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Thread: What does soft and hard cap mean?

  1. #1
    Ascendant Oblivion333's Avatar
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    Default What does soft and hard cap mean?

    Anyone explain or give a good example on what that means. I read today's patch notes and didn't understand the Soft and Hard Cap.

    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by Oblivion333; 07-20-2011 at 02:28 PM.
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  2. #2
    Sez
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    Soft cap - You can go past it, but at a diminished rate. So before, if 1 Wis = 1 SP after a certain point 1 Wis = 0.5 SP

    (Not a fact, just an example)


    Hard cap - Any points past a certain number give you zero bonus. So 1010 attack power only shows at 1000 because that's the hard cap


    (Not a fact, just an example)
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    Ascendant Blays's Avatar
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    Pretty much soft cap will show that you have 60% crit but only 45% will actually crit

    and hard cap will just stop showing if it cant go past 45%


    its lazy programing
    Quote Originally Posted by Torvax View Post
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  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Soft cap - value obtained from just gear, no abilities/buffs factored in. So you, in your gear, no talents spent in any trees, this value can go up to the soft cap number and still provide additional benefit.

    Hard cap - a value which will upon which exceeding provides no additional benefit.

    If the soft cap on spell power was 2000 (totally making it up), you could continue to amass gear which would provide you spell power, up to 2000, and still benefit from the stat. If the hard cap was 4000, and the combination of gear, buffs, potions, auras, banners, etc, etc, pushed you to 4125, the game would still do alll calculations based off the hard cap value of 4000.

    Essentially no one need concern themselves until they are ticked out in full Hammerknell attire.

  5. #5
    Telaran Abbigail's Avatar
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    Another example of a "hard cap" would be something like hit chance.

    For the sake of this example, let's say 100 points in hit might get you 5% chance to miss... 150 might get 2% chance to miss... eventually, the points in hit would theoretically get you 0% chance to miss. You'd hit every strike. That's a "hard" cap, meaning, any additional points in hit give you no benefit.

    Soft cap is what others say... the stat is designed to give diminishing returns usually in order to prevent the stat from becoming over-powered when you stack tons and tons of it.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blays View Post
    Pretty much soft cap will show that you have 60% crit but only 45% will actually crit

    and hard cap will just stop showing if it cant go past 45%


    its lazy programing
    More like a design problem then a programming one. The biggest problem with hard caps is that once you get enough gear you have to start dancing around it and a bad round of gear design can make things REALLY sub-optimal.

    It'd make more sense to give higher tier raid mobs ways to deal with the stats. Reduced crit against them and a chance to penetrate block for example... that doesn't render stats useless when you hit a cap, because the next tier will have enemies that can penetrate it and so the high numbers aren't a big deal anymore.

    Well, except for block's damage absorbtion. That thing really does need to be capped to keep it from getting to 100% :P

  7. #7
    Plane Touched Astasia's Avatar
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    Actually soft cap means you can mechanically go higher but it's not feasible or there's no current means to do so. Hard cap means the mechanics wont let you go higher.

    Diminishing returns are simply one of many ways to implement a soft cap. It's not actually tied to the definition.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple SabreWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blays View Post
    Pretty much soft cap will show that you have 60% crit but only 45% will actually crit

    and hard cap will just stop showing if it cant go past 45%


    its lazy programing
    Wrong.....

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple SabreWolf's Avatar
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    Here's a quote from a rogue site that explains the new Crit cap in 1.4.

    "From the Rift forums, some rogues have been doing some good investigations on the new crit cap and I want to summarize the situation here. According to Trion, the "soft" crit cap is 45% crit. This includes any stat increase buffs, but not any % increase buffs/talents.

    What this means is that anything that increases your stats (Fanfare of Power, Powersurge Vial, Vitality of Stone, Ambidextrous, etc.) pushes you toward the soft crit cap of 45%.

    Anything that increases your crit percentage by a fixed amount (Ruthlessness, Eagle Eye, Motif of Focus, etc) does not count toward the crit cap.

    This means that the soft crit cap is actually a crit rating cap. The crit rating to reach the cap is currently 1187 crit. This is easily reachable in Raid gear if you're using a crit sourcestone and if you are heading into HK, its a virtual certainty you'll be reaching it.

    What happens after the crit cap? Normally, its 26 crit rating for 1% crit. After the crit soft cap is reached, its 132 crit rating for 1% crit. That is a 5x increase in rating to get the same 1% crit. This means you want to avoid at all costs going over the crit soft cap."
    Last edited by SabreWolf; 07-20-2011 at 03:49 PM.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Morithin's Avatar
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    Soft cap means one you hit the soft cap (45% Spell Crit), every point of spell crit will yield less of the actual percentage. So in a 1:1 scenario, after you hit 45%, you no longer get 1:1, you get 1:2, then 1:3, then 1:4 and so on until you hit the hard cap.
    Hard cap means no matter how many points you put into it, you cannot get any further.

    The purpose of putting caps on is to prevent people from hitting 100% of anything. Blizzard did this in BC to prevent 100% dodge druids and rogues from tanking bosses. My guess is that Trion is doing it for the same reason, because when you can get 100% mitigation, bosses become trivial. It far from lazy programming, it is rather a means of keeping the challenge in raiding as gear becomes better and better.

    Good news is that as you get further in your gear, the less valuable talent points that boost crit become.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Blays's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morithin View Post
    Soft cap means one you hit the soft cap (45% Spell Crit), every point of spell crit will yield less of the actual percentage. So in a 1:1 scenario, after you hit 45%, you no longer get 1:1, you get 1:2, then 1:3, then 1:4 and so on until you hit the hard cap.
    Hard cap means no matter how many points you put into it, you cannot get any further.

    The purpose of putting caps on is to prevent people from hitting 100% of anything. Blizzard did this in BC to prevent 100% dodge druids and rogues from tanking bosses. My guess is that Trion is doing it for the same reason, because when you can get 100% mitigation, bosses become trivial. It far from lazy programming, it is rather a means of keeping the challenge in raiding as gear becomes better and better.

    Good news is that as you get further in your gear, the less valuable talent points that boost crit become.
    Well how about keeping the gear and buffs under control, instead of letting people get 70% freaking crit within 1st few months of the game. I now am way over softcap without a single buff and pretty much wasted few months farming crit gear and minors because they decided to change how the game works.

    Someone defiantly did not do something right here I should have known tho same thing happened to me with gems in AoC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torvax View Post
    Im an R8 Cleric.
    1 Rogue can annihilate 2 healing clerics together-Cross healing doesnt work against a rog. .

  12. #12
    Plane Touched Astasia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morithin View Post
    Good news is that as you get further in your gear, the less valuable talent points that boost crit become.
    Except they specifically stated talents aren't effected by the cap. So you get 45% crit through gear and buffs to hit the soft cap, but with say 3 different talents that boost crit by 5% you can get that to 60%.

    Also it's called soft cap for a reason, just because you are at the soft cap doesn't mean your excess crit is useless. But then again I forget the kind of people I'm talking about, where being 0.5% less effective is gimp and gets you laughed out of raids.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker Dourgen's Avatar
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    Soft cap: point at which another stat becomes better to stack.
    hard cap: point at which there is zero benefit to any additional amount of said stat.
    Thanks for the haircuts.

  14. #14
    Ascendant xanduin246's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blays View Post
    Pretty much soft cap will show that you have 60% crit but only 45% will actually crit

    and hard cap will just stop showing if it cant go past 45%


    its lazy programing
    this is just wrong, no one listen to this, its exactly what Sez said in the 2nd post

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Magic Wand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tridus View Post
    More like a design problem then a programming one. The biggest problem with hard caps is that once you get enough gear you have to start dancing around it and a bad round of gear design can make things REALLY sub-optimal.

    It'd make more sense to give higher tier raid mobs ways to deal with the stats. Reduced crit against them and a chance to penetrate block for example... that doesn't render stats useless when you hit a cap, because the next tier will have enemies that can penetrate it and so the high numbers aren't a big deal anymore.

    Well, except for block's damage absorbtion. That thing really does need to be capped to keep it from getting to 100% :P
    Another good reason is not to just faceroll older content, for example older raid zones.

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