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Thread: The add-on I want now. ;)

  1. #46
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakinor View Post
    You make ALOT of good points, and I agree most people cannot actually figure out what they want. My problem, as I have stated before has nothing to do with the under performers, it has to do with giving people a tool to kick people who are performing well but not excellently which only causes delays and /ragequits. Maybe its my WoW experience but I saw a good thing turn very ugly very quickly and do not want to go through that again here.
    The people who want to do that will do it anyway -- if they don't have DPS meters, they'll just do it incorrectly, which arguably makes it worse. Basically... every year, at least a few people get hit with hammers. The solution is not to prohibit the sale of hammers.

    Yeah, some people are jerks. I am okay with them kicking me out of groups, because then I am not grouped with jerks.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  2. #47
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    DPS meters are pretty much a neccessity for the bleeding edge of content (raiding). I would even argue that it is needed for even PuG games as even some T2s hav DPS checks that you need to clear.

    That said, some form of judgement needs to be reserved when looking at these numbers. For example role in the raid (clicking crystals in Plut) would naturally lead to a drop in DPS. A good raid leader would be able to differentiate and read meters accordingly.

    Obviously meters are open to abuse. It is very easy to paste meters in party chat and say "you suck" which is totally non-constructive. This however is not the fault of the meter itself but rather the individuals (the ones with poor social skills and lousy DPS). That said, it can be used for good as well by helping the individual (and overall raid) improve. People generally enjoy doing an activity that they are good in rather than one they are not.

    Ultimately it boils down to the individuals rather than the system.
    Last edited by Blackblade; 10-18-2011 at 07:37 PM.

  3. #48
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    The problem isn't that there's too much data. The problem is that there is not enough.

    Currently, DPS meters/HPS meters are all we have. We don't have a 'support' meter.

    A % dmg increase from having a beastmaster in a group goes unnoticed.... the low DPS though is noticed.

    Pyro-archon.... debuffs are excellent for a group, pegged at 5% and 7% dmg increase... no one notices.

    Cleric soul drain makes target take more magic dmg.... no one notices.

    ACT is actually a very powerful tool that can be tailored to attribute dmg to the correct person (well... stats and straight out % boosts are difficult to attribute). You can programme charge shield and static discharge to be taken from the DPS meters of others and attributed to the caster. Of course, no one can be bothered to go through that exercise.

    What would be great is if support had a way of being measured, to give an idea of what that role brings to the raid/group.

    Of course, if you just want to hide the fact that you have bad dps and you are not providing any support whatsoever...

  4. #49
    Champion Nethos's Avatar
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    or better yet OP..I know you and some people are gonna hate to hear this but....learn to play your class to the best of it's abilities,get the best gear you can and use the combatlog to your advantage,to fine tune your skill.Then it wont be an issue for you.Honestly if you are doing what you should be doing to the limits of your gear you wont get any grief.But ya just because that 200 dps rogue in your T2 dungeon doesnt want to "L2PLAY" it not fair the rest of the group has to pick up his slack.So in essence...L2 play and you will be fine.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    A couple of reasons, the main one of which is: It would not actually have the effect they are advocating for.

    What people want is for it to be somehow impossible for someone to kick them from a group for performing poorly. So they think "hmm, people do that from looking at meters. If meters didn't show me, this couldn't happen!" And they ask for a way to get excluded from meters.
    You're wrong and again you are making assumptions based on you're opinion. The game doesnt REQUIRE meters. People do not "need" to know the damage others are putting out. Ive been playing MMO's for over a decade and remember the days when there were no such thing as add-ons. The games ran just fine. Its EASY to tell when people are doing their job and they aren't. If i do not want my numbers to be shown i should have the ability for them to not show. In PVP its 1 thing so the others can see the breakdown and how to combat against you in the future, but in PVE it is un-needed. Just because id rather not advertise my DPS does NOT mean that it sucks.

    I also think that being the ambassador here you are doing a rather ****astic job. Ive not seen a single legit and unbiased answer in this thread. Honestly i think if you are going to participate in these types of threads it should not be from a Trion supported account because it honestly makes you look pretty stupid because you are using your viewpoint (whether it matches the majority or minority does not make it RIGHT) to imply what should / should not be part of games and their mechanics.



    No, it's that they're wrong because of what they have to say. We've heard it all, and most of it is simply not true. This game has had working damage meters since beta.
    Wrong again, this game has not had meters since anything. Its API allowed for them to be made by 3rd parties. If Rift wanted the game to have meters, they would have their own already (not a plain combat log). If you check back through the history, its been a long even battle on Add-ons since Alpha was launched. Its a pretty even battle with those for and against add-ons.

    In the end, proven fact based on games since day 1, Add-ons of ANY nature are NOT required to play games or to progress. You can clear all current content without a single add-on by actually playing the game instead of relying on 3rd party programs to tell you what to do or not to do, when to do this or when not to do that.

  6. #51
    Plane Touched
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    I love the "Games are just lines of code, code can be changed" super oversimplification of how MMO's work. It can't be done, and if it was it'd be basicly considered hacking and you'd get banned.

    I want an add-on that auto-ignores all the people whining about addons.

  7. #52
    Plane Touched Drakinor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakiro View Post
    I love the "Games are just lines of code, code can be changed" super oversimplification of how MMO's work. It can't be done, and if it was it'd be basicly considered hacking and you'd get banned.

    I want an add-on that auto-ignores all the people whining about addons.
    lol I love how you leave out me saying it wouldnt be an easy change and then assume that I mean to hack the game. And games, like any software can be broken down to lines of code, sure RIFT has millions upon millions but they are still just that lines of code, if you wanna get really technical you can include class (not in game but coding) headers, xml files etc but guess what those too are lines of code. Just like your body is a bunch of cells, not oversimplifying anything, stating a fact. So when you find a video game that isnt lines of code you let me know lol, until then try trolling elsewhere
    All your whining and elitism makes me laugh

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by h4lfb4k3d View Post
    You're wrong and again you are making assumptions based on you're opinion. The game doesnt REQUIRE meters. People do not "need" to know the damage others are putting out. Ive been playing MMO's for over a decade and remember the days when there were no such thing as add-ons. The games ran just fine. Its EASY to tell when people are doing their job and they aren't. If i do not want my numbers to be shown i should have the ability for them to not show. In PVP its 1 thing so the others can see the breakdown and how to combat against you in the future, but in PVE it is un-needed. Just because id rather not advertise my DPS does NOT mean that it sucks.

    I also think that being the ambassador here you are doing a rather ****astic job. Ive not seen a single legit and unbiased answer in this thread. Honestly i think if you are going to participate in these types of threads it should not be from a Trion supported account because it honestly makes you look pretty stupid because you are using your viewpoint (whether it matches the majority or minority does not make it RIGHT) to imply what should / should not be part of games and their mechanics.





    Wrong again, this game has not had meters since anything. Its API allowed for them to be made by 3rd parties. If Rift wanted the game to have meters, they would have their own already (not a plain combat log). If you check back through the history, its been a long even battle on Add-ons since Alpha was launched. Its a pretty even battle with those for and against add-ons.

    In the end, proven fact based on games since day 1, Add-ons of ANY nature are NOT required to play games or to progress. You can clear all current content without a single add-on by actually playing the game instead of relying on 3rd party programs to tell you what to do or not to do, when to do this or when not to do that.
    Trion also endorsed parsers, their official fan site made one, and it was endorsed by the company. Rift wants the users to be able to create what they want. Theres never been a question of if there will be addons, there was always going to be addons. They had to work on other things first which took their time and resources elsewhere, and then they released the API on PTS for months to make sure people couldn't make some crazy OP adddons like nerfed buttons. They we're debating how much control they'd give away, it was NEVER a question of will they wont they. For some reason people have been arguing why they shouldn't allow addons, even though they've always meant for them to be in game.

  9. #54
    Plane Touched Drakinor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakiro View Post
    Trion also endorsed parsers, their official fan site made one, and it was endorsed by the company. Rift wants the users to be able to create what they want. Theres never been a question of if there will be addons, there was always going to be addons. They had to work on other things first which took their time and resources elsewhere, and then they released the API on PTS for months to make sure people couldn't make some crazy OP adddons like nerfed buttons. They we're debating how much control they'd give away, it was NEVER a question of will they wont they. For some reason people have been arguing why they shouldn't allow addons, even though they've always meant for them to be in game.
    So because they did release API means they always intended to allow addons? I think you should go back and do your research. The main argument here is why should any one player be subject to a third party application if they dont want to be. Your statement is not only full of holes but also showing that you will say what needs to be said to make your point of view correct. Have you ever considered a career in politics? lol
    All your whining and elitism makes me laugh

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakinor View Post
    So because they did release API means they always intended to allow addons? I think you should go back and do your research. The main argument here is why should any one player be subject to a third party application if they dont want to be. Your statement is not only full of holes but also showing that you will say what needs to be said to make your point of view correct. Have you ever considered a career in politics? lol
    An argument I don't want any part of anymore because its ******ed, so I started a better argument. You can't force someone to use addons and vent, and as for people not wanting their damage be seen, tough ****. Trion isn't going to change it, learn to pee in a public urinal.

    Yes I have actually thought about a career in politics, thank you.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakiro View Post
    An argument I don't want any part of anymore because its ******ed, so I started a better argument. You can't force someone to use addons and vent, and as for people not wanting their damage be seen, tough ****. Trion isn't going to change it, learn to pee in a public urinal.

    Yes I have actually thought about a career in politics, thank you.
    I bet you would do as well as Joe "the plumber" will do in Ohio as well, or the crazy lunatic from Texas who was the Republican savior and the next week a has been lol.

  12. #57
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    oh my god, aside from Sarah Palin herself, that joe the plumber crap was the most annoying thing about that election.

    Every other sentence "joe the plumber"

    First of all, none of those rich ****s care about "joe the plumber", they just tried to con the semi hillbillies into thinking they were special.

  13. #58
    Ascendant Wolfetx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h4lfb4k3d View Post
    Wrong again, this game has not had meters since anything. Its API allowed for them to be made by 3rd parties. If Rift wanted the game to have meters, they would have their own already (not a plain combat log). If you check back through the history, its been a long even battle on Add-ons since Alpha was launched. Its a pretty even battle with those for and against add-ons.
    Where have you been? I have been able to use parsers (meters) in the game since i started in beta and trion has always officially supported them. You seem to to think meters have only bee out since the api was released.
    I was not in the alpha but i was in many of the betas and i always had access to meters!

    Simple fact is when Trion put in combat logs long long ago they were officially saying we want players to have meters. There really is no other use for a combat log other than to parse it.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfetx View Post
    Where have you been? I have been able to use parsers (meters) in the game since i started in beta and trion has always officially supported them. You seem to to think meters have only bee out since the api was released.
    I was not in the alpha but i was in many of the betas and i always had access to meters!

    Simple fact is when Trion put in combat logs long long ago they were officially saying we want players to have meters. There really is no other use for a combat log other than to parse it.
    You could not be more right, and I applaud you for that.

  15. #60
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h4lfb4k3d View Post
    You're wrong and again you are making assumptions based on you're opinion. The game doesnt REQUIRE meters.
    No one ever said it did.

    But people like them, and people get a lot of value from them.

    People do not "need" to know the damage others are putting out. Ive been playing MMO's for over a decade and remember the days when there were no such thing as add-ons. The games ran just fine. Its EASY to tell when people are doing their job and they aren't.
    Really?

    That sounds testable. If it's easy, obviously you can do it, right?

    Here's my proposed test. We run a series of 5-mans, with two DPS. On each run, one of the DPS will suck. You get to identify which one. If you can consistently do that, I'll believe you that it's "easy", or at least that it's possible.

    ... Ahh, but wait. It's not easy. Especially not if you're actually playing your own character at the time.

    If i do not want my numbers to be shown i should have the ability for them to not show.
    Even if we grant that in theory this should be the case...

    What good will it do you? The exact same people will kick you out of their groups.

    And furthermore... What makes you think it should be possible for you to hide those numbers? If I'm in a party with you, I think I have a reasonable right to want to know whether you are healing me, hurting enemies, both, or neither. That means I'm seeing numbers. We're not even talking meters here, just the combat log.

    I also think that being the ambassador here you are doing a rather ****astic job. Ive not seen a single legit and unbiased answer in this thread.
    What's "unbiased" got to do with anything?

    Honestly i think if you are going to participate in these types of threads it should not be from a Trion supported account because it honestly makes you look pretty stupid because you are using your viewpoint (whether it matches the majority or minority does not make it RIGHT) to imply what should / should not be part of games and their mechanics.
    I do not have any "Trion supported account". I got a title because I tend to explain what I'm thinking and I'm almost always at least basically civil with people. I am not a Trion rep. They don't pay for my opinions. Heck, I don't even get free stuff.

    Wrong again, this game has not had meters since anything. Its API allowed for them to be made by 3rd parties.
    Yes. And when there were issues with that, the Rift devs made sure that the meters worked, they posted threads about how to make meters work, and the GMs have helped people configure them.

    If Rift wanted the game to have meters, they would have their own already (not a plain combat log). If you check back through the history, its been a long even battle on Add-ons since Alpha was launched. Its a pretty even battle with those for and against add-ons.
    I wouldn't call it even at all. One side has arguments that are not based on blatantly false claims about what addons allegedly do. The other side is spreading FUD.

    In the end, proven fact based on games since day 1, Add-ons of ANY nature are NOT required to play games or to progress.
    So what?

    We don't play games because games are required, we play them to have fun.

    You can clear all current content without a single add-on by actually playing the game instead of relying on 3rd party programs to tell you what to do or not to do, when to do this or when not to do that.
    And this is why I don't consider the debate "even" at all; you've got red herrings, false premises, and a lot of emotional rhetoric, but you haven't got an actual argument against providing addon functionality or DPS meters that relies on true claims and follows logically from those claims.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

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