw with PVE to balance the very minor part of the game (that being PVP).
Honestly I think the best way of dealing with PVP that I saw in an MMO was LOTRO; unless I'm mistaken you didn't have any concept of "world PVP" and PVP was limited to a specific area, but since there were totally different races for the PVP that you couldn't play in the normal game it never bled into nerfing of PVE abilities, or if it did there wasn't nearly as much complaining as there is in traditional faction-based MMOs.
As I said: I am NO pvp-erI do it very very rarely, and have much more enjoyment in PVE.
I dont have RL-friends who play Rift, the only RL-friend who is a gamer plays Swtor.
BUT
The argument that you should be able to play with Guardian friends(when you are defiant) is imo a non-argument. If you want to play together: roll the same faction.
When my mate still played Rift, I had a guardian specially to play with him and his wife.
Yes PVP-ers can be rude, so can PVE-ers and hell even RP-ers can be rude. Its not solely pvp-ers
Personally only really play on RP-servers, since that community is generally the nicest and most mature of the 3
And yes the nerfing you are right. but this is not the fault of the pvp-ers, but of the game-developer imo.
They make pvp with unbalanced classes, and they listen to those whining about it.
Either bring it out when fairly balanced, or say: This is it, take it or leave it.
for me 2 or 3 factions just is way more interesting to play, to read lore, etc etc. got nothing to do with pvp imo, its just makes the universe possible more interesting. thats why I would like a 3rd neutral faction, beside that I would always be in favor that factions are NOT tied to races. I would even go so far that I would like to see the ability to defect to the other side, or at least spy for them etc
Last edited by NearioNL; 07-18-2012 at 06:47 AM.
Sotiria, GM of Fade Legion.. Founder of Covenant(Argent)
pew pew rogue
4/4, 2/4, 1/5
how are both sides EQUALLY at fault? the Defiants pursue ancient forbidden Eth tech so they can meddle. It was a Defiant who pushed to use Eth tech that finally broke the ward and consumed port scion.
i think most if not all the blame is on the Defiants.
Bulwulf - Faeblight - Warrior
"The World Is Hollow, and I've Touched The Sky"
Because the Guardians didn't kill him, haha.
I guess I meant right now they're both to blame for what is going to happen.
And they both should know better if not now, eventually, that they are going to need each other.
I'm gonna +1 for the 'remove the factions' request.
Seriously. My Dwarf wants in on Meridian. You guys actually have a city there, and I'd like to hang with some Asha Catari. Not, kill. Cause, c'mon....Asha is cooler than Cyril. Let's not kid ourselves.
Anything that'd let me leave the glorified Lighthouse-On-Small-Rock, alson known as Lagtown, also known as Sanctum.
Also; please, race change. If there are no factions and this, Kelari. Kelari. Kelari.
Best race, evar.
Signed,
A former Defiant who was forced to re-roll Guardian to play with IRL friends.
Last edited by Shaedence; 07-18-2012 at 06:39 PM.
Shaedence - 57 Guardian Kelari Cleric - Threesprings (US-PvE)
Co-Leader of <Eternal Knights>
exactly, hence the elimination of faction restrictions
Bulwulf - Faeblight - Warrior
"The World Is Hollow, and I've Touched The Sky"
Speaking for my experience on Wolfsbane. Sanctum is 10x less "laggy" than Meridium. 22ish FPs in Sanctum, 12-15 in Meridian. And the constant "loading" screen in Meridian SUCKS.
Last edited by Kobayashi345; 07-18-2012 at 07:46 PM.
I agree with most of this post. I will differ on the PVP has "nothing" to do with factions. It is certainly not the only reason for having multiple factions as stated above. Having the option for World PVP adds an extra dimmension to gameplay for those who choose to take part. Very few activities in the open world are true challenges. I supose if a raid rift (or other activity) is attempted with much fewer characters it becomes more difficult, but it is still basically a "scripted" event.As I said: I am NO pvp-er
I dont have RL-friends who play Rift, the only RL-friend who is a gamer plays Swtor.
BUT
The argument that you should be able to play with Guardian friends(when you are defiant) is imo a non-argument. If you want to play together: roll the same faction.
When my mate still played Rift, I had a guardian specially to play with him and his wife.
Yes PVP-ers can be rude, so can PVE-ers and hell even RP-ers can be rude. Its not solely pvp-ers
Personally only really play on RP-servers, since that community is generally the nicest and most mature of the 3
And yes the nerfing you are right. but this is not the fault of the pvp-ers, but of the game-developer imo.
They make pvp with unbalanced classes, and they listen to those whining about it.
Either bring it out when fairly balanced, or say: This is it, take it or leave it.
for me 2 or 3 factions just is way more interesting to play, to read lore, etc etc. got nothing to do with pvp imo, its just makes the universe possible more interesting. thats why I would like a 3rd neutral faction, beside that I would always be in favor that factions are NOT tied to races. I would even go so far that I would like to see the ability to defect to the other side, or at least spy for them etc
Being able to face live, thinking RL players as opponents is a much more seat of the pants undertaking. It adds many layers of complexity to the world of Telara. The PVE servers currently allow the factions to indirectly help each other. Almost every zone invasion I have seen have a group from each faction hitting the same mobs and killing the same bosses. Somewhat the same thing as having two unmerged raid groups of the same faction. Unless someone forgets to turn off the "auto flag" button and tab-targets the wrong thing.... Then things could become interesting....
I haven't seen a compelling reason given to eliminate the option of World PVP. Allowing "instanced" cross grouping I can at least understand. Still, Trion has a current fix for that by shard hopping to a well populated new home.
P.S. I would be in full support of an "epic quest" chain to allow faction swaps to allow RL friends to have a way to play well established characters together. Not to mention it would add even more flavor to Telara.
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