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Thread: Inspecting Eachother's Soul Builds?

  1. #76
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    I don't get this sorry... You could look at me one minute and like presto I could change it to something completely different. Unlike gear your able to swap it around at will. Also I find that by the time I get to 50 I have like two trees at max and the third empty, was the same for all my chars really. Why would knowing that someone had put three points in a skill matter.. Seems a bit pointless. But then I never inspect anyone anyway.

  2. #77
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    why do you really have a need to inspect someones spec or feel the need to link it? is it to help them or to tell them that you know more than them and they should have spec x instead of spec y? do you really know your stuff or just think you do?

    i have met alot of people who are so called "experts" in this game and in fact are really idiots repeating info on a forum 3 months old which is obsolete. heck after some patches stuff a week old is is worthless.

    lets face it not everyone who plays these games are going to be average or above average players. it isnt thier specs fault but to thier defense they are having fun and realize it is a game.

    if you feel you need to only group with the average or above player then join a guild that has them. if you petitioned to have the lfd then suck it up buttercup and deal with what it brought!

  3. #78
    Ascendant Landru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    Why?

    You're mixing up players and characters here. My character should be able to determine your build by watching you fight. I, the player, should be able to get any information my character knows through the UI.
    Why? Because I do. Why ask why?

    So, help me understand how it is your character...you know, the one you don't play...knows I have points spent in Bomb Specialist...or Penetrating Strikes...or Eagle Eye...or...any other passive skill based on watching my character in combat.
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilterendi View Post
    Silly to say they are different. It is merely a different way of accomplishing the exact same task.

    Instead of "ur spec suxors" you'll see, "lfm pst with spec link; ur spec must be XX or don't apply." THEN you'll start having plagues of generalized specs and hazing for those that don't use them.

    Don't get me wrong, I agree that they'd be useful. But do not confuse a useful tool with something you can't abuse. For the mean time, TS/Mumble/vent works just fine for zam-spec-linking.

    Sounds like the new "GearScore" program to me. We should call it "MySpec," or something like it.

    We know where that got us (WoW reference.)

  5. #80
    Plane Touched Ilterendi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oothoo View Post
    why do you really have a need to inspect someones spec or feel the need to link it? is it to help them or to tell them that you know more than them and they should have spec x instead of spec y? do you really know your stuff or just think you do?

    i have met alot of people who are so called "experts" in this game and in fact are really idiots repeating info on a forum 3 months old which is obsolete. heck after some patches stuff a week old is is worthless.

    lets face it not everyone who plays these games are going to be average or above average players. it isnt thier specs fault but to thier defense they are having fun and realize it is a game.

    if you feel you need to only group with the average or above player then join a guild that has them. if you petitioned to have the lfd then suck it up buttercup and deal with what it brought!
    While I have no gripe about not implementing a /inspect soul feature, as zam works just fine, I do have an issue where you said "suck it up buttercup" in LFD. I don't mind doing most of the dps, which isn't always the case. I don't mind helping a new tank or healer. I don't mind lowering my dps in order to help the tank maintain aggro. I DO have an issue when my group consistently wipes on fights that are simple because player XX can not maintain enough contribution to succeed. I've been through multiple dungeons where a player has a botched spec and is holding back our group. I understand there is the /vote kick, I try not to use it. Heck, just yesterday I got placed in a group with a tank that had 28 points invested into the paragon tree and the remainder into voidknight and warlord, this is a "wtf were you thinking" moment for most warrior tanks. He was not only in greens but they were terrible greens. Regardless, we kept trying to keep aggro on him, kept trying to heal him. In the end we asked his spec as the healer was limited mostly to watching him pull then die. His response was crude and called our group scrubs with bad specs. Be mindful that, in the beginning before he became a jerk, we were trying to help him. Needless to say, we kicked the horrible 'tank' and received a wonderful replacement which lead us on to complete the instance without a single hitch. I was also doing +60% of the dps in this run, from start to finish. The healer kept linking his parser as he was showcasing dps/hps to the group, not sure why. The healer made comments such as "thank god we have 'Ilterendi'". My response was always, "as long as stuff dies before we do, dps doesn't matter.

    I pull a large amount of dps in randoms and raids. While I do, in fact, enjoy competition on the parser, I do not try to 'force my speccing' on others. If they want to know they can ask. If I see someone who's struggling I'll ask if they would like some help and I'll help them with my experiences of 'what works' and provide them with resources I used.

    Back to topic.
    Spec Inspecting could be a very useful tool. Spec Linking could be as well. Both, however, could lead to harrasement options for those players who aim to grief. I can understand both sides of the argument, I really do. If Trion includes it, cool. If they don't, Zam still works just fine.

    The sum up, it's your $15 a month that lets you have fun your way and when and how you want it. But the moment you decide to queue for a random dungeon, it's not up to the other to just "suck it up", you need to lessen the impact that your fun has on the group or don't be upset when you get vote kicked. I fully support 'goofy specs' and solo specs can really be quite fun.
    "Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens." - J. R. R. Tolkien

  6. #81
    Champion Ikagawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raptor7 View Post
    Sounds like the new "GearScore" program to me. We should call it "MySpec," or something like it.

    We know where that got us (WoW reference.)
    Once again, for the hundred, billionth time: The add on is not the problem. Stupid people are.

  7. #82
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    Nobody will ever be allowed to look at or dominate my souls trees. My characters are mine to control! 'grrr'

    v.v I love Warden/sentinal Clerics.
    Last edited by Lienda; 08-24-2011 at 04:42 PM.
    Apparently, I cheered about the last green puzzle piece for nothing. I can't play now at all.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilterendi View Post
    While I have no gripe about not implementing a /inspect soul feature, as zam works just fine, I do have an issue where you said "suck it up buttercup" in LFD. I don't mind doing most of the dps, which isn't always the case. I don't mind helping a new tank or healer. I don't mind lowering my dps in order to help the tank maintain aggro. I DO have an issue when my group consistently wipes on fights that are simple because player XX can not maintain enough contribution to succeed. I've been through multiple dungeons where a player has a botched spec and is holding back our group. I understand there is the /vote kick, I try not to use it. Heck, just yesterday I got placed in a group with a tank that had 28 points invested into the paragon tree and the remainder into voidknight and warlord, this is a "wtf were you thinking" moment for most warrior tanks. He was not only in greens but they were terrible greens. Regardless, we kept trying to keep aggro on him, kept trying to heal him. In the end we asked his spec as the healer was limited mostly to watching him pull then die. His response was crude and called our group scrubs with bad specs. Be mindful that, in the beginning before he became a jerk, we were trying to help him. Needless to say, we kicked the horrible 'tank' and received a wonderful replacement which lead us on to complete the instance without a single hitch. I was also doing +60% of the dps in this run, from start to finish. The healer kept linking his parser as he was showcasing dps/hps to the group, not sure why. The healer made comments such as "thank god we have 'Ilterendi'". My response was always, "as long as stuff dies before we do, dps doesn't matter.

    I pull a large amount of dps in randoms and raids. While I do, in fact, enjoy competition on the parser, I do not try to 'force my speccing' on others. If they want to know they can ask. If I see someone who's struggling I'll ask if they would like some help and I'll help them with my experiences of 'what works' and provide them with resources I used.

    Back to topic.
    Spec Inspecting could be a very useful tool. Spec Linking could be as well. Both, however, could lead to harrasement options for those players who aim to grief. I can understand both sides of the argument, I really do. If Trion includes it, cool. If they don't, Zam still works just fine.

    The sum up, it's your $15 a month that lets you have fun your way and when and how you want it. But the moment you decide to queue for a random dungeon, it's not up to the other to just "suck it up", you need to lessen the impact that your fun has on the group or don't be upset when you get vote kicked. I fully support 'goofy specs' and solo specs can really be quite fun.

    But see, you're the kind of person I would want to show my spec to if I was struggling. You're someone who would help me get better if I wanted, but still realize it's my $15. I never have problems with people like you when it comes to spec, gearscore, etc. And I bet the majority of the community is like you (20+ pug T1 runs and no real jerks so far).
    The only problem I would ever have is that vocal minority. And that is the reason I'd want it set to private or allow me to link only.
    It's just my opinion but I guess I could at least weed out the jerks that ask for /inspect as soon as I enter the dungeon just to see if I'm speced X.
    I try and make myself as group useful as I can but I hate cookie cutters and I won't sacrifice 100% fun for a good run. I gotta get me like 5% fun in a spec to run it.

  9. #84
    Prophet of Telara Artorous's Avatar
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    They could have the best gear and build and it wouldn't matter for some people. I was with a group doing xAP yesterday, 3 of the players had full T2 gear mixed in with the new crafted gear, one even had the Sylvian Greatblade. We made our way up the first boss and proceeded to wipe 5x because they wouldn't stop DPSing when the boss started to cast his 1hit KO move.

    They had the best cookie cutter builds they could use along with being extremely overgeared for the content at hand but they couldn't follow the simple instructions of "don't stand in the stoopid". The point is it doesn't matter if you have the best of the best of everything if you don't know how to use it it's pointless.

    I like to tank T2's with a Warlord build, so long as the healer is somewhat geared. It's not the best tank spec out there but it's a build that I find FUN and more interesting than my 51p VK tank spec. It doesn't matter that I can tank just fine with it and no one dies and I have 0 agro problems, there's always going to be someone somewhere that thinks it's crap and I shouldn't be tanking because WL sucks (not saying I've actually had anyone say that to my face yet). When DPSing on my Mage I liked using Pyro/Ele long before it became one of the main go to specs. It did just fine and we never had any problems but people still complained because it wasn't the cookie cutter go to spec that I should have been using.

    While not everyone would abuse the system it would eventually lead to many people getting angry and wanting to boot people because they're not using the build the forums said they're suppose to be using. It doesn't matter that the person is paying $15 a month to enjoy a game. Most wipes are caused because someone stands where they're not suppose to and it doesn't matter what build or gear they have it's not going to fix their stupidity.

    Edit: And I wouldn't be opposed to a link function as I do like to share my builds every once in a while but I don't want an inspect function.
    Last edited by Artorous; 08-24-2011 at 05:07 PM.
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  10. #85
    Plane Touched Ilterendi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raptor00 View Post
    But see, you're the kind of person I would want to show my spec to if I was struggling. You're someone who would help me get better if I wanted, but still realize it's my $15. I never have problems with people like you when it comes to spec, gearscore, etc. And I bet the majority of the community is like you (20+ pug T1 runs and no real jerks so far).
    The only problem I would ever have is that vocal minority. And that is the reason I'd want it set to private or allow me to link only.
    It's just my opinion but I guess I could at least weed out the jerks that ask for /inspect as soon as I enter the dungeon just to see if I'm speced X.
    I try and make myself as group useful as I can but I hate cookie cutters and I won't sacrifice 100% fun for a good run. I gotta get me like 5% fun in a spec to run it.
    Thanks.

    Artorous

    They could have the best gear and build and it wouldn't matter for some people. I was with a group doing xAP yesterday, 3 of the players had full T2 gear mixed in with the new crafted gear, one even had the Sylvian Greatblade. We made our way up the first boss and proceeded to wipe 5x because they wouldn't stop DPSing when the boss started to cast his 1hit KO move.

    They had the best cookie cutter builds they could use along with being extremely overgeared for the content at hand but they couldn't follow the simple instructions of "don't stand in the stoopid". The point is it doesn't matter if you have the best of the best of everything if you don't know how to use it it's pointless.

    I like to tank T2's with a Warlord build, so long as the healer is somewhat geared. It's not the best tank spec out there but it's a build that I find FUN and more interesting than my 51p VK tank spec. It doesn't matter that I can tank just fine with it and no one dies and I have 0 agro problems, there's always going to be someone somewhere that thinks it's crap and I shouldn't be tanking because WL sucks (not saying I've actually had anyone say that to my face yet). When DPSing on my Mage I liked using Pyro/Ele long before it became one of the main go to specs. It did just fine and we never had any problems but people still complained because it wasn't the cookie cutter go to spec that I should have been using.

    While not everyone would abuse the system it would eventually lead to many people getting angry and wanting to boot people because they're not using the build the forums said they're suppose to be using. It doesn't matter that the person is paying $15 a month to enjoy a game. Most wipes are caused because someone stands where they're not suppose to and it doesn't matter what build or gear they have it's not going to fix their stupidity.

    Edit: And I wouldn't be opposed to a link function as I do like to share my builds every once in a while but I don't want an inspect function.

    1. Good specs do not make players good, good specs makes good players better.
    2. Standing is failzones/badchecks or whatever you call is bad, always.
    This reminds me of a time that I got grieved for getting hit by the first bosses fail cast. It was to help prevent a wipe due to the fact that the tank had the boss in a bad position and I had the debuff that casts people away. So I had three options. 1. Run into cave, kill tank. 2. Run to crystal, kill healer. 3. Sacrifice myself so no one else would die, and run back and finish the kill. I took option three and got kicked. The group was a xserver full of guildies. Whatever, if they couldn't see that I did my best to help them they don't deserve my contribution.

    As far as what spec/role you wish to do in dungeons... Whatever works for you. I don't care if you want to spec a rogue into 51 Nightblade, as long as stuff dies and you're not actually holding the progression back I don't care. Do what you love. It it makes the dungeon crawl a bit slower, I don't mind. I do use a cookie cutter spec or two. I try to tweak it, where I can. I do not expect everyone I run with to use cookie cutters. I hope that they're not, actually. The soul system is the most unique feature this game has, I'd hate to see it squandered by a majority of players harassing others due to differences is specs.
    "Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens." - J. R. R. Tolkien

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shannae View Post
    Forget competition, everyone who is not cookie cutter top whatever spec will get grief if ******s can inspect their build. Whether they beat said ****** with his cookiecutter spec or not.
    THIS

    Am already sick of this parser crap, that seems to give players the right to decide if you allowed to exsist in rift or not.
    Don't even think what will happen if you have even the ONE point "misplaced"

    I didn't come to play Rift to be one of the gazillion clones out there.

  12. #87
    Plane Touched Ilterendi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umfufu View Post
    THIS

    Am already sick of this parser crap, that seems to give players the right to decide if you allowed to exsist in rift or not.
    Don't even think what will happen if you have even the ONE point "misplaced"

    I didn't come to play Rift to be one of the gazillion clones out there.
    And just think, with addon coming out things are likely to get much MUCH worse. To run parsers you have to have a bit of knowledge in order to read and follow instructions. Most dps meters, which are likely making their way in as soon as 1.5 hits, are point and click mechanics at curse.com.

    And "my right to decide" begins when my group is struggling and failing due to the fact that one person cannot adequately pull his/her weight. If s/he is unresponsive to assistance from players that may have more knowledge/experience then a vote kick is not out of the question.

    But like I said earlier, I don't care if I get an under-geared group and end up carrying a majority of the weight of the dpser's. If we can succeed, we can move on. If we cannot, we diagnose and fix the problem. If it can be helped, when a kick happens, I try to provide that person with advice and a respectful and polite reason for the kick. If the person is a jerk, a response in kind is what that person will receive.
    "Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens." - J. R. R. Tolkien

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilterendi View Post
    And just think, with addon coming out things are likely to get much MUCH worse. To run parsers you have to have a bit of knowledge in order to read and follow instructions. Most dps meters, which are likely making their way in as soon as 1.5 hits, are point and click mechanics at curse.com.

    And "my right to decide" begins when my group is struggling and failing due to the fact that one person cannot adequately pull his/her weight. If s/he is unresponsive to assistance from players that may have more knowledge/experience then a vote kick is not out of the question.

    But like I said earlier, I don't care if I get an under-geared group and end up carrying a majority of the weight of the dpser's. If we can succeed, we can move on. If we cannot, we diagnose and fix the problem. If it can be helped, when a kick happens, I try to provide that person with advice and a respectful and polite reason for the kick. If the person is a jerk, a response in kind is what that person will receive.
    Not all act like you ...
    From what I have seen mostly sofar is people judging buy pure numbers.

    I don't care if one dps scores highest, if he doesn't know when to stop hitting after taking the aggro off tank, or pulling in extra aggro cause he thinks he is rambo.

    What I am saying in the end, for me at least, is how "wisely" a player plays, not the number he can dish out.

    I played rift from the start, and already very early I started to spec on spellcrit more then sp, and got ridiculed for it, used the hybrid spec early and got riduculed for it ....
    Used specific blue items for a long time and got judged on this.
    All cause closeminded peoples didn't realized back then that some blues were even better then some epics, they just saw the colors.

    So looking at my gear alone (inspect), made people judge me without even seeing me play and perform.

    Imagine these types of peoples looking at your soultree ... and decide 1 or 2 points are "wrong"

    This is one main reason I hardly play Rift anymore, I come here to play for fun, not to compete all day with closeminders, and not to play the FotM and be one of a million clone, cause one decided it is so.
    I play what is comfortable to me and works for me.
    If I perform well all is fine, I am guessing if I do not I would be kicked.

    ie
    Some Warden spec maybe the cookie cutter FotM spec, but I just cannot deal with keeping up ss all the time, it drives me mad.
    So even if I have the cookie cutter setup, it doesn't mean I can play it well, though one can see my soul and think .. that's an ok setup .. but in the field I very well may suck at it ...

  14. #89
    Prophet of Telara Artorous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilterendi View Post
    Thanks.




    1. Good specs do not make players good, good specs makes good players better.
    2. Standing is failzones/badchecks or whatever you call is bad, always.
    This reminds me of a time that I got grieved for getting hit by the first bosses fail cast. It was to help prevent a wipe due to the fact that the tank had the boss in a bad position and I had the debuff that casts people away. So I had three options. 1. Run into cave, kill tank. 2. Run to crystal, kill healer. 3. Sacrifice myself so no one else would die, and run back and finish the kill. I took option three and got kicked. The group was a xserver full of guildies. Whatever, if they couldn't see that I did my best to help them they don't deserve my contribution.

    As far as what spec/role you wish to do in dungeons... Whatever works for you. I don't care if you want to spec a rogue into 51 Nightblade, as long as stuff dies and you're not actually holding the progression back I don't care. Do what you love. It it makes the dungeon crawl a bit slower, I don't mind. I do use a cookie cutter spec or two. I try to tweak it, where I can. I do not expect everyone I run with to use cookie cutters. I hope that they're not, actually. The soul system is the most unique feature this game has, I'd hate to see it squandered by a majority of players harassing others due to differences is specs.
    I don't know if you're agreeing or disagreeing with what I said. I know that good specs make good players better and standing in the stoopid is always bad.

    When I tank and happen to wipe it's almost always because people weren't avoiding the AoE or standing in front of the boss when he's cleaving or something stupid like that, sometimes it is my fault (like not managing to make it back to the Werewolf boss before he AoE's everyone to death). Generally they are using great specs and have great gear but it doesn't matter if you have T2 Relic Gear and the best Min/Max group, if you stand in the AoE when a boss is doing a 1 hit move you will die.

    Now I've had my fair share of groups where people have had really bad specs and craptastic gear but we've still managed to clear everything, although it takes a good bit of time. I could care less how long the run takes, so long as I'm not busy afterwards, as long as we aren't wiping then I'm good. Now if you wipe the group over and over again, namely Healers here as I can DPS a boss down so long as the healer is alive, then I'll get mad. OMG was I furious when the same 3 people died over and over again to the 1st boss in xAP 5x in a row to the exact same mechanic. How hard is it to move behind the Ice he summoned. He doesn't do anything for a good 10-15 seconds so no one has any reason not to be able to get to some LoS safe zone...

    Anyway, as I said earlier I don't care if it's a link function as I do like to share builds every once in a while. As it is now I go to tinyurl and make the zam link smaller so they can type it in so it would save me some time. However, I don't want to have an inspect function, with or without a hide option, because it will lead to all sorts of bad things happening. People should be playing this game for fun and enjoying it the way they want. They shouldn't be told they are playing the game wrong because the only way you can play it wrong is to stand in the stupid and cause countless wipes. If it kills you then it's a bad thing and learn to avoid it.
    Definition of Generally
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