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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Phase 1 : Low Population Server issues

  1. #16
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enaki View Post
    Sadly we live in a world where not getting a reward is confused with being punished. There's a significant difference, but most people can't (or won't) see the distinction.
    Actually, the difference is purely a hallucinatory one generated by human brains being irrational. Missed gains and losses are weighted very differently by humans, but they're not actually logically distinct. "Not getting $100" and "losing $100" both represent having $100 less than the alternative.

    I do think it's sort of harsh that I have pretty much a guarantee of getting these rewards on Faeblight even if I never do anything, whereas on some other servers there's simply nothing any given player can do to significantly increase the chances of success.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enaki View Post
    Sadly we live in a world where not getting a reward is confused with being punished. There's a significant difference, but most people can't (or won't) see the distinction.


    The only people who mentioned any "punishment" in this thread are you and the dev who posted. The rest are having a discussion on not getting a decent shot at a reward due to the way this event is implemented.

    People on high pop servers can sit on their thumbs and claim a reward (reward usually means you did something to earn it), while players on low pop shards can work their tails off and still fail, not getting anything. Or they could transfer to high pop server for a bit and get freebie "rewards".

  3. #18
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Framing issue.

    Penalty: "Everyone gets this title, except those people over there who did X, because X prevents them from getting the title."
    Reward: "No one gets this title, except those people over there who did Y, because Y assures them of getting the title."

    Thing is. If "X" is "be on a low-pop server", and "Y" is "be on a high-pop server", it turns out that these are exactly the same. There is no real difference between the outcomes or their causes, just a difference in how we describe it.

    Roughly one day into the event, my characters are 43% done with the first phase. I haven't even done a single quest! This is framed somehow as a "reward" for my efforts? I don't really think so.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  4. #19
    Plane Touched
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    If you really care about titles you may or may not receive, wait until the last phase...transfer to a server with all the titles...buy titles at the conclusion of the event...transfer back.

    Can't understand why anyone would care that much about a title, but to each their own I suppose.
    Last edited by Azurrei; 03-01-2012 at 04:30 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerilar View Post
    There is no penalty for not completing the objectives. There is however, a reward. Gonna need people to pull together and work on it!
    People are not going to pull together. Those on the lower pop shards are going to look at the numbers, do some quick napkin math, decide that the shard isn't going to complete the objective and then

    a. give up, making not completing the objective a self fulfilling prophecy
    b. transfer to a high pop shard that can complete the objective much easier


    I love the idea of faction/server wide goals but combined with free server transfers and the current implementation, which disadvantages smaller shards. meh, not so hot.

  6. #21
    Ascendant Charlice's Avatar
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    Next it will be that on most high pop shards, Defiant outnumber Guards by 2 to 1. There's really no difference.

    Honestly do the complaints ever stop?


    Den of Madness | Greybriar | Den of Badness | Derpwood

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlice View Post

    Honestly do the complaints ever stop?
    Nope. Never. Ever.

    But this complaint has some validity

    I don't think that people on high pop shards that will do this easily, like say, Greybriar should complain about the complainers (I jest)

    mostly

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glamour View Post
    Nope. Never. Ever.

    But this complaint has some validity

    I don't think that people on high pop shards that will do this easily, like say, Greybriar should complain about the complainers (I jest)

    mostly
    You're right of course.

    Anyway, I'm going to start a thread because the Defiants outnumber us Godly Guards on Greybriar, so we have NO chance of winning.


    Den of Madness | Greybriar | Den of Badness | Derpwood

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glamour View Post
    a. give up, making not completing the objective a self fulfilling prophecy
    b. transfer to a high pop shard that can complete the objective much easier

    I love the idea of faction/server wide goals but combined with free server transfers and the current implementation, which disadvantages smaller shards. meh, not so hot.
    Which leads to obvious result number: Large numbers of xfers to high pop servers, then:
    1. Queues to login to some of those servers.
    2. Server lag. If this is happening during raids (as it has certainly happened in the past), Trion is going to have a lot more people yelling and unhappy.

    We saw this right after the server merger in January - server lag so bad that HK raids were failing on bosses we had on farm prev to server xfer. Trion put in some tech fixes and some guilds move off our (now crowded) server to less busy servers, and the combination of those two mostly fixed the problem.

  10. #25
    Ascendant Talila's Avatar
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    I'm al-right with the game wanting us to work for the titles, and perhaps even more so work together about it, but I really do think it should be scaled for low-pop shards.
    It's not that I would be going about being depressed over not getting a title - I've never been much of a "collect ALL the titles" person - but I do believe people should have a "fair" chance to accomplish the goal.
    Of course, everyone has the chance here - it's not like it's impossible - but the chance of it succeeding on a low-pop server is minimal. Even if the whole community came together about it, some shards would undoubtedly still struggle to achieve it - and there's nothing more demotivating than slow progress. People might already be giving up now, because they simply think it's impossible.

    Two (ish) days in, Argent's guardian side just made it over 10k - We'd need to do MORE than that per day for the rest of the week in order to make it in time. Argent is bordering (in my eyes, read) between low and medium population - but you need to factor in as well that not everyone has time to do much of an effort during the week days. By my calculations we're roughly 18k behind where we should be - so we need to catch up on that plus gain the normal amount for a day to make it happen.
    In comparison, the defiants on Argent are already beyond 20.000.

    So yeah, some scaling for the shards with a heavy faction imbalance or lower populations would be appreciated. I'm not saying make it easy - I'm saying make it a little more achievable.

  11. #26
    Ascendant Tolmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerilar View Post
    There is no penalty for not completing the objectives. There is however, a reward. Gonna need people to pull together and work on it!
    I could be mistaken, but isn't that the same thing as people were worrying about? No one expected a penalty penalty, like everyone on the server reverts to level 1 or something... but there being an available reward and it being impossible to get that reward on a low pop server simply because there aren't enough people seems like a steep penalty in and of itself.

    Wonder if this is some sneaky way to get people to consolidate servers?
    Rift: 50 Rogue Tank, Two 50 Cleric tanks, and a 50 Mage

  12. #27
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    Yes I think these quests need to scale with the shards population, on these low pop shards even if everyone pulled together there is no way we would have a fair chance to get the objective done, while on higher pop shards they just can easily ride by with flying colors.

  13. #28
    Rift Disciple Koolthulu's Avatar
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    Where is all this "complaining" stuff coming from? I don't think the OP was complaining. And I was just wondering what would happen if the quest wasn't finished. Now I know, I just miss a title.

    Personally, I'm enjoying the event so far, and plan on doing all the quests each day, whether I think the main quest will be finished or not.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerilar View Post
    There is no penalty for not completing the objectives. There is however, a reward. Gonna need people to pull together and work on it!
    Not completing objectives = no reward = penalty
    That's how I would think.

    I don't care much about titles etc.
    The only thing I do care is "fairness".
    The current implementation of the objective doesn't seem fair, and for that I would object.

  15. #30
    Soulwalker Zherlya's Avatar
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    So no word at all about possible scaling or some other solution?

    I realise that because this is about low population shards or factions people may not be as vocal about it here on the forum, because there's less people who can be. And possibly also because people don't realise you can actually fail the quest and miss out on something. But I hope this thread can manage to stand out anyways.

    I know some people have said it is just a title, and it's totally true I could personally live without that title.
    It's really not just about that though.

    I am on Argent (the EU RP shard), Guardian side. And even if during the weekend there's three times as much people doing the gathering, and the numbers in the weekdays after that don't plummet further than the numbers we've had the last days (which really is very much wishful thinking on both counts) we still have no way of getting there. We'd only be just past half.

    I really like challenges, but entering a challenge where you know you can not possibly "win" is just no fun at all.
    It is completely discouraging.
    And even though I put up some music and was planning on seeing how much I could get on a heavy butchering spree, even I gave up. (and I have a history of setting my mind to something no matter how big the grind, and then sticking with it till the end).

    So please, reconsider looking at scaling.
    Because no, it's not just about a title. It's also about fairness and having fun.
    And if scaling is not an option, maybe you can mail the title to characters that have done a gathering handin every day? Yes that sounds too easy maybe, but being on a high populated shard where you don't have to do a thing and then you can just buy it is even easier.

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