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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Political correctness is killing this Forum

  1. #16
    Prophet of Telara TyrLith's Avatar
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    what i find funny is that you get warnings for censored words too.. ~~

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrLith View Post
    what i find funny is that you get warnings for censored words too.. ~~
    As is often said by moderators on LOTRO's forums and I suspect is Trion's view too: the profanity filter is NOT a license to use profanity, it's a defense for those who find it objectionable.

  3. #18
    Plane Walker Calmethar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elrar View Post
    So,

    RIFT is rated by the ESRB as T, for Teen. As policy, and out of respect for the guidelines set forth by industry standards, we like to keep language appropriate for the audiences who may be playing our game.

    Now you could argue that there are probably a lot of teenagers with worse mouths than adults - but the point is that we seek to create an environment that is welcoming to all.

    For an M rated game, ya never know, we might open the funnel a bit - but that's because we'd anticipate a different audience that, by and large, is more accustomed to vulgarity than not.

    I swear like a sailor sometimes, but only where appropriate - and this simply isn't one of those places.

    Thanks for understanding - if you have any questions about a specific moderation action Walsingham and our moderation team would be happy to assist, they provide our email address in the message explaining the infraction/warning. (Or if it's just a general inquiry just PM Walsingham directly)

    Cheers,
    Have to agree here, we can easily live without swearing being a part of the forum.

    I find it insulting starting every sentence with a "So" though. Could we censor that?

  4. #19
    Plane Touched Eryon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtyoldman View Post
    It’s not a class of people or Quality over quantity is about letting the person articulate in words that person wishes to express, not the words that you or I would want to say.
    Seebs response to this was spot on. Oddly apropos at the moment I read this as well since I had occasion to apply the very principle in counseling my daughter... Let me provide a little background on that as it's salient to this thread...

    I received a call from the Vice Principal for my daughters class to inform me that he had an incident with her being rather insubordinate when she confronted him. He related to me that she was insistent and used inappropriate language during their Discourse; "This is [Edit] ". After hearing more about the incident and the background to it I then had to address it with my child. In our household, we don't curse. Not even a little. So as a result when an expletive is uttered it causes a significant impact in the moment it occurs. It's not that I don't believe in the use of invectives when appropriate but I choose to limit the use to those moments truly deserving of it so that the impact of use fits the situation.

    However, High School and society at that level, inundates and inures such language through total immersion. I can understand the challenge in resisting it. When I spoke with my daughter, I asked her to tell me about the incident in her own words. After explaining it (and repeating the reported violation) without any thought for the context of her side of the conversation, I asked her how she would feel if someone approached her and spoke to her in the same way. She then admitted that she would feel threatened and become defensive. After that I could visually see the "light bulb" turn on as her expression changed.

    In our postings on this forum we don't have the luxury of seeing the impression that others have on what we write. So 'course corrections' in discussion are often painful and round about. Why, then, would we not choose to take a more moderate tone when we participate. Not to say that we should be dispassionate in out discourse, but rather that we give some thought to consideration to what we do put forth as well as what others write.

    The ability to communicate is not a limitation of class. That is something that is rooted at an individual level. One does not need an expansive vocabulary to be eloquent. Merely clear and convincing. I for one am on the side of Quality over Quantity.
    Last edited by Alyn; 04-27-2012 at 05:13 AM. Reason: inappropriate language
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  5. #20
    Champion of Telara ShinChuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheProtagonist View Post
    I feel like the OP lacks the intelligence to articulate his point without profanity. English is a very expansive language in which there are essentially limitless ways to express the same point; learn to be eloquent.
    While I would have gone without the person attacks, this is honestly a solid point. You can articulate any point or emotion in the world without breaking the "T" rating if you put in the time and effort to do so.
    Last edited by ShinChuck; 04-27-2012 at 01:58 AM.

  6. #21
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    But you will never create exactly the same meaning.

  7. #22
    Champion of Telara Whytwulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheProtagonist View Post
    I feel like the OP lacks the intelligence to articulate his point without profanity. English is a very expansive language in which there are essentially limitless ways to express the same point; learn to be eloquent.
    I don't believe profanity exists. Expressing yourself through the use of certain words in our language has no bearing on intelligence. However, blacklisting certain words over others because of one's personal moral compass is the sign of an immature and unintelligent person -- not the use of "profanity". What you call profanity are the words we ADULTS use to express anger, frustration, fear, etc. and that extends to how we communicate to get our point across in a discussion

    Having said all this, it is Trion's right to determine what is allowed and not allowed when posting in their forums, no matter how wrong their line of thinking is.
    Oh mortal man, is there anything you cannot be made to believe?

  8. #23
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whytwulf View Post
    I don't believe profanity exists. Expressing yourself through the use of certain words in our language has no bearing on intelligence. However, blacklisting certain words over others because of one's personal moral compass is the sign of an immature and unintelligent person -- not the use of "profanity". What you call profanity are the words we ADULTS use to express anger, frustration, fear, etc. and that extends to how we communicate to get our point across in a discussion
    Except that's not necessarily true; not all adults do that! It's a cultural rule, not an adult/non-adult thing.

    Having said all this, it is Trion's right to determine what is allowed and not allowed when posting in their forums, no matter how wrong their line of thinking is.
    I think their line of thinking is quite correct, though. Since their game is intended for a broad range of audiences, including people who object to those words being used in public discourse, their forums and game need to basically respect that. Private channels are one thing; public channels are another. (And harassing tells to someone you don't like end up with the same issues as public channels.)

    Trion isn't saying "these words are wrong". They are saying "these words upset a number of paying customers and this game's ESRB rating told customers that it would be primarily T-rated."
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  9. #24
    Ascendant Noaani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrLith View Post
    what i find funny is that you get warnings for censored words too.. ~~
    What I find funny is that you get warnings for words that are censored because someone didn't understand the meaning of the word, and the mods didn't bother to look in to whether that person had reason to be offended or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Debase View Post
    If the only target audience for Rift is disenfranchised WoW players, its doomed imo.

  10. #25
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    What I find funny is that this thread actually has nothing to do with political correctness

  11. #26
    Rift Chaser Ming's Avatar
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    Darn these silly zombies! They're everywhere, oh Jimini crickets that one is eating a child. Yikes, there are far too many... I'm surrounded. Jeepers- I guess this is it. Back you heathens! Back I tell you!! Ow my arm, gosh darn you!
    Formerly Scarecrowe... now Skullcluck. I know, I need to L2P, thanks. Save your breath.
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  12. #27
    Ascendant Noaani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elrar View Post
    So,

    RIFT is rated by the ESRB as T, for Teen. As policy, and out of respect for the guidelines set forth by industry standards, we like to keep language appropriate for the audiences who may be playing our game.

    Now you could argue that there are probably a lot of teenagers with worse mouths than adults - but the point is that we seek to create an environment that is welcoming to all.

    For an M rated game, ya never know, we might open the funnel a bit - but that's because we'd anticipate a different audience that, by and large, is more accustomed to vulgarity than not.

    I swear like a sailor sometimes, but only where appropriate - and this simply isn't one of those places.

    Thanks for understanding - if you have any questions about a specific moderation action Walsingham and our moderation team would be happy to assist, they provide our email address in the message explaining the infraction/warning. (Or if it's just a general inquiry just PM Walsingham directly)

    Cheers,
    That is interesting.

    What exactly is the interaction between the ESRB 'T' rating this game has, and the fact that you need to be 18 to accept the EULA?
    Quote Originally Posted by Debase View Post
    If the only target audience for Rift is disenfranchised WoW players, its doomed imo.

  13. #28
    Rift Chaser Ming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noaani View Post
    That is interesting.

    What exactly is the interaction between the ESRB 'T' rating this game has, and the fact that you need to be 18 to accept the EULA?
    Trick question? I'd interpret that mean that while a) An 18 year old must agree to the EULA, b) the game is rated T.
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  14. #29
    Ascendant Noaani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming View Post
    Trick question? I'd interpret that mean that while a) An 18 year old must agree to the EULA, b) the game is rated T.
    Since you can't agree to the EULA on someone else's behalf, why would Trion cater to anyone too young to use their only live product?

    I'm not arguing the moderation, per se, just the argument that it is done for rating purposes. It would also be relavent to note that the rating specifically says "Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB", which includes forums.
    Quote Originally Posted by Debase View Post
    If the only target audience for Rift is disenfranchised WoW players, its doomed imo.

  15. #30
    Plane Walker Cienn's Avatar
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    I'm assuming the OP is confusing political correctness with "polite, intelligent, well-thought-out, respectful conversation." That's me, though.
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