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Thread: 2nd Class Players

  1. #61
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeesidhe View Post
    I have a couple thoughts on this if I may:

    1. You're viewing this from the perspective of work/investment = reward. "Casual" players view people who derive self-satisfaction from video games and get worked up over it to be very creepy and disturbing individuals whose rage is the product of years of frustrated virginity and disfiguring acne, poorly covered by neckbeards. Many people just want to enjoy the game without all the drama and rage.
    This type of game is build on the foundation of work/investment = reward. You can plainly see this by the fact that you need to earn experience to level up. The entire game is based on progression through the content. It is an interactive form of entertainment, whereas something like the television is not. You have to put in a minimum level of effort to experience the content of this game. It is not a matter of "casual" vs. "hardcore" or "group" vs "solo".

    If you can't understand this fundamental concept of this particular game then our conversation is done. Everything in this game derives from progression through time/effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeesidhe View Post

    2. It isn't about envy or pride or other such nonsense, it's about preferred play style. Why can't the solo path require an investment of time, skills, etc., they way raiding or PVP does? Why assume that "casual" = easy? To me, it just means I don't prefer to tend to using formal matchmaking to group with others. But why can't raiding, PVP and soloing all be viewed as three separate paths that ultimately end up in the same general place, results-wise?
    You said it above. Preferred play style, meaning you consciously made the choice to play the game in that manner. Accepting the fact, as mentioned above, that this game is based on the fundamental concept of work/investment = reward. You have the option to put in more work and receive a greater reward, but you choose not to do this.

    Thus, you have chosen not to be eligible for the greater rewards. No one is holding you back except yourself. You need to own your decision and understand that because you prefer to play solo, you will not receive the same rewards as those who choose to play the game as it was intended to be played.

    The only one limiting your ability to receive the highest level of rewards is yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeesidhe View Post

    3. "Casual" players often prefer to solo so as not to have to interact with people such as yourself. I'm honestly not going out of my way to be insulting; it's true. It's why the end game in WOW has such a bad reputation. Some people just want to have fun and kill monsters and not have to deal with spastic weirdos who scrutinize DPS output, scream at others who aren't rushing the right control node in PVP, or whatever.
    This is your personal choice. You can have fun and kill monsters with the rewards available to your style of play. If you want to have fun and kill harder monsters then you will need to participate in the group content the game has to offer. If you participated in the group content you would then be eligible for the rewards that you seem to crave so much, which are only necessary to complete the content that you don't want to do in the first place.

    You have the ability to do anything you want in this game, but if you make the choice not to participate in the more difficult encounters then you should not expect to receive the better rewards.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbius View Post
    "* The rewards for Chronicles - outside of taking part in the story itself! - include Planar Attunement experience, gear of use to newly-50 Ascended, and chances at unique artifacts, new and old vanity items, and mounts from prior events."

    Once again, casual, solo/duo players are destined to remain behind the curve as 2nd class citizens in yet another Raid driven MMO. I'm totally disappointed by this but I guess we should all feel honored that they allow us to see the content right? I am saddened by the shortsighted and borderline prejudicial contempt for all but the raid style game play. I expected so much more when I first read about these Chronicles but as I feared they are a half hearted attempt to placate a major portion of the players and offered up nothing of real value in the end.

    I just cannot understand the absolute contempt developers seem to have for causal, solo/duo players. Why does every piece of meaningful content have to be designed around forced grouping situations? Why does every MMO feel the need to denigrate players who don't want to Raid? This is just so damned frustrating, and I can't wait for a company to actually have the guts to change this because these long ignored players will flock to their product, I just wish it had been Trion and Rift!
    They have its called a SPRPG

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbius View Post
    I beg to differ, doing thing solo or duo does not mean that I don't appreciate the remaining portions of a multiplayer game but I also deserve the opportunity to play the way I prefer and still have the ability to progress like anyone else. As for being a minority, casual players are the vast majority, raiders are the minority in all MMO's WoW included which is why Blizzard's next MMO is being designed around causal gaming.
    You are missing the point though. The vast majority of players in an MMO are there for group play. And thus content is designed with that in mind, they want you to play that content, otherwise it is a waste of resources. So they are carroting you into doing grouping in hopes you will become acclimated to it. They will never ever spend a vast amount of resources making solo content on a true MMO. You will get more solo chronicles I am sure. But you want to play a single player game if you want appropriate rewards. These games are just not designed for single players. No matter how you want to define MMO, grouping is a part of it. You can say MMO doesn't mean that till you are blue in the face but its the way it is. I hear Skyrim is gonna be awesome.
    Planar Breach Support Open World PVP and PVE!
    Sourcewell and PVP Rift Objective Based PVP A more resource efficient way of adding Open World Objective based PVP!
    Ember Isle Open World Style PVP Repurposing Lets do something with this amazing zone!

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lande View Post
    I totally called it. I knew the moment you gave solo players something to do they would complain about not having the same rewards as raiders. So predictable it's funny.

    Trion needs to stop catering to these types of players. It will do nothing but destroy the game.
    Blizzard never seemed to grasp some players simply act like "the homeless" from south park.

    "change.... got any change?"
    "i was saving $20. i was going to buy myself a new game, but you could use it more. here."
    ".... got anymore?"

    some people just love being unhappy. you could sit down and design the game exactly the way they want and it wouldnt make them happy. (again, look back at blizzard)

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by latelifeplayer View Post
    i've been known to be wrong before, but this:
    == FEATURES ==
    * New Chronicles, epic storyline experiences for solo and duo players, become available with 1.5. See CHRONICLES, below. (bolding mine)
    to me at least, is saying that Chronicles IS ACTUALLY TARGETED TO SOLO PLAYERS.

    therefore, your entire rant would appear to be rather baseless.
    Its not about the solo content he wants phat raid lewts! From his solo content.

  6. #66
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    One of your key premises for this argument seems to be "I want solo play options that are just as hard and as rewarding as 10/20 man content!" because this would then justify you having the same loot as raiders, correct? Well sit back and let papa pally let you know why that's impossible.

    Solo play will never and can never be as complex as group play. Why? It's simple, when the dev's are making a 10 man, or even a 5 man, piece of content, they go into it knowing it's possible for the players to select a group to come into that instance, and that within that group can be members of every class/calling, so therefor they can overcome any potential obstacle the devs throw at them. As such they don't walk in worrying about whether the group will be capable of debuffing the boss or cleansing each other in order to survive, they just put in the mechanics they think will make it a challenge.

    Now let's look at the other end of the field shall we? In solo play, the dev's have to walk into the drawing room going "What challenges can we put in place that every single class has the tools to overcome?" This is a completely different mindset and severely hampers the potential challenges which can be put in place. There are alot of mechanics they would be forced to shelve due to the fact that if they used that mechanic, only certain classes could dependably beat that fight.

    So, hopefully this cleared up your misconceptions on what differentiates solo and group play mechanics.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cord 8D View Post
    Don't go playing Hello Kitty World expecting to lop off heads.....
    Wait, what? Dammit cancelling my download right now!

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auvic View Post
    Desperate nonsensical whine.
    Cool story bro. Hey, maybe you should go play Everquest 1, because it's clear Rift does cater to solo players or the Chronicles (and quest system...) wouldn't exist. I'm glad you appointed yourself emperor of what's allowed in Rift though, can you fix some of those bugs while you're at it?

    I'm not saying they should change anything about the Raid content. I'm saying I want to be able to progress in the end-game when I have less than three-hours to devote to the game.
    Last edited by nocks; 09-28-2011 at 11:13 AM.

  9. #69
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    Yeah that's why they keep making the effort and time put into something by a Raider or other worthless, because they despise you... no, they despise challenge or effort.

    Everyone that can be earned through high end is given to you little brats.

    Get over it, you pay to play a game where time is required. If you can't raid you don't deserve RAID loot.

    PERIOD.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocks View Post
    Cool story bro. Hey, maybe you should go play Everquest 1, because it's clear Rift does cater to solo players or the Chronicles (and quest system...) wouldn't exist. I'm glad you appointed yourself emperor of what's allowed in Rift though, can you fix some of those bugs while you're at it?

    I'm not saying they should change anything about the Raid content. I'm saying I want to be able to progress in the end-game when I have less than three-hours to devote to the game.
    If you have less than three hours, that's much more than half an hour. Don't give inaccurate reasoning then blame people for taking you seriously.

    Less than three hours, progress in the end game?

    Sounds exactly like a casual raider to me. End-game is more or less pursuit of story (read:chronicles) or loot (read:raiding) or achieves/spiffy-looking-things (read:exploration).
    There's time constraints to them all, and there's plenty of people that want each of them.

    And yeah, I raided with a casual raiding guild for under three hours a night on our raid nights for over half a year. Doable? Certainly.

    Have you even tried looking for a casual raiding guild?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paerin View Post
    This type of game is build on the foundation of work/investment = reward. You can plainly see this by the fact that you need to earn experience to level up. The entire game is based on progression through the content. It is an interactive form of entertainment, whereas something like the television is not. You have to put in a minimum level of effort to experience the content of this game. It is not a matter of "casual" vs. "hardcore" or "group" vs "solo".

    If you can't understand this fundamental concept of this particular game then our conversation is done. Everything in this game derives from progression through time/effort.

    .
    I think i'm in love, have my hybrid babies.
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    Thanks for the fun time Trion and Belmont Guardians for the Extra Life Event!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auvic View Post
    I schedule my life around video games
    Cool. Well some of the rest of us can't keep a schedule like that, we've got happy love to do. In fact, the vast majority of Rift's players are that way - so prepare for more solo-able, shorter content to appease them. Sorry if you thought this was a hardcore raider's game, but the proof is in the patch-notes.

    Should Raid content give the best gear? Sure. Should that be the only end-game available? Of course not, or Trion wouldn't have added PVP Warfronts, Achievements, and Crafting to their game.
    Last edited by Walsingham; 09-28-2011 at 12:13 PM. Reason: Language

  13. #73
    Prophet of Telara Lande's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDrizzle404 View Post
    Blizzard never seemed to grasp some players simply act like "the homeless" from south park.

    "change.... got any change?"
    "i was saving $20. i was going to buy myself a new game, but you could use it more. here."
    ".... got anymore?"

    some people just love being unhappy. you could sit down and design the game exactly the way they want and it wouldnt make them happy. (again, look back at blizzard)
    Well, you win for the best way to explain the mentality. Kudos.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss616 View Post
    If you do not raid the why would you need the gear? ... I donít get the issue here to be honest.
    What else a lvl 50 player should do then if they don't want to raid? quit?
    Quote Originally Posted by Viln View Post

    PvP is a test of manhood and most of you will fail.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordan View Post
    What else a lvl 50 player should do then if they don't want to raid? quit?
    That's what Trion is afraid of, now that they're realizing only a small portion of their playerbase ever steps foot in a Raid. If there's one thing Trion is good at, it's measuring how much mileage they get out of their hard work and content. They've stated repeatedly that this is a goal of theirs.

    That's why we're already getting - and will continue to get - more smaller-scale content like Master Mode dungeons and Chronicles, and more solo-advancement, like Planar Attunement.

    You can also bet that someday, gear you can only get through raid content now will be available for solo players. So go ahead and get those tears out now, if that bothers you - it's already begun with the introduction of raid marks to T2's. They will add a harder raid or two, but everything people are raiding for now.. will eventually be easy to get for a solo/small group player.
    Last edited by nocks; 09-28-2011 at 11:35 AM.

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