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Thread: Rift Post-Mortem game and development thoughts.

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    Ascendant GoldenTiger's Avatar
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    Default Rift Post-Mortem game and development thoughts.

    It's unfortunate to see such potential go untapped in a game like this. I felt like it might be another one I'd spend several years with, rather than a little under two months with, to enjoy and complete things to where I felt there was truly not much of anything left to do, and that I'd seen it all before. Where did Rift go wrong? They did a lot right... here's how my experience went.

    I was able to plow through the Tier 1 & 2 instances very quickly (capped gear within first couple of weeks), and started Greenscale, but most of us along with myself lost interest since all there was left was to log in for a raid once a week. The PVP in warfronts is just instanced, meaningless skirmishes. The dungeons we've run a million times, to where they're not fun due to repetitive completions & no further reward for doing them.

    Dailies, I've already gotten close to all of the runecrafting plaque recipes anyway (I stopped really playing much around a week and a half, to two weeks ago). I have tons of platinum, all of the good 10-man rift rewards, and with the meaningless PVP systems just doing 10 minute instanced skirmishes that go POOF with no meaning or impact at all, that's not even worth doing either (not fun to me, it's too short & too small a landmass).

    Rift really needed to have at least had an announcement of a real RVR system incoming by now, yet what we have seen is them implementing a dungeon finder, making the dungeons even easier (they were already easy-ish but just enough difficulty to where you couldn't sleepwalk through them, so it was nice enough), and dumbing down other aspects of the game, while adding a new 10-man raid. None of this addresses the core issues with Rift, which are that there's no "fluff" to chase after at 50, there's no RVR or meaning to PVP at all (I never will see this guy again likely, so why care about him?), lack of good moneysinks (as I said, I have tons and tons of platinum, but nothing to spend it on), nothing to work towards longer-term (housing to build bigger and bigger? castles & keeps & towers & relics to capture in enemy lands? really hard to obtain gear that takes effort to earn? etc.)). Heck, I even obtained the 100-lucky-coin artifact 110% speed Shiny Tartagon within a couple of weeks.

    Heck, even alts are pretty meaningless, since most classes (only 4 exist) can do the majority of roles in the trinity (heal, damage, and tank). It's just a shame to see the game suffer from these issues, when so much was done right about it and with a great team of developers. For a very long time people had made sure it was known these issues needed to be addressed, but by the time we could, it was pretty much too late in the development cycle to change course much.
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    Double the pixels of a 1920x1200 monitor = yummy graphics! I do love my eye candy...
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  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Narcissa's Avatar
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    Maybe you play the game too quickly for the developers to keep up. :P
    Kidding aside, I understand your feelings about the endgame. Some dynamic content such as taking and defending fortresses or key areas of the map could help, I think, and would probably work into the game's lore just fine. However, Rift is incredibly polished as it is, and is by no means finished. You are one of the few (I think) to have made it so far in the game, while the rest of us are still lagging behind.

    I guess I'm saying that while you will have to wait for new content, by the time I get to where you are, new content will have already arrived. :P

    I guess this post wasn't helpful at all but it made me think about the problems devs must have in keeping up with their hardcore playerbase.

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    Rift Master Himora's Avatar
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    grats on clearing the game so fast, very rewarding not taking your time to look & experience the zones you must be proud, on a lighter note, i sense FPS is more your style... quick repeditive shoot em ups, send my love to valve.

    PS. your stuff. my mailbox.. uh hu ;)
    Hurry to Meet Death Before Your Place is Taken

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    That's a pretty good summary of what a lot of people that are leaving the game are feeling.

    Good bands make uninspired albums sometimes, car companies make Edesals..sometimes the best of development companies make games that just fail to capture the players imagination.

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    General of Telara Thulium's Avatar
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    Rift is hardly at the point of requiring any sort of post-mortem.

    Yes, the population is in a sharp decline, but that was to be expected once the initial bow wave of players who jumped ship from their previous game have returned to it.

    People under estimate the difficulty in leaving a game that they still have active social ties with.

    People are also unprepared for how limited a new MMORPG seems when compared to ones which have years worth of expansion content released and available for play.

    Content comes with time and patience.
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    Sword of Telara Dazee's Avatar
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    Everything you listed is a reason I love this game... I feel bad that you already blasted through all of it and made it stale... I for one, plan on getting at least another two or three months worth of enjoyment out of the current content. Judging from hot fixes and patches by then there will be more stuff to do, so I am not worried.


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  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara Sneezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
    It's unfortunate to see such potential go untapped in a game like this. I felt like it might be another one I'd spend several years with, rather than a little under two months with, to enjoy and complete things to where I felt there was truly not much of anything left to do, and that I'd seen it all before. Where did Rift go wrong? They did a lot right... here's how my experience went.

    I was able to plow through the Tier 1 & 2 instances very quickly (capped gear within first couple of weeks), and started Greenscale, but most of us along with myself lost interest since all there was left was to log in for a raid once a week. The PVP in warfronts is just instanced, meaningless skirmishes. The dungeons we've run a million times, to where they're not fun due to repetitive completions & no further reward for doing them.

    Dailies, I've already gotten close to all of the runecrafting plaque recipes anyway (I stopped really playing much around a week and a half, to two weeks ago). I have tons of platinum, all of the good 10-man rift rewards, and with the meaningless PVP systems just doing 10 minute instanced skirmishes that go POOF with no meaning or impact at all, that's not even worth doing either (not fun to me, it's too short & too small a landmass).

    Rift really needed to have at least had an announcement of a real RVR system incoming by now, yet what we have seen is them implementing a dungeon finder, making the dungeons even easier (they were already easy-ish but just enough difficulty to where you couldn't sleepwalk through them, so it was nice enough), and dumbing down other aspects of the game, while adding a new 10-man raid. None of this addresses the core issues with Rift, which are that there's no "fluff" to chase after at 50, there's no RVR or meaning to PVP at all (I never will see this guy again likely, so why care about him?), lack of good moneysinks (as I said, I have tons and tons of platinum, but nothing to spend it on), nothing to work towards longer-term (housing to build bigger and bigger? castles & keeps & towers & relics to capture in enemy lands? really hard to obtain gear that takes effort to earn? etc.)). Heck, I even obtained the 100-lucky-coin artifact 110% speed Shiny Tartagon within a couple of weeks.

    Heck, even alts are pretty meaningless, since most classes (only 4 exist) can do the majority of roles in the trinity (heal, damage, and tank). It's just a shame to see the game suffer from these issues, when so much was done right about it and with a great team of developers. For a very long time people had made sure it was known these issues needed to be addressed, but by the time we could, it was pretty much too late in the development cycle to change course much.
    Can I summarize?

    RvR will keep people happy much longer end game than instanced WF's or grinding Raids.

    /signed for RvR

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    Soulwalker Redcj35's Avatar
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    What I am having trouble understanding is how this differs from any MMO out there right now?

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    Ascendant GoldenTiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vydor View Post
    That's a pretty good summary of what a lot of people that are leaving the game are feeling.

    Good bands make uninspired albums sometimes, car companies make Edesals..sometimes the best of development companies make games that just fail to capture the players imagination.
    That's a very good way of putting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Himora View Post
    grats on clearing the game so fast, very rewarding not taking your time to look & experience the zones you must be proud, on a lighter note, i sense FPS is more your style... quick repeditive shoot em ups, send my love to valve.

    PS. your stuff. my mailbox.. uh hu ;)
    I looked at and experienced the zones plenty of times during the beta and other events, as well as post-launch ;). Just because someone isn't crawling through it doesn't mean they aren't going through it. I hardly rushed, either... I wasn't 50 until around 1.5 weeks post-launch, even.

    PS. my stuff. friend's mailbox. uh hu ;)
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    Double the pixels of a 1920x1200 monitor = yummy graphics! I do love my eye candy...
    GSB, RoS conqueror, DH, GP cleared, 10/11 HK + P3 Akylios pre-nerf, Mage of Wolfsbane

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    Ascendant GoldenTiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulium View Post
    Rift is hardly at the point of requiring any sort of post-mortem.

    Yes, the population is in a sharp decline, but that was to be expected once the initial bow wave of players who jumped ship from their previous game have returned to it.

    People under estimate the difficulty in leaving a game that they still have active social ties with.

    People are also unprepared for how limited a new MMORPG seems when compared to ones which have years worth of expansion content released and available for play.

    Content comes with time and patience.
    Content takes time, but the direction of the game is completely in favor of a model that most are tired of, and literally can't sustain players for long, aka dungeons/raids, at this time. I liked their attempt at a dynamic event with the whole River of Souls introduction, and despite how it actually went in reality it was a great idea. The thing is, stuff like that should be happening every day with players in RVR, and the Rift rewards are basically unneeded by a level 50 player except for a few early ones that are bypassed quickly. The whole Rift invasion idea is great, but it just isn't taken far enough. It's not that I think Rift is a bad game, or lacks content: I just think the content it has and is adding isn't going to help the game. As far as social ties, my guild's basically jumped ship for the same reasons I am, already.
    Rig: 256gb SSD, i7 2600K quad-core (w/ HT, 4400mhz), GTX 670 Gigabyte OC WindForce @ 1354core/6510mem, 2560x1600 (Dell 3007wfp-hc S-IPS LCD monitor 30"), 16GB DDR3.
    Double the pixels of a 1920x1200 monitor = yummy graphics! I do love my eye candy...
    GSB, RoS conqueror, DH, GP cleared, 10/11 HK + P3 Akylios pre-nerf, Mage of Wolfsbane

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Narcissa's Avatar
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    Off-topic here, but weren't you playing Aion not too long ago? I think I remember your username, but I'm not sure.

  12. #12
    General of Telara Thulium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
    Content takes time, but the direction of the game is completely in favor of a model that most are tired of, and literally can't sustain players for long, aka dungeons/raids, at this time. I liked their attempt at a dynamic event with the whole River of Souls introduction, and despite how it actually went in reality it was a great idea. The thing is, stuff like that should be happening every day with players in RVR, and the Rift rewards are basically unneeded by a level 50 player except for a few early ones that are bypassed quickly. The whole Rift invasion idea is great, but it just isn't taken far enough. It's not that I think Rift is a bad game, or lacks content: I just think the content it has and is adding isn't going to help the game. As far as social ties, my guild's basically jumped ship for the same reasons I am, already.
    The model that this game is based on is the model that gamers expect.

    People have been coming to these forums since alpha sometimes asking, sometimes demanding features that are ripped straight out of other games, and in the same breath stating that they don't want Rift to turn into those games.

    You can't have both. It either follows the familiar (dungeon-raid) model, or it doesn't.

    RvR is not the (forgive the pun) tiger blood that will vault the game to the champion seat. RvR isn't for everyone, and integrating it into the game at this point (without a major revamp of the whole game) will still seem lacking when compared to games based on RvR.

    Trion has barely started to scratch the surface of what they can do with their technology, and the lore that goes with it.

    Slivers are a prime example. Until about a month or two ago we had no idea that Trion had that in the works. Journeying to an alternate dimension where a particular elemental force "won" and "putting things right, that once went wrong" is a very cool (IMHO) use of the already existing time travel lore to explain why you are in an instanced "dungeon" world. I'm assuming some inspiration for this came from FFXI's Dynamis system.

    I hate to see someone who has been a long time active member of the community go, but best wishes and good luck to you and your guild in finding what you are looking for.
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  13. #13
    Ascendant Laughingstock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
    It's unfortunate to see such potential go untapped in a game like this. I felt like it might be another one I'd spend several years with, rather than a little under two months with, to enjoy and complete things to where I felt there was truly not much of anything left to do, and that I'd seen it all before. Where did Rift go wrong? They did a lot right... here's how my experience went.

    I was able to plow through the Tier 1 & 2 instances very quickly (capped gear within first couple of weeks), and started Greenscale, but most of us along with myself lost interest since all there was left was to log in for a raid once a week. The PVP in warfronts is just instanced, meaningless skirmishes. The dungeons we've run a million times, to where they're not fun due to repetitive completions & no further reward for doing them.

    Dailies, I've already gotten close to all of the runecrafting plaque recipes anyway (I stopped really playing much around a week and a half, to two weeks ago). I have tons of platinum, all of the good 10-man rift rewards, and with the meaningless PVP systems just doing 10 minute instanced skirmishes that go POOF with no meaning or impact at all, that's not even worth doing either (not fun to me, it's too short & too small a landmass).

    Rift really needed to have at least had an announcement of a real RVR system incoming by now, yet what we have seen is them implementing a dungeon finder, making the dungeons even easier (they were already easy-ish but just enough difficulty to where you couldn't sleepwalk through them, so it was nice enough), and dumbing down other aspects of the game, while adding a new 10-man raid. None of this addresses the core issues with Rift, which are that there's no "fluff" to chase after at 50, there's no RVR or meaning to PVP at all (I never will see this guy again likely, so why care about him?), lack of good moneysinks (as I said, I have tons and tons of platinum, but nothing to spend it on), nothing to work towards longer-term (housing to build bigger and bigger? castles & keeps & towers & relics to capture in enemy lands? really hard to obtain gear that takes effort to earn? etc.)). Heck, I even obtained the 100-lucky-coin artifact 110% speed Shiny Tartagon within a couple of weeks.

    Heck, even alts are pretty meaningless, since most classes (only 4 exist) can do the majority of roles in the trinity (heal, damage, and tank). It's just a shame to see the game suffer from these issues, when so much was done right about it and with a great team of developers. For a very long time people had made sure it was known these issues needed to be addressed, but by the time we could, it was pretty much too late in the development cycle to change course much.
    You got to endgame too soon.

    But that's not your fault, most of these MMOs nowadays are built so people can do that, then they linger around on the end bored waiting for them to put more stuff out.

    Older games used to have it so you weren't maxed until almost a year or more, so the companies had time to develop stuff for you (that WORKED properly) when you got there.

    This is the new state of MMOs with the casuals wanting to hit endgame just as fast as the hardcores, so they dumb the material down, give obscene amounts of EXP in every quest, and make the mobs easy to kill so everyone can be super.

    Here: let Syndrome from The Incredibles explain it better...

    Syndrome (to Mr. Incredible): "I'll give them the most spectacular heroics anyone's ever seen. And when I'm old and I've had my fun, I'll sell my inventions so that everyone can be superheroes. Everyone can be super. And when everyone's super, no one will be." [evil laughter]
    Last edited by Laughingstock; 05-04-2011 at 11:32 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himora View Post
    grats on clearing the game so fast, very rewarding not taking your time to look & experience the zones you must be proud, on a lighter note, i sense FPS is more your style... quick repeditive shoot em ups, send my love to valve.

    PS. your stuff. my mailbox.. uh hu ;)
    Typical fanboy reply.

    The whole rush thing does not aply to rift because this mmo is the easiest Ive ever played. T1/2 is a snooze if you have 5 people who know how to play, leveling is straightforward and boringly easy.

    the zones are linear/small and packed with mobs, with a cave here and there that is empty or holds a crappy artifact that is quite useless in the long run. Not to mention the design on them blows ***. Stillmoor looks like a zone from a 1998 mmo, not 2011. Just because someone isnt interested in gawking at sub-standard zone design for 5 hours a day doesnt mean they didnt explore whatever there is to explore.

    Rifts director said that they didnt spend a lot of time with the leveling process, because he boldly claimed that they had end-game, wich they dont.
    Last edited by Nerwelle; 05-04-2011 at 12:07 PM.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Narcissa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerwelle View Post
    Typical fanboy reply.

    The whole rush thing does not aply to rift because this mmo is the easiest Ive ever played. T1/2 is a snooze if you have 5 people who know how to play, leveling is straightforward and boringly easy.

    the zones are linear/small and packed with mobs, with a cave here and there that is empty or holds a crappy artifact that is quite useless in the long run. Not to mention the design on them blows ***. Stillmoor looks like a zone from a 1998 mmo, not 2011.

    Fail game is fail.
    Your post was so much better than his.
    /sarcasm

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