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Thread: We need to talk about Planar Attunement. Now.

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default We need to talk about Planar Attunement. Now.

    When I start to get pissed off, you know something is wrong.

    Planar Attunement is the biggest, most blatant grind in western MMORPG history. It rewards those with time (as opposed to skill) to spend by giving them PVE and PVP advantages via stats. Not only is the grind infinitely long, but it keeps getting longer with every single patch, and the stat advantages further upset any illusion of fair competition in this game.

    I don't understand.

    Why are you nerfing Chronicle EXP when a full 20-man Hammerknell clear gives less than 50% of a Planar Attunement level? Why are you just nerfing all sources of EXP gain with every single patch? What are we supposed to do to get EXP? Quests? --The ones that give 3k EXP? I get 3k EXP for DOTing 3 enemies in Stillmoor. I get more EXP from the enemy in Stillmoor that I kill in two seconds than the enemy in Hammerknell that wipes my raid two times.

    It just seems like this system was implemented with absolutely no planning or foresight--and to make it worse, every new patch makes it look like the developers have less and less of a clue. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone every time I read a post-1.5 patch notes; it's like some of you don't even play the game.

    Here's your solution, since you can't seem to think of it on your own:

    - Ultrabuff raid EXP.

    - Ultrabuff Master Mode dungeon EXP.

    - Megabuff dungeon completion EXP. You may even want to give a bigger EXP bonus to real LFG groups that are made up of 3 or more PUGs.

    - Megabuff daily quest EXP and create more than 25 new dailies for the people who have already maxed out their various faction reps.

    - Create Master Mode Chronicles for players who didn't just reach level 50. Master Mode Chronicles will be much more difficult than Normal Chronicles, and it will expect you to have at least Tier 2 level dungeon gear--but if you complete them you will gain extraordinary amounts of EXP! Master Mode Chronicles will have a one day lockout.

    - Add Planar Chips to Master Mode Dungeons, Master Mode Chronicles, and to 10-man and 20-man raids. Planar Chips are rare drops that can activate any Planar Attunement node, even if no adjacent nodes have been activated, without spending any Planar Attunement points--the Chip item is consumed instead. This would alleviate some of the grind and mix things up, and it would also add a small strategical element to the Planar Attunement system.

    - Consider attaching (a one-time) large EXP bonuses for completing achievements. To keep long time achievement hunters (the ones who already have completed a lot of achievements and got no EXP rewards for them) happy, you can calculate how much EXP someone gets for an achievement based on the amount of achievements they have left uncompleted. In other words, if someone only has 100 achievements left to complete in Rift, they will get a LOT more EXP for completing an achievement than someone who just reached level 50 and has 1000 achievements left. It only makes sense, as the last achievements standing will always be the most difficult to obtain. Attaching EXP gains to achievements will make people excited about achievements again, and will encourage activity all over Telara.

    - Planar Attunement is making people feel guilty for playing alts when they should be "improving" their main by grinding and grinding and grinding. Why not allow a proportion of EXP an alt gains to be transferred to another character? If my alt gains a level, he gains an item called "Vigil's Grant" (stacks), which can be mailed to and consumed by another character to gain a percentage of his (not the alt's) EXP. To prevent abuse, it could look something like this:

    Level (of the alt) 1-9 = Vigil's Grant (level 1), grants 10% EXP of a level to the user
    Level 10-19 = Vigil's Grant (level 10), grants 20% EXP of a level to the user
    Level 20-29 = Vigil's Grant (level 20), grants 30% EXP of a level to the user
    Level 30-39 = Vigil's Grant (level 30), grants 40% EXP of a level to the user
    Level 40-49 = Vigil's Grant (level 40), grants 50% EXP of a level to the user
    Level 50 = Vigil's Grant (level 50), grants 60% EXP of a level to the user

    I hope my suggestions make up for my (justified) complaining. STOP the nerfs--they are not helping at all and they're making people scratch their head every single time. Fix the system instead.
    Last edited by Ibil; 10-06-2011 at 11:48 AM.

  2. #2
    Champion RangerRob's Avatar
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    Copy-paste bug? Ahh you fixed it, spoilsport!

    For what it's worth, I like your suggestions, BUT you have to remember it was never implemented as a grind but simply a passive bonus to your normal in-game activities at max level. People are choosing to grind it but that's entirely up to them. Still, your suggestions are for the most-part good ones and I think they would be of benefit to most players in the game. I completely agree that XP from most group activities is nearly not enough, but they were right to nerf the XP in Chronicles. It just needs some re-balancing in what you get XP for to be honest.
    Last edited by RangerRob; 10-06-2011 at 11:53 AM.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    You can also convert excess rep gains to EXP to encourage people to max out their reps, and to reward those who have already maxed them out.

    Also, why does turning in a PVP Rift Sourcestone grant 500 EXP? That's LESS THAN HALF of the EXP you will receive for killing ONE non-elite, I-can't-believe-it-died-to-a-Sanction-Heretic Stillmoor enemy. PVP Rift EXP also needs to be megabuffed through the roof.

    If any of you have ideas to fix the Planar Attunement system, feel free to share them.
    Last edited by Ibil; 10-06-2011 at 11:52 AM.

  4. #4
    Rift Master
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    It really seems people missed that this was intended as a BONUS for capped toons, not another level grind.

    Yet, here we are a little more than a week with all the QQ, about how people can't GRIND it fast enough.

  5. #5
    Champion RangerRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibil View Post
    You can also convert excess rep gains to EXP to encourage people to max out their reps, and to reward those who have already maxed them out.

    Also, why does turning in a PVP Rift Sourcestone grant 500 EXP? That's LESS THAN HALF of the EXP you will receive for killing ONE non-elite, I-can't-believe-it-died-to-a-Sanction-Heretic Stillmoor enemy. PVP Rift EXP also needs to be megabuffed through the roof.
    Again more good ideas. I especially like the one for excess Reputation contributing to PA points. However, I still think people trying to grind it are doing it wrong. I wouldn't even mind them adding a weekly cap to prevent people trying to grind it out as long as it was a cap achievable for the vast majority of players in the game. *opens can of worms*
    Last edited by RangerRob; 10-06-2011 at 11:57 AM.

  6. #6
    Rift Master
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    You shouldn't get PA for anything related to PvP, you already get more than enough for doing nothing.

    Either way, the whole PA system is weak and you're not necessarily supposed to fly thru it, so get a grip.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerRob View Post
    Copy-paste bug? Ahh you fixed it, spoilsport!

    For what it's worth, I like your suggestions, BUT you have to remember it was never implemented as a grind but simply a passive bonus to your normal in-game activities at max level. People are choosing to grind it but that's entirely up to them. Still, your suggestions are for the most-part good ones and I think they would be of benefit to most players in the game. I completely agree that XP from non-solo activities is not enough, but they were right to nerf the XP in Chronicles.
    As a passive reward at the rate normal activites that grant exp... If you filled one whole section in 6 months.. You would be lucky. In other words it's a pretty pointless activity to hype up as much as they have.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jariath View Post
    It really seems people missed that this was intended as a BONUS for capped toons, not another level grind.

    Yet, here we are a little more than a week with all the QQ, about how people can't GRIND it fast enough.
    That's super interesting except for the part where there isn't enough to do in this game for it to be a "bonus", and the addition of permanent stats to Planar Attunement makes it a prime, really obvious target for the typical raider. If there is any advantage to be had, the typical raider (or hardcore PVPer) is going to want it, and it absolutely shocks me that no one realizes this. The issue has come up approximately one million trillion times in WoW.

    To call Planar Attunement a "bonus"--to believe that players are actually going to let it come "naturally" (?! QUESTS GIVE 3K EXP and the longest, hardest raid in the game give less than half a level)--is to be so ignorant about MMOs that it's concerning.

    And you can't base a patch around Planar Attunement if you're expecting players to ignore it and simply let it happen. It's an even bigger issue for people who only get to play an hour or two a day; the Planar Attunement system is going to be virtually meaningless for them.
    Last edited by Ibil; 10-06-2011 at 12:01 PM.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Fujitasix's Avatar
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    I only have one question for the OP:

    Which is more, ULTRA or MEGA?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibil View Post
    That's super interesting except for the part where there isn't enough to do in this game for it to be a "bonus", and the addition of permanent stats to Planar Attunement makes it a prime, really obvious target for the typical raider. If there is any advantage to be had, the typical raider (or hardcore PVPer) is going to want it, and it absolutely shocks me that no one realizes this. The issue has come up approximately one million trillion times in WoW.

    To call Planar Attunement a "bonus" is to be so ignorant about MMOs that it's concerning.
    Yes, and that is there CHOICE, that does not mean the system needs redesigned to CATER to THE OMG I HAVE NO LIFE! MUST HAVE IT THIS FREAKING SECOND crowd.

  11. #11
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    How long do you think it should take to completely fill in your Tier 1 for a given plane? Assume you play about 10 hours a week. What rate of completion do you think would be good? Are you thinking one level in a week? Ten? All of them? I have no idea.

    It sounds to me like you want this stuff to be filled in pretty quickly. I was assuming it was not intended that anyone would actually be filling it in, so much as for it to just be there as a side-effect of other content people were running for its own sake.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  12. #12
    Champion RangerRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibil View Post
    If there is any advantage to be had, the typical raider (or hardcore PVPer) is going to want it, and it absolutely shocks me that no one realizes this.
    I have to tell my 3 year old "No" every once in a while even if I don't like her reaction. Sure it upsets her, sure she cries for a while, but sooner or later she will understand she's wrong. I don't see why Trion shouldn't be able to say "No" to their kids occasionally too.
    Last edited by RangerRob; 10-06-2011 at 12:04 PM.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched
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    @Ibil

    I like your suggestions, and they do add some twists to AA, but do we really need that? These changes seem plausible long term, but a short term solution is quite simple. Lower the required amount of experience needed to level one (1) planar attunement.

    I still like your ideas, but I think 500 000 experience is far too much for one level of AA.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibil View Post
    When I start to get pissed off, you know something is wrong.
    how do i know this? i don't know you? Why do kids think their thoughts are so important?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    How long do you think it should take to completely fill in your Tier 1 for a given plane? Assume you play about 10 hours a week. What rate of completion do you think would be good? Are you thinking one level in a week? Ten? All of them? I have no idea.

    It sounds to me like you want this stuff to be filled in pretty quickly. I was assuming it was not intended that anyone would actually be filling it in, so much as for it to just be there as a side-effect of other content people were running for its own sake.
    This is what the intention was, that is how it was presented. It seems the there are a minority of people who feel that it should be one plane maxed out a day or something. Personally, I have 5 points spent in mine. I do not expect to have mine maxed out in even a month of play, or even two months. And yeah, I play about 15 or so hours a week on my main.

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