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Thread: This doesn't sound good...

  1. #136
    Ascendant Europe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slyde View Post
    You are both right, there are a LOT of things in MMOs that are 'standard' features that you will find everywhere. And developers of new games would be smart to start with the best versions of these basic features and then build their own unique game on that foundation.

    That's just what I said in my post 'Game Design Basics'.

    Most people don't have a problem with the part that makes a game unique. I think just about everyone is happy with the dynamic content (rifts) and the class system.

    The real arguments are usually about which game has the 'best version' of certain standard features. Whether it's the death penalty, or leveling speed, or PvP style, or whatever - these are the things people disagree on.

    And, the thing is, these things are probably more important to the long term success of a game than the 'unique' stuff. They can make or break a game. A game has to be fun and challenging, and it has to continue to be for as long as the game developers hope to hold on to their subscribers.

    If leveling is too fast, people reach the end-game, become bored, and move on to another game. If it's too slow, they become bored with the 'grind' and also find another game.

    The key to keeping people playing the same game for many years is to keep it fun and challenging at a pace that suits them.

    So, the question is, does Trion want to keep people to playing Rift for 1-2 years, or do they build a game for the long-term and players who will still be here in 5 years or longer?
    Do players even play mmos for more than 1-2 years on average anyway? I bet they don't. That length of time can bring about a lot of life changes. I'm not sure the 5 year target is a safe bet.
    <a href=http://www.trinityguild.org target=_blank>http://www.trinityguild.org/images/signatures/rift/sig_final.png</a>
    I mean, I guess it would just be a guy who you know, grabs bananas and runs. Or, um, a banana that grabs things. I donít know.
    Why would a banana grab another banana? I mean, those are the kind of questions I donít want to answer.

  2. #137
    Rift Disciple Beta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slyde View Post
    You are both right, there are a LOT of things in MMOs that are 'standard' features that you will find everywhere. And developers of new games would be smart to start with the best versions of these basic features and then build their own unique game on that foundation.

    That's just what I said in my post 'Game Design Basics'.

    Most people don't have a problem with the part that makes a game unique. I think just about everyone is happy with the dynamic content (rifts) and the class system.

    The real arguments are usually about which game has the 'best version' of certain standard features. Whether it's the death penalty, or leveling speed, or PvP style, or whatever - these are the things people disagree on.

    And, the thing is, these things are probably more important to the long term success of a game than the 'unique' stuff. They can make or break a game. A game has to be fun and challenging, and it has to continue to be for as long as the game developers hope to hold on to their subscribers.

    If leveling is too fast, people reach the end-game, become bored, and move on to another game. If it's too slow, they become bored with the 'grind' and also find another game.

    The key to keeping people playing the same game for many years is to keep it fun and challenging at a pace that suits them.

    So, the question is, does Trion want to keep people to playing Rift for 1-2 years, or do they build a game for the long-term and players who will still be here in 5 years or longer?
    Well said. I also think the more effort/time you need to put into a character the nicer the community is.You dont want to be the guy who no one wants around, so you try harder to not make waves.You work on having a good rep with the majority of players, and hopefully know your class a lot better then something you whipped up in a week.

  3. #138
    Ascendant Slyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Europe View Post
    Do players even play mmos for more than 1-2 years on average anyway? I bet they don't. That length of time can bring about a lot of life changes. I'm not sure the 5 year target is a safe bet.
    I played two accounts in EQ for 6 years, with a 10 month break for SWG and two weeks for EQII.

    I finally left EQ for Vanguard, where I've played two accounts for almost 4 years now. It's possible I could leave VG for Rift - time will tell.

    Most of the people who played the classic MMOs (EQ, UO, AC, DAoC) stayed with their game well over 3 years.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slyde View Post
    I played two accounts in EQ for 6 years, with a 10 month break for SWG and two weeks for EQII.

    I finally left EQ for Vanguard, where I've played two accounts for almost 4 years now. It's possible I could leave VG for Rift - time will tell.

    Most of the people who played the classic MMOs (EQ, UO, AC, DAoC) stayed with their game well over 3 years.

    There were less MMOs then. There are lots now, and the trend to jump between and among many is quite common now. I'd even say it's unusual to play one game exclusively and for many years now. It's too easy to suspend your subscription while waiting on new content, play another for a bit, etc.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beta View Post
    Well said. I also think the more effort/time you need to put into a character the nicer the community is.You dont want to be the guy who no one wants around, so you try harder to not make waves.You work on having a good rep with the majority of players, and hopefully know your class a lot better then something you whipped up in a week.
    Communities have changed. Your guild is now the primary community. Server-wide reputation is not as important, as less and less people group outside their guild. I'm not debating if that's good or bad, it's just how it is.

  6. #141
    Ascendant popsicledeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Europe View Post
    Do players even play mmos for more than 1-2 years on average anyway?
    Nope.

    The average (that I remember from some studies that were actually done in a fairly respectable way a few years back) was around 8 months or so, I believe.

    Of course, averages are averages, so some people stay for a long time, others for only for the free month.

    I think the more important demographic to target isn't those that play hardcore for 6 straight years, but those who play more casually for the first three months, then come back every expansion for another 3 months. This latter group is often forgotten in the debate between the hardcore 'lifers' and the casual players who 'hop from game to game.' There's a huge amount of people who don't play straight through the life of a game, but a game might be one they play, and one they'll continually come back to for expansions or significant updates.

    But it's hard to really quantify 'how long people play' because there are so many variables and different ways to play these games. I think as others have mentioned the important thing is to not give people reasons to abandon the game due to bugs or tech-issues or huge design flaws. Because the one thing that is guaranteed in the genre is if the product can be seen as a stinking failure, it will be. Can't give the skeptical gamers that opportunity.

    edit: and the 'well I've played....' responses are interesting, but personal anecdotal evidence does not solid statistics make. Especially because the 'average' gamer isn't on these forums right now, much less in the thread, heh.
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  7. #142
    Plane Touched Lepus_Iscariot's Avatar
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    It is way too early for this type of conversation =P.

    Also, there was some talk of how we will never reach the same highs as we did with our first MMOs. I don't think this is true.

    Adrenaline comes from fear, and the argument is that we had more of it back in the day.

    What causes this fear? Penalties for death.

    What has been missing from almost every MMO to come out post the glory days? Penalties for death.

    I say bring something back to strike fear into the hearts of the players, please.

  8. #143
    Shield of Telara Caracarn's Avatar
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    I think it is still too early to form a solid opinion. Still I am thankful that there are also critical remarks about Rift in this forum. Everyone of us is entitled to like and dislike parts of the game. I am most cautious about people who are completely for or against something, as this may show a lot of emotion but a lack of thinking.
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  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by popsicledeath View Post
    Nope.

    The average (that I remember from some studies that were actually done in a fairly respectable way a few years back) was around 8 months or so, I believe.

    Of course, averages are averages, so some people stay for a long time, others for only for the free month.

    I think the more important demographic to target isn't those that play hardcore for 6 straight years, but those who play more casually for the first three months, then come back every expansion for another 3 months. This latter group is often forgotten in the debate between the hardcore 'lifers' and the casual players who 'hop from game to game.' There's a huge amount of people who don't play straight through the life of a game, but a game might be one they play, and one they'll continually come back to for expansions or significant updates.
    I disagree, the majority of the players, play for years and may hop to another game. If they dont like it will return back. Casual players will try most things that are new and if they have a good experence in the brief time they played they will return. It's the hard core players that keep the game going that lets casuals return.Not many players are going to come back to a ghost town. If the game isnt good enough to keep the hard core players, causal players will have little intrest in it.

  10. #145
    Shadowlander TezonAnejo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zederok View Post
    To each their own. I tried VG and thought it was a very boring game with bad animations and an overly cartoony feel (more so then WoW). The classes seemed cool but every thing else about the game screamed grind and overly complex for complex's sake.

    If Rift plays like WoW and has all the bells and whistles that made that game fun then I am overly optomistic about Rift's success.


    I have never actually heard anyone say that any game was more "cartoony" than Wow, especially Vanguard. Not with the amazing graphical detail of Vanguard. That was actually one of the games problems. It took a super computer to play it. From what I have seen so far of Rift it isn't cartoony at all.
    Last edited by TezonAnejo; 09-07-2010 at 11:15 AM.

  11. #146
    Plane Touched Lilliemunster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TezonAnejo View Post
    I have never actually heard anyone say that any game was more "cartoony" than Wow, especially Vanguard. Not with the amazing graphical detail of Vanguard. That was actually one of the games problems. It took a super computer to play it. From what I have seen so far of Rift it isn't cartoony at all.
    I agree bro, you coulden't get more "cartoony" than WoW.

  12. #147
    Plane Walker Kyuso's Avatar
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    My fanboyism do not allow me to say bad things about this game so... :P
    We all know Trion its not inventing the weel again they are just adding new rims and tires.

  13. #148
    Shadowlander TezonAnejo's Avatar
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    I think all of us at one time said "wow this game would be amazing if is just had *****." You are right Trion isn't re-inventing the wheel...maybe they just added all of those little "wow" factors that we have all been waiting for since Everquest. BTW, I wouldn't mind some form of AA's to be brought back. Character specialization was one of those little things that always made me want to log in.

    Tezon

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelus View Post
    I did the same, just off the info we already know this game is not "WoW Clone" not even taken into account we have yet to learn.
    After hearing about the dungeon runs specifically, and how it seems that they are designed to take an upwards of two hours, I feel that the comparison to wow is even further disrupted. The problem is, since the game is fantasy with two opposing factions at war the initial conclusion is a comparison to warcraft.

    Combat, dungeon combat, soul trees, is still largely unknown for those not involved in the community. And unfortunately, because they are unknown to most, the similarities become the primary concern and differences are unspoken.

  15. #150
    Prophet of Telara Jorun's Avatar
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    An opinion is an opinion based on the individual's experiences and how that person might view things. It isn't uncommon for a person to compare games. All games can be viewed that way.

    When I first started playing WoW, I thought - hey - this part is kinda like Myst - the quest - the looking for the answer to something. Yeah, there was no killing in Myst like in WoW and a lot was different, yet I found similarities. Same with the old p&p D&D. A lot of similarities between that and WoW.

    Point is - if a peep is attracted to Rift: PoT, then play. Play it on its own terms. If one doesn't constantly compare Rift to WoW or Vanguard or EQ or GW or w/e then one just may enjoy it a lot more.

    Besides - change happens - the person who wrote their opinion based it on a very limited view of Rift, plus it could very well change before Rift is released. It would make that person's opinion limited in the context of the time warp.

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