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Thread: Should all classes do the same damage.

  1. #46
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernt View Post
    Warrior = parry, block, dodge, highest physical mitigation
    Cleric = parry, block, dodge, highest - medium physical mitigation
    Rogue = parry, no block, dodge, medium physical mitigation
    Mage = parry, no block, dodge, lowest physical mitigation
    This list is pointless, since armor doesn't mitigate magical damage. A fireball is going to hit just as hard with plate as it will with cloth armor.

    Most souls use magical damage, even some of the melee souls like nightblade or riftblade are using magical damage. Seems like only a handful of the souls rely on physical damage.

    AFAIK, magical attacks can't be parried, blocked, or dodged.
    Last edited by Stevoli; 06-17-2011 at 06:52 AM.

  2. #47
    Plane Touched
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    The game is treading dangerously enough trying to balance classes around both pve and pvp. In WoW people complained that some classes felt homogenous in pve while the opposite occurs in EQ2 where they feel only a few of the many classes available are viable in pvp. If you favour one facet of gameplay over another you'll always be annoyed by the inequities in newer MMOs.

  3. #48
    Rift Disciple Mourbid's Avatar
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    The same? I don't think so. Similar? Within 5-10%, yes. Support classes should be even less than that. Say 20-25% less?

    Melee dps should be a little higher than ranged dps due to having to avoid some mechanics more than ranged, but it shouldn't be by a significant amount.

    That's just my opinion.

  4. #49
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernt View Post
    Warriors and Clerics can wear plate. The other two callings can't.
    Plate has more armor.


    My brother tells me the world is full of idiots and that I'm lucky to be as smart as I am but really - do we require mensa IQ to decipher these things.
    At least an argument of range is something to debate but with all the ways to capture range how does that even factor with diminishing returns in play.
    Have you ever wondered why clerics take a beating and mages don't - it's not just their hots.
    You are wrong, and so is your brother.

    Clerics cannot wear plate, and you are not smart.

  5. #50
    Plane Walker Dourgen's Avatar
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    You forgot to include healing buttons on your list of survival abilities.
    Not that it matters b/c DPS shouldn't be getting hit with anything tuned high enough to kill non-tanks.
    So certainly yes, equal DPS across board is good for the community, player base and raids who don't have 15 players all rolling on one type of armor and weapons.
    That should be the Devs' goal IMO.
    Thanks for the haircuts.

  6. #51
    Champion
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    Warrior = no heals, no range, lowest amount of CC
    Cleric = great heals, long range, medium CC
    Rogue = medium heals, longest range, hight amount of CC
    Mage = great heals, long range, high amount of CC

    not biased at all, nonono

  7. #52
    Ascendant Trisian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernt View Post
    Warrior = parry, block, dodge, highest physical mitigation
    Cleric = parry, block, dodge, highest - medium physical mitigation
    Rogue = parry, no block, dodge, medium physical mitigation
    Mage = parry, no block, dodge, lowest physical mitigation

    Very simple question.
    You've summed the whole game up. You need to move on.

  8. #53
    Plane Walker Fritzlfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernt View Post
    HE also isn't a HE at all.
    Time to work on your mind reading skills.

    HE doesn't play a cleric - HE only stated at the start that they wore higher mitigation armor HE was wrong if it's chain instead of plate. It's all miles away from leather and cloth so what does it matter the name. The point is that it's higher mitigation. That was what the post stated. The reason the first person was trounced was because they made a foolish response. You don't "spec" for more armor - it's innate in the class gear - that was their mistake in logic. The second person that actually was jawjacked wasn't interested in anything but THAT game since they started it unless you see otherwise because I saw nothing constructive in their post or even on topic.

    This is my thread so I am responding to posters. Should I not and ignore them so they can claim I'm a troll. Nope I'm trying to address those that require it and the rest I ignore since that outburst. You don't want to talk about logic - you want to give excuses why the least armored and those with lesser defenses should do less dmg. I didn't even ask who should do the least just asked about them being even and most say - NO lesser beings should do lesser dmg.... wrap that around your grey matter.

    Some get it some don't - I tire of explaining myself.
    Let's think of a situation where there is a tank, a melee dps and a mage dps.

    If the melee dps pulls aggro, the time for anyone to react is literally none. The mob will turn around and start smashing him. You can't block with a two hander.

    If the mage dps pulls aggro, the tank and mage have 20-30 meters to prevent the mage from taking any damage.
    Encase, wither, raging storm, icy gale, and transmogrify, pyro has those two spells ETC ETC ETC.
    Every mage class has at least one stun, knockback or slow.

    So, if you don't "spec" for more armor, why would a tank want to use tanking souls?
    Mein of leadership gives multiple buffs including 100% armor increase.
    Rogues get 80% armor increase along with other buffs.


    You try to invalidate any and all abilities active or passive, and regard only armor.

    Mages do elemental damage. To which warriors get an average of 3 or 4% mitigation while DPSing and a lower chance to resist competely, which I don't think happens very often (or ever) due to focus.

    Warriors do physical damage, which mages get roughly 20% mitigation to in addition to their dodge and parry, which again probably never happens due to hit.

    Armor is hardly a factor while DPSing because in a raid DPSers hardly ever take physical damage.

    Warfront pvp: if you're running alone you're doing it wrong.

    Open world pvp: use what utilities you have to give you an advantage.

    So, yes. All classes should be capable of the same damage.
    Should all SOULS be able to do the same amount of damage, obviously not.

    Obviously, you need to do some research before trying to discuss anything because it appears you lack knowledge of any class at all.
    Do I look like a troll?

  9. #54
    Rift Chaser DeadlySmurf's Avatar
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    In pve, all defensive stats shouldnt matter, the tank is the only one who should be taking damage(unless its raid damage anyway) and mitigation rarely makes a difference there. That being said, there should be very little difference in damage between classes, provided they are dpsing. Of course there should be some differences in playstyle so were not all the same, but yea all dps specs should be capable of about the same numbers.

  10. #55
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlySmurf View Post
    In pve, all defensive stats shouldnt matter, the tank is the only one who should be taking damage(unless its raid damage anyway) and mitigation rarely makes a difference there. That being said, there should be very little difference in damage between classes, provided they are dpsing. Of course there should be some differences in playstyle so were not all the same, but yea all dps specs should be capable of about the same numbers.
    Yeah because there is no such thing as AE's, 180 cleaves, aggro resets, random spawned adds, etc. yeah the mobs all just punch the tank and don't do anything else.
    Last edited by Galibier; 06-17-2011 at 04:12 PM.

  11. #56
    Ascendant TheHangman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernt View Post
    My brother tells me the world is full of idiots and that I'm lucky to be as smart as I am but really Warriors and Clerics can wear plate.
    - do we require mensa IQ to decipher these things Warriors and Clerics can wear plate.

    At least an argument of range is something to debate but with all the ways to capture range how does that even factor with diminishing returns in play Warriors and Clerics can wear plate.

    Have you ever wondered why clerics take a beating and mages don't - it's not just their hots. Warriors and Clerics can wear plate.

    I have no argument to your claim that Warriors and Clerics can wear plate, which I've used above to highlight some of your better claims.

  12. #57
    Plane Walker Fritzlfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Yeah because there is no such thing as AE's, 180 cleaves, aggro resets, random spawned adds, etc. yeah the mobs all just punch the tank and don't do anything else.
    So.. warriors who must be in melee range need higher armor values.
    And raid wide AoE pretty much hurts everyone the same usually because it's magical and ignores armor levels. (obviously ignoring the 14-28 or so resist you get from lessers.)
    Do I look like a troll?

  13. #58
    General of Telara phyraxian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Yeah because there is no such thing as AE's, 180 cleaves, aggro resets, random spawned adds, etc. yeah the mobs all just punch the tank and don't do anything else.
    There's a difference between having the ability to take sustained damage, ie. tanks, and being able to survive some aoe/adds long enough to get healed or have a tank pick up adds. You don't bring dps based on how well they survive getting punched in the face by bosses.

  14. #59
    Prophet of Telara Vexille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernt View Post
    Warrior = parry, block, dodge, highest physical mitigation
    Cleric = parry, block, dodge, highest - medium physical mitigation
    Rogue = parry, no block, dodge, medium physical mitigation
    Mage = parry, no block, dodge, lowest physical mitigation

    Very simple question.
    This logic is at the heart of why PvP does not work in an MMO setting.

    What you are asking fro is a console game, which is where 99% of MMO PvPers should be.

    A tiny % of MMO PvPers accept the inherent "imbalance" that comes with an MMO and embrace it. The rest carp on endlessly about "bal;lnce" and most game companies are stupid enough to pay attention.

    They implement endless changes that never satisfy the PvP crowd and drive away the PvE players.

  15. #60
    Ascendant Fireforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHangman View Post
    I have no argument to your claim that Warriors and Clerics can wear plate, which I've used above to highlight some of your better claims.
    This is win. Your name is earned yet again.

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