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Thread: 2nd Class Players

  1. #16
    Sword of Telara Zahne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony01 View Post
    He doesn't want to make the commitment but wants all the reward of doing so.


    Look at me! Look at me! I'm walking! I'm walking!

    Where's my reward?

    lol

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbius View Post
    I beg to differ, doing thing solo or duo does not mean that I don't appreciate the remaining portions of a multiplayer game but I also deserve the opportunity to play the way I prefer and still have the ability to progress like anyone else. As for being a minority, casual players are the vast majority, raiders are the minority in all MMO's WoW included which is why Blizzard's next MMO is being designed around causal gaming.
    progress towards what? I dont understand why people want better and better gear if they arent going to use it on game content. If the solo player content actually progressed at endgame and required better gear then yes...that would be great if you could get that gear playing in your prefered playstyle (solo) but as it stands progression at end game is raiding or at least dungeons and thats group content. 2 chronicles isnt progression...finishing your unfinished quests or hunting artifacts or any of the other current solo content isnt really progression is it?

    the gear in this game keeps me barely equipped to handle the content I am facing as I progress...without the progression the gear is not needed. I never feel powerful in my gear as i progress, only that its barely up to the task at hand and ITs not like it even looks cooler or anything...
    (currently in transition from T2 to T3 gear) bout 50/50
    Last edited by Chovie; 09-28-2011 at 08:44 AM.

  3. #18
    Rift Master Pope Zaphod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbius View Post
    I beg to differ, doing thing solo or duo does not mean that I don't appreciate the remaining portions of a multiplayer game but I also deserve the opportunity to play the way I prefer and still have the ability to progress like anyone else.
    Rift is like that other MMO in that once you hit the level cap the game changes. It sounds to me like you'd rather have the level cap increased so you can keep questing instead of playing the "new" game at Lv50.

  4. #19
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHangman View Post
    * Chronicles, epic storyline experiences for duos and strong solo characters, begin rolling out with 1.5.
    * The Chronicles of Attunement is a solo experience for all characters who reach level 50, congratulating them on their journey and introducing players to the Planar Attunement system.
    * Duo or strong solo 50s can enter the Chronicles version of Greenscale's Blight or Hammerknell to take part in additional storylines separate from the Raid versions of these zones.
    * The rewards for Chronicles - outside of taking part in the story itself! - include Planar Attunement experience, gear of use to newly-50 Ascended, and chances at unique artifacts, new and old vanity items, and mounts from prior events

    Kinda looks to me like they've developed content specificlly for solo and duo players...what exactly are you complaining about again?
    Why should we not be rewarded with the same tier of gear raiders can expect if the content is as difficult, the answer is simple? You don't raid; you don't get the good gear. I want good meaningful solo/duo content with the same rewards, this obviously isn't it. As I mentioned itís something put in which is supposed to placate the player base that has been looking for much more, at least I have.

  5. #20
    Ascendant TheHangman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony01 View Post
    He's complaining because he believes that 1 or 2 people working at a smaller, less challenging, more spammable "raid" deserves the same reward as 20 people working at a larger, harder, and time restricted raid.
    Honestly?

    The idea of doing that wouldn't even have occurred to me, which explains my confusion I guess.

  6. #21
    Ascendant TheHangman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbius View Post
    Why should we not be rewarded with the same tier of gear raiders can expect if the content is as difficult, the answer is simple? You don't raid; you don't get the good gear. I want good meaningful solo/duo content with the same rewards, this obviously isn't it. As I mentioned itís something put in which is supposed to placate the player base that has been looking for much more, at least I have.
    This makes absolutely no sense.

    Please stop.

  7. #22
    Rift Disciple jamesab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbius View Post
    "* The rewards for Chronicles - outside of taking part in the story itself! - include Planar Attunement experience, gear of use to newly-50 Ascended, and chances at unique artifacts, new and old vanity items, and mounts from prior events."

    Once again, casual, solo/duo players are destined to remain behind the curve as 2nd class citizens in yet another Raid driven MMO. I'm totally disappointed by this but I guess we should all feel honored that they allow us to see the content right? I am saddened by the shortsighted and borderline prejudicial contempt for all but the raid style game play. I expected so much more when I first read about these Chronicles but as I feared they are a half hearted attempt to placate a major portion of the players and offered up nothing of real value in the end.

    I just cannot understand the absolute contempt developers seem to have for causal, solo/duo players. Why does every piece of meaningful content have to be designed around forced grouping situations? Why does every MMO feel the need to denigrate players who don't want to Raid? This is just so damned frustrating, and I can't wait for a company to actually have the guts to change this because these long ignored players will flock to their product, I just wish it had been Trion and Rift!
    Why should a Solo, casual get the rewards for doing something on their own when its so much harder to get it in a group that has to work together and stay organized through the fight. Honestly the only time you would have a relevant point would be for crafting mats only earned through raids. But as far as gear goes, of course it should go to the people that plan out raids, go to raids and have to rely on another set # of people to get the job done.

    Where is the skill of having 2 people or a solo person going in and defeating a boss? So ya you are lucky that trion is letting you participate in end game story content as a solo player or a duo team. In all honesty im surprised that trion isnt taking more flame from the raiders, because it almost takes away from the effort and achievement they put into seeing the end game content, outside of gear.
    Last edited by jamesab; 09-28-2011 at 08:50 AM.

  8. #23
    Champion RangerRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbius View Post
    I beg to differ, doing thing solo or duo does not mean that I don't appreciate the remaining portions of a multiplayer game but I also deserve the opportunity to play the way I prefer and still have the ability to progress like anyone else. As for being a minority, casual players are the vast majority, raiders are the minority in all MMO's WoW included which is why Blizzard's next MMO is being designed around causal gaming.
    You think casual players don't raid? I don't raid myself and I'm a casual player but I used to be a casual raider. Sorry but you're wrong and people should not be handed out raid level gear for soloing. As others have said, what the heck would we use it for anyway? All it would do is make the content we have access to even simpler than it already is.

    I think these look great and I don't expect raid rewards when I'm not raiding, in fact I'd prefer not to have them because the 5-man and solo content is easy enough without over-gearing it.
    Last edited by RangerRob; 09-28-2011 at 08:52 AM.

  9. #24
    Sword of Telara Zahne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbius View Post
    Why should we not be rewarded with the same tier of gear raiders can expect if the content is as difficult, the answer is simple? You don't raid; you don't get the good gear. I want good meaningful solo/duo content with the same rewards, this obviously isn't it. As I mentioned itís something put in which is supposed to placate the player base that has been looking for much more, at least I have.

    Solo content will never be as difficult as Raid content. If you cannot understand that, I suggest you find a small casual raiding guild who will take you along to some raids.

    Pay attention to how difficult it is to:

    - Make sure 20 people are present
    - Make sure specific class combinations and skill combinations are present
    - Make sure gear is up to snuff for the content (Focus, Hit)
    - Get everyone to pay attention
    - Assign roles to each one of those 20 people, and make sure they're doing them


    You cannot compare solo to raid in any aspect, and nothing you do that's solo will ever be nearly as difficult as raid content currently is.


    That's why.

  10. #25
    Shield of Telara Verja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahne View Post
    Solo content will never be as difficult as Raid content. If you cannot understand that, I suggest you find a small casual raiding guild who will take you along to some raids.

    Pay attention to how difficult it is to:

    - Make sure 20 people are present
    - Make sure specific class combinations and skill combinations are present
    - Make sure gear is up to snuff for the content (Focus, Hit)
    - Get everyone to pay attention
    - Assign roles to each one of those 20 people, and make sure they're doing them


    You cannot compare solo to raid in any aspect, and nothing you do that's solo will ever be nearly as difficult as raid content currently is.


    That's why.
    So what you're saying is you should be rewarded better gear because you have to tell people what to do?

    Yeah that makes sense. If you are with a competent group of players raiding isn't hard. It's other players messing up that wipes the raid that is hard in that regard.

    It's sad that the hardest part of the game is getting other players to not suck though.
    The daemonic are without number, and their legions span the galaxy. But faith does not tire. Should it take us an eternity, the Ordo malleus will find and exterminate them all. - Lord Hephaestos Grudd

  11. #26
    Telaran
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    I realized the folly of trying to get people to understand my point 10 seconds after I posted the thread. I don't want freebies, I want the same challenging content as raids with the same rewards because I accomplished it on my own or with a two person group; not being coddled or carried through by 19 other people.
    Iíll boil it down to these points;
    - I prefer solo/duo play but I want the content to be meaningful and challenging and be rewarded for completing it
    - I donít enjoy having to always group to play this type of content, partially due to the time it takes to organize and partially due to the enjoyment of playing alone or with my spouse as opposed to a large group of strangers
    - It also offers people the ability to progress their gear in a play style doing difficult content so when the time comes they want to hop into a raid or help out their guild members they can do so

    I donít expect everyone to want to play this way so they shouldnít expect everyone else to be forced to play the style they enjoy. As for gearing up, this doesnít negatively affect anyone else if Iíve been able to succeed in completing this difficult content alone or in a small group.

  12. #27
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahne View Post
    Solo content will never be as difficult as Raid content. If you cannot understand that, I suggest you find a small casual raiding guild who will take you along to some raids.

    Pay attention to how difficult it is to:

    - Make sure 20 people are present
    - Make sure specific class combinations and skill combinations are present
    - Make sure gear is up to snuff for the content (Focus, Hit)
    - Get everyone to pay attention
    - Assign roles to each one of those 20 people, and make sure they're doing them


    You cannot compare solo to raid in any aspect, and nothing you do that's solo will ever be nearly as difficult as raid content currently is.


    That's why.
    Maybe if Trion sent a dragon to your house that you had to slay with your bare hands.

    Still probably easier than getting my guild to pay attention, though.

  13. #28
    Telaran Jadal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbius View Post
    I beg to differ, doing thing solo or duo does not mean that I don't appreciate the remaining portions of a multiplayer game but I also deserve the opportunity to play the way I prefer and still have the ability to progress like anyone else. As for being a minority, casual players are the vast majority, raiders are the minority in all MMO's WoW included which is why Blizzard's next MMO is being designed around causal gaming.
    First, you don't "deserve" anything. Trion is offering you "this" for "that". As a customer there is some value to your opinion but it is only that; an opinion. When you start talking about what you deserve your entire argument falls apart. It probably isn't necessary to into how your payment to Trion is in essence telling them that you like the content, at the very least in relation to the amount of money you are paying. Nuff said.

    As a group, "soloers" are certainly considered. Almost all of the content in game is solo content except for the instances and rifts at the higher levels. They are coming out with dungeons that don't require big parties so once again soloers are considered. But even then, there shouldn't be an expectation that the rewards for that content are on par with the rewards for a 20 man raid. What is fair is only one consideration. Another consideration is purely economical in the sense that people will gravitate towards the most reward for their time and money. If I can two man and receive the same reward as if I raided then why would anyone raid?

    Lastly, what usually gets lost in these conversations is the fact that gaming companies, especially at this stage of the genre, are influenced by human psychology and have a working understanding of the same. Soloers may never get or want to do raid content. But there is another part of ourselves that wants something even if we know we will never get it. We continue to strive for that thing or are simply envious of others when they get it. At the very least there is a small part of us that believes we can achieve the same thing even if there is no rational basis for such a belief. The genre is replete with examples of this as is real life.

    .02

  14. #29
    Sword of Telara Zahne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verja View Post
    So what you're saying is you should be rewarded better gear because you have to tell people what to do?

    Yeah that makes sense. If you are with a competent group of players raiding isn't hard. It's other players messing up that wipes the raid that is hard in that regard.

    It's sad that the hardest part of the game is getting other players to not suck though.


    I'm not sure how much more simple I can make this. Let's recap:


    Your argument in a nutshell is: I think I should get top tier raid-gear for solo content even though it isn't required for any of the content I'm willing to experience. I don't actually need it, I just want it because other people have it. Waaah.

    (Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am)


    As things stand:


    Solo content: Drops gear that's great for solo players.
    Group content: Drops gear that's great for group content players.
    Raid content: Drops gear that's great for raiders.


    What you are proposing:

    Solo content: Gets raid gear
    Group content: Gets raid gear
    Raid content: Gets raid gear


    Congrats! You are actually suggesting they destroy a multiplayer game, by removing any need to group or attempt multi-player content.

    It sounds like you need a single-player offline RPG. Because that's what you're asking for.

  15. #30
    Sword of Telara Zahne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbius View Post
    I realized the folly of trying to get people to understand my point 10 seconds after I posted the thread. I don't want freebies, I want the same challenging content as raids with the same rewards because I accomplished it on my own or with a two person group; not being coddled or carried through by 19 other people.


    Look, fair enough. But understand if you get the *same* rewards from solo, there's no point to raiding. You are attempting to create the very same problem you claim to experience for other people.


    I have to ask you, what's the point in the rest of the content in this game if your changes are made? Do you honestly think people will raid or group if they can solo the same gear?

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