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Thread: Nothing for the little guy? or "Why should I keep playing?"

  1. #466
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodberry View Post
    Apart from all other problems, raids are the demise of any meaningful story line.

    What happens in the open world is abolutely negligible, and the only important things happen in the most secluded and less accessible places in the game - raid instances.

    Who really BELIEVES that Lord Greenscale is dead?
    The dragon you killed is only his physical form so, he isn't

  2. #467
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anuhart View Post
    I was really really shocked to find out that the head man actually thinks - shiny loot>play style - and that one would do what one doesn't want to, because of shiny loot.
    Statistically, he's quite right. When there was a window in WoW during which there were particular loots to be gotten from Arena that were really good (weapons, I think), tons of people formed arena teams and lost a number of matches without even trying until they had enough points to get the items.

    A lot of players will do things they don't much enjoy to get shinies, and some of them will conclude that they actually enjoy those things.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  3. #468
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    The dragon you killed is only his physical form so, he isn't
    That was my theory, but one of the more lore-aware people has informed me that, officially, Greenscale and Akylios are dead now, which is why the travel stones opened up and the fae were able to do the fae yule ceremony; those dragons have been defeated.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  4. #469
    Champion Amethyriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    Statistically, he's quite right. When there was a window in WoW during which there were particular loots to be gotten from Arena that were really good (weapons, I think), tons of people formed arena teams and lost a number of matches without even trying until they had enough points to get the items.

    A lot of players will do things they don't much enjoy to get shinies, and some of them will conclude that they actually enjoy those things.
    probably because the effort vs reward ratio was much more attractive in arenas than raiding in tempest keep and beyond pre nerf.

    if effort and reward are similar between two aspects, people will more likely concentrate on the aspect they like.

  5. #470
    Ascendant Anuhart's Avatar
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    Statistically, he's quite right. When there was a window in WoW during which there were particular loots to be gotten from Arena that were really good (weapons, I think), tons of people formed arena teams and lost a number of matches without even trying until they had enough points to get the items.

    A lot of players will do things they don't much enjoy to get shinies, and some of them will conclude that they actually enjoy those things.
    So, using those statistics, and that model.

    Does it sound like a good idea to encourage people 'to enter raid teams and not even try until they get the items' even if some of them will conclude that they actually enjoy it?

    Seems to me a much more sensible approach would be to offer equal progression (or hell, even some progression) for every play style, when people will then have the choice to do what they want.

    I mean, we have these two quotes;

    "Warfronts and artifact collections will net you some good gear, but there will be enough incentive to make you want to raid to get that gear."

    "if you make the activities fun enough players will want to try them with their friends."

    Trying to get people to try a different play style with two separate carrots, dangling loot and dangling fun.
    What isn't mentioned is the 3rd, that of completely halting both of those outside of the preferred activity in which Trion want you to partake.
    Last edited by Anuhart; 04-30-2012 at 10:06 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    You obviously know nothing about Laethys, have you tried him?
    I don't log in anymore.

  6. #471
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Oh, I'd agree that it's not a good thing to just use loot to try to get people to do stuff in general -- I'm just agreeing that, as a factual matter, yes many players will do something they don't enjoy if they think it is the best way to get loot.

    I do not think that is a good thing, necessarily, because most players will then have less fun. If anything, I think it's something to watch out for -- if you have a loot disparity, you'll end up with people who follow the shinies, do something they don't enjoy, and then think your game isn't fun.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  7. #472
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anuhart View Post
    Trying to get people to try a different play style with two separate carrots, dangling loot and dangling fun.
    What isn't mentioned is the 3rd, that of completely halting both of those outside of the preferred activity in which Trion want you to partake.
    This last bit raised a thought I have always had. Now I can understand if suddenly a game has changed. You have loved it for some time and then suddenly they say "raid or die" "solo or die" what have you. I have noticed a trend that I simply do not understand though. People join a game. The game does not offer what they want. However rather than doing what an adult does irl, let your wallet walk to a product that does what you want, people often instead rage and rage, cry and cry, but keep paying their money to the company in question. What incentive does a game developer have to change if you keep paying them money?
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  8. #473
    Telaran Shanso's Avatar
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    All MMO go through this. You reach a point where you've done everything adnauseum, and they just can't keep up with you. It's normal, and usually signifies that it's time to hang em up.

    Once you've exhausted you play style, find a new game and move on. That's how I do it. That being said, I'm nearly there myself.

  9. #474
    Prophet of Telara Goodberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    Boy, wouldn't it be neat if several people had written large elaborate posts going into this in exhaustive detail with analogies, explanations, and examples?

    Long story short:
    Why do raiders want better gear over time? So they feel like they are progressing and going on to harder content.
    Why do non-raiders want better gear over time? So they feel like they are progressing and going on to harder content.

    The big difference is, we want the better gear, but we also want the harder content added.

    Basically, non-raiders are in a situation much like raiders would be in if Trion had not actually released GSB until 1.6, and had never released a raid past GSB. There's a shortage of challenging content; what little content we have, we can faceroll.

    So we want harder content, and also gear rewards for it that allow us to progress through it.

    Which is to say: Exactly the same thing, only without the requirement to get twenty people together to do it, but more of a focus on individual effort and skill.
    Right. The latest real fun I had in RIFT was dying to Infiltrator Johlen some twenty times while trying to solo that Chronicle (I started trying as soon as I hit 50) and finally taking my revenge.

  10. #475
    Soulwalker Freudinio's Avatar
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    I hear that guild wars game will have lots and lots of random events.

    Gillian - Warrior - DPS -> Skywatch <- Defiant - Argent - EU-RP
    Gilded Prophecy 4/4 - Drowned Halls 4/4 - Rise of The Phoenix 4/4 - Greenscale's Blight 5/5 - River of Souls 5/5 - Hammerknell 11/11

  11. #476
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    Tachy,

    In all honesty, I am one of those 'little guys', I leveled 4 toons to 50 before I joined any guilds, to see the game world on my terms; now Im going back with our lower members to get my standards done, and moving into expert/T1, so but sure.

    The key in this game, to me, is search out those things that may draw your attention and then you'll have some reason to keep playing.

    If you are in one guild, most events don't block you from being in a multiguild situation for the Events, and thats a time to take more observation how others do things, and try them for you or with you groupmates/guildmates.

    Enjoy the world that Trion is giving us, its a good place.

  12. #477
    Ascendant Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    This last bit raised a thought I have always had. Now I can understand if suddenly a game has changed. You have loved it for some time and then suddenly they say "raid or die" "solo or die" what have you. I have noticed a trend that I simply do not understand though. People join a game. The game does not offer what they want. However rather than doing what an adult does irl, let your wallet walk to a product that does what you want, people often instead rage and rage, cry and cry, but keep paying their money to the company in question. What incentive does a game developer have to change if you keep paying them money?
    people get more attached to mmos because of the time spend. can't find it anymore, but there was a study or theorem from a psychiatrist back when wow became big that explained it: the more time/effort people spend with something (their char), they grow more attached to it which makes it harder and harder as time goes on to simply let go - even harder considering all the monthly subs piling up....

    this is easily "exploited" by companies where the "real" game starts at endgame. people spend the time leveling their char, reach cap and all of a sudden the game changes a lot. instead of stopping them right at the beginning where it would be easy for them to quit and look for a game better suited for them, they are goated to play enough to grow more attached. and that happens all the time, so if last month people asked the devs to accommodate their playstyle, you can bet this month people will be in the same situation again and ask the same. and next month too.

    while it's easy to says "people, use common sense ffs", it's not entirely people being stupid.

  13. #478
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Oh I get that but Rift is a game where I would think that rule has far less power. You can get to 50 lickity split. Heck there were people complaining about a bait and switch issue (with instances being the end game) here in Rift within a month of launch. Due to the short time frame involved I found this dynamic, which is clearly evidence in games with harsher leveling curves, to be a little odd.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  14. #479
    Telaran Plastic Praxus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tachy View Post
    Unless I'm part of a guild raiding HK or the new ID there's is nothing new to do but fish, and no new reason to continue doing zone events?
    One does not simply Dance Dance Revolution into Mordor....
    Quote Originally Posted by Irodeyourmom View Post
    One does not simply Dance Dance Revolution into Mordor....

  15. #480
    Ascendant Anuhart's Avatar
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    Oh I get that but Rift is a game where I would think that rule has far less power. You can get to 50 lickity split. Heck there were people complaining about a bait and switch issue (with instances being the end game) here in Rift within a month of launch. Due to the short time frame involved I found this dynamic, which is clearly evidence in games with harsher leveling curves, to be a little odd.
    That's true, and many did leave.

    But many had a 6 month paid sub. Remember what happened around that expiry date, release +7 months? Ember Isle right on the horizon, alternative advancement, vet rewards that gave real in game utility (mail box, banker), looking very promising, and so another 6 months (at least) was quite a probable reality. So we now not only have 6 months investment in characters but a further 6 or 12 in paid subs.

    And don't forget "the game is only x months old, give it time".
    Last edited by Anuhart; 05-01-2012 at 01:50 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    You obviously know nothing about Laethys, have you tried him?
    I don't log in anymore.

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