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Thread: Should all classes do the same damage.

  1. #1
    Rift Master
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    Default Should all classes do the same damage.

    Warrior = parry, block, dodge, highest physical mitigation
    Cleric = parry, block, dodge, highest - medium physical mitigation
    Rogue = parry, no block, dodge, medium physical mitigation
    Mage = parry, no block, dodge, lowest physical mitigation

    Very simple question.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched Souldancer's Avatar
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    It's not a simple question, though. Warriors and Clerics have the best mitigation maybe, but only when they are spec'd to tank which will lower their damage output. Conversely, when they spec for DPS the mitigation goes way down. I see how you are trying to spin it but it flies straight in the face of logic the way you have it listed out there.

    So, to answer the question yes - all specs that have a viable pure DPS tree\build should do roughly the same amount of damage as the others. It doesn't make sense to say only this DPS build on this class is viable and we only have the others because we didn't know how else to fill out 8 souls.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Souldancer View Post
    It's not a simple question, though. Warriors and Clerics have the best mitigation maybe, but only when they are spec'd to tank which will lower their damage output. Conversely, when they spec for DPS the mitigation goes way down. I see how you are trying to spin it but it flies straight in the face of logic the way you have it listed out there.

    So, to answer the question yes - all specs that have a viable pure DPS tree\build should do roughly the same amount of damage as the others. It doesn't make sense to say only this DPS build on this class is viable and we only have the others because we didn't know how else to fill out 8 souls.
    "Warriors and Clerics have the best mitigation maybe, but only when they are spec'd to tank which will lower their damage output."

    Not True.
    Warriors and Clerics can wear plate. The other two callings can't.
    Plate has more armor.

    There is no spin. There is no "speccing" to tank in this case. The armor is flatly better.
    Its just a plain old simple question with no question mark which can mean something.
    We all know the answer is that they shouldn't.

    If they all do the same damage you would be insane to choose the callings that take more damage.

    The fact that all callings think that they should do the same damage in this game is telling of the community. Without logic you can't ever claim that you have attained a balance.

    Logic is 2 = 2 means that both sides are even.

    As long as you can say 4 = 2 is even because I play 4.... you are working on personal desire, not connected to logic any longer. If you have a few 4's that also think 4's should do as much as 2's and they all make a forum post. Is it now the truth? No, 4 is still better than 2 and should never be equal on all dmg when they have more defense.

    My brother tells me the world is full of idiots and that I'm lucky to be as smart as I am but really - do we require mensa IQ to decipher these things.
    At least an argument of range is something to debate but with all the ways to capture range how does that even factor with diminishing returns in play.
    Have you ever wondered why clerics take a beating and mages don't - it's not just their hots.
    Last edited by Fernt; 06-15-2011 at 05:50 PM.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Fireforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernt View Post
    My brother tells me the world is full of idiots and that I'm lucky to be as smart as I am but really - do we require mensa IQ to decipher these things.
    At least an argument of range is something to debate but with all the ways to capture range how does that even factor with diminishing returns in play.
    Have you ever wondered why clerics take a beating and mages don't - it's not just their hots.
    You are gifted for sure.

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    What seems like a simple question is not that simple. First you are only looking at physical damage when a large portion of damage is magical. Second, each calling has abilities which reduce or mitigate various forms of damage.

    So asking the question as you have framed it with the key assumption that warriors have more mitigation than any other calling, without looking at overall damage and all the other reduction and mitigation abilities available to all of the various calling to actually see if this assumption is in case fact, is pointless.
    Last edited by Natalaya; 06-15-2011 at 06:25 PM.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched
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    Warriors and Clerics can wear plate. The other two callings can't.


    alright
    Bouse - Dayblind - Defiant - Cleric

  7. #7
    Shield of Telara baph's Avatar
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    Not simple at all. Attack range and the ability to heal yourself trump all armor arguments.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tileus View Post
    A dictionary and an inflated sense of self-importance don't win you any points on the Internet, and I say that as someone who can be just as verbose and spew just as much flowery prose as you can. This is one of dozens if not hundreds of threads about this same issue, thanks for adding to the cesspool.
    Why, is wrong to be proud of who I am. I like the dictionary - so what. Must I dumb myself down everywhere I go, it already has to be done in speech.

    The dolts seem to be proud of themselves. They make thread after thread ranting about ubah crits. I'm adding to the cesspool and filth because we are all one. We are all the sludge of this game. Those that are quiet when they get killed and those that aren't. It's time to stop being quiet. If these developers listen to nothing but whines then that's what they can have. They can have whines from my side too. Being silent about it has only let the crooked finger point at my class patch after patch.

    Life is too hard, my shoelace is untied. It's all a warriors fault. Does it sound less pitiful when it's spewed at other callings or just a warrior. The enmity in this game I thought was for the other side, now they foster it by making pve changes for pvp and pitting entire callings against each other. If it's really a competition for who can scream the loudest I can change my font size if that is required.

    There are basic lapses in the logic of these complainers and why Trion caters to them they lose confidence with me. Better to join than be left behind no. Make my complaints then walk out like the others in a fit of rage. Some new game will always take my money.
    Last edited by Fernt; 06-15-2011 at 06:38 PM.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Gee, youre so smart. Th thank you for gracing these humble forums with your presence.

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    Red face

    I don't think its necessary for all classes do put up the same numbers as long as they are contributing equally to the group.

    Classes and specs all fit in different types of roles and their dps should fit accordingly. Just because you are wearing cloth, no should it be the lowest because of plate. Individual specs should rule over any mitigation or stereotypes of certain classes.

    You have to take group buffs, CC, role, healing, and any other support u can give to the group into account before deciding how much dps a class can do.

    For instance if you had a buff that increased everyone in Ur group damage by 5%, shouldn't u consider that going towards Ur dps instead of Ur groups because without it, they would being a little less? It's just a different way of looking at it.

    Also the individual fights have a big effect on the total dps. Some fights are easier if your ranged, others require more aoe.

    This being an mmo focused on group play, it just seems that overall contribution should outlay numbers.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernt View Post

    Not True.
    Warriors and Clerics can wear plate. The other two callings can't.
    Plate has more armor.
    Strangely enough, my cleric wears chain.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by illuminotter View Post
    Strangely enough, my cleric wears chain.
    I was too tired to point that out

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Havus's Avatar
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    Mages have the best armor in the game!

    The ability to be 30 feet AWAY from the guy swinging the axe.


    What more could you possibly want?


    Havus - 50 warrior - Gnarlwood
    Stark - 50 Rogue - Asphodel

  14. #14
    Ascendant
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    Default For PVP, yes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fernt View Post
    Warrior = parry, block, dodge, highest physical mitigation
    Cleric = parry, block, dodge, highest - medium physical mitigation
    Rogue = parry, no block, dodge, medium physical mitigation
    Mage = parry, no block, dodge, lowest physical mitigation

    Very simple question.
    That would be the fix for pvp - all players become *exactly* the same in pvp, that would be the balance that they want.
    And it would keep the pve side from getting screwed by the demands of the pvp group, there....everyone is happy!

  15. #15
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernt View Post
    "Warriors and Clerics have the best mitigation maybe, but only when they are spec'd to tank which will lower their damage output."

    Not True.
    Warriors and Clerics can wear plate. The other two callings can't.
    Plate has more armor.

    There is no spin. There is no "speccing" to tank in this case. The armor is flatly better.
    Its just a plain old simple question with no question mark which can mean something.
    We all know the answer is that they shouldn't.

    If they all do the same damage you would be insane to choose the callings that take more damage.


    The fact that all callings think that they should do the same damage in this game is telling of the community. Without logic you can't ever claim that you have attained a balance.

    Logic is 2 = 2 means that both sides are even.

    As long as you can say 4 = 2 is even because I play 4.... you are working on personal desire, not connected to logic any longer. If you have a few 4's that also think 4's should do as much as 2's and they all make a forum post. Is it now the truth? No, 4 is still better than 2 and should never be equal on all dmg when they have more defense.

    My brother tells me the world is full of idiots and that I'm lucky to be as smart as I am but really - do we require mensa IQ to decipher these things.
    At least an argument of range is something to debate but with all the ways to capture range how does that even factor with diminishing returns in play.
    Have you ever wondered why clerics take a beating and mages don't - it's not just their hots.
    That plate armor doesn't mean squat to a dps warrior when a level 50 raid boss turns around and b i t c h slaps you like a cheap hooker. Warcraft had this EXACT same problem back in classic and it didn't work out too well for the other classes. Mages did the best dps, moreso when you had an entire gaggle of fire mages because they all worked off each others incinerates. The only other dps class that competed were rogues, but mele was always at a disadvantage. So in the end the only reason to bring locks and hunters were because of 1 or 2 unique abilities they had that buffed the mages and rogues. To put it very very simply, having one dps class that outshines another will ALWAYS mean that class will become the perfered dps class for end game raiding. The only way to fix this is to make sure all the dps specs for each class do very close to the same damage. I'm not a ****, and i'm not going to say they have to be the EXACT same dps, but within 2-3 % is fine. As far as the armor they wear, that's just simply because of the other roles they fill. Warriors also tank, so they wear plate. What you guys want is character clones that all have the same stats and same abilities as every other character. Then you'll whine about not having any selection in the game.

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