Rift Post-Mortem game and development thoughts.

[GoldenTiger]

Off-topic here, but weren't you playing Aion not too long ago? I think I remember your username, but I'm not sure.

Yes, I was posting on those forums awhile back, before and a small time after Aion's launch.

as someone who has seen you post for a long time, i am sad to see you go. you were a very constructive member of this community, and no matter what others may have to say on the subject, the community will lack a little more without you here. i've always appreciated your insight and your faith in this game ever since i began back in beta 5.

there is nothing in your post that is untrue in my opinion. granted, some may disagree, however, i take your post seriously because of the good you've done here. trion does have some great ideas, and i'm waiting for them to truly deliver. they are young as a company, and are cutting their teeth. hopefully this title will live up to it's billing one day. i understand your frustrations and have them as well. i'm trying hard to stick around to see where this all goes, however i understand your need to move on.

good luck, and hopefully we'll see you sometime in the future.

Thank you for the kind remarks . As you intuited, I'm not saying Rift is a bad game and everyone should bail now or lose their kittens to a horrible fire. I'm just saying that Rift isn't the game for me, and that I wish it had gone further with the dynamic elements (I think its core strengths are the accessibility, the solid stock UI, a decent crafting system, the Rifts, and the zone events). The problem I had was that I came in expecting a more player-driven game with some PVP/RVR to it initially, and found what is a solid, but standard, PVE-oriented MMORPG. That's not to say it isn't a good game, or that it's not a good choice for many players, of course .

While I agree with the additions you suggest, I don't feel they will resolve your issue. What makes you think you will not end game all of those things in a month?

You need to slow down and accept the fact that these games are finite with respects to each expansion. Trion already stated that a once a month content release schedule is what they envision. You will burn the content in a week and be bored again.

Maybe you need to play something like Second Life or Kavena? they have no end as they are based almost purely on player interaction.

Actually, Kavena is pretty cool, discovered a lot of new music in there.

See above, in short I agree with you as far as the game's orientation just not fitting my playstyle. I really do desire a more dynamic world with player-based content. Unfortunately Rift just isn't that game.

Oh, and a quick appraisal of the OPs contribution to a post back in January entitled "Could Rift end up like Aion" jarred a past memory of another Golden Tiger from my early days with Aion's community.

http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...ike-Aion/page5

I don't want to seem mean spirited or give a dog (cat) a bad name, but I can't help observe that you seem to have form - unless of course there's another Golden Tiger with the same avatar who spent an innordinate amount of time at Aion Source, condemning the game long after most players would simply have voted with their feet?

I won't be lingering around proclaiming how bad a game Rift is or anything, though I will likely hang around (and of course, reference it in future discussions as to what it did right and wrong) a bit since there are people I talk with on these boards. They're all MMORPG's, so yes, it is fitting to reference others when discussing items of the same type.

[Apoth]

Im with you GoldenTiger, you know i have been asking for RVR for a long time. my solution was roll on sunrest the PVP-RP server. its been an amazing difference im sorry to the "carebears hold hands and play nice together" crowd but this game should have always been a faction vs faction open PVP game. the lore is completely geared toward open PVP.


I gave up a t2 character to reroll and the game has gotten so much more fun, yes there is ganking but surprisingly not as much as i would have expected, maybe because its an RP server it attracted more mature gamers.

[ziboo]

A post mortem? ROFL!

When I stilll see people in the 1-9 asking questions (fresh players IMHO) and all the other zones full of bodies, I hardly think RIFT is ready for a toe-tag.

So, if you chose to make this into a quickie run through, it's your choice. Have fun on your next game. Although new console game of the week, seems more of the OP's choice.

The journey to end game is as fun as max level. Try it you might actually like it.

[Reciprocity]

OP, all you say is 100% correct. I only take exception to 1 particular fact, and it's a fact mind you.

YOU ALREADY KNEW ALL OF THIS BEFORE THE GAME STARTED. You played Alpha. On the old Alpha forums you claimed to have done it all. Why, oh why, did you think there was going to be more in 2 weeks after launch? Nobody can blame you for being burned out, hell if I would have rushed through it all that hard, I would be burnt too. Maybe a lesson for you on your next game; take your time. The content will come if you don't blow through stuff so fast that you didn't take the time to enjoy it. Stay away from Alpha and Beta testing. If you don't do those things, then the only person you have to blame about the game is yourself. MMO's are NOT a sprint to the finish. They are a long, leisurely walk that is meant to be enjoyed long term.

[Warhorse of Nyx]

It's unfortunate to see such potential go untapped in a game like this. I felt like it might be another one I'd spend several years with, rather than a little under two months with, to enjoy and complete things to where I felt there was truly not much of anything left to do, and that I'd seen it all before. Where did Rift go wrong? They did a lot right... here's how my experience went.

I was able to plow through the Tier 1 & 2 instances very quickly (capped gear within first couple of weeks), and started Greenscale, but most of us along with myself lost interest since all there was left was to log in for a raid once a week. The PVP in warfronts is just instanced, meaningless skirmishes. The dungeons we've run a million times, to where they're not fun due to repetitive completions & no further reward for doing them.

Dailies, I've already gotten close to all of the runecrafting plaque recipes anyway (I stopped really playing much around a week and a half, to two weeks ago). I have tons of platinum, all of the good 10-man rift rewards, and with the meaningless PVP systems just doing 10 minute instanced skirmishes that go POOF with no meaning or impact at all, that's not even worth doing either (not fun to me, it's too short & too small a landmass).

Rift really needed to have at least had an announcement of a real RVR system incoming by now, yet what we have seen is them implementing a dungeon finder, making the dungeons even easier (they were already easy-ish but just enough difficulty to where you couldn't sleepwalk through them, so it was nice enough), and dumbing down other aspects of the game, while adding a new 10-man raid. None of this addresses the core issues with Rift, which are that there's no "fluff" to chase after at 50, there's no RVR or meaning to PVP at all (I never will see this guy again likely, so why care about him?), lack of good moneysinks (as I said, I have tons and tons of platinum, but nothing to spend it on), nothing to work towards longer-term (housing to build bigger and bigger? castles & keeps & towers & relics to capture in enemy lands? really hard to obtain gear that takes effort to earn? etc.)). Heck, I even obtained the 100-lucky-coin artifact 110% speed Shiny Tartagon within a couple of weeks.

Heck, even alts are pretty meaningless, since most classes (only 4 exist) can do the majority of roles in the trinity (heal, damage, and tank). It's just a shame to see the game suffer from these issues, when so much was done right about it and with a great team of developers. For a very long time people had made sure it was known these issues needed to be addressed, but by the time we could, it was pretty much too late in the development cycle to change course much.

I'm sorry, but I really have no sympathy for players like you.. You have obviously ruined the game for yourself.. RvR isn't going to fix the dilemma you've created.. Go find something else to play and stop sniveling on the forums..

[GoldenTiger]

Im with you GoldenTiger, you know i have been asking for RVR for a long time. my solution was roll on sunrest the PVP-RP server. its been an amazing difference im sorry to the "carebears hold hands and play nice together" crowd but this game should have always been a faction vs faction open PVP game. the lore is completely geared toward open PVP.


I gave up a t2 character to reroll and the game has gotten so much more fun, yes there is ganking but surprisingly not as much as i would have expected, maybe because its an RP server it attracted more mature gamers.

Interesting, I did always wonder what might have happened with my game experience had I rolled on a PVP server, to be honest. Perhaps I will just to kill time since I have a six-month subscription, until I find a game that fits my wants . I'm glad to hear you found a good spot .

A post mortem? ROFL!

When I stilll see people in the 1-9 asking questions (fresh players IMHO) and all the other zones full of bodies, I hardly think RIFT is ready for a toe-tag.

So, if you chose to make this into a quickie run through, it's your choice. Have fun on your next game. Although new console game of the week, seems more of the OP's choice.

The journey to end game is as fun as max level. Try it you might actually like it.

I simply used "post-mortem" as that is what people tend to call an analysis of their experience with a product when they're done with it, lately, in programming circles . As I've said already, by no means do I think Rift is "dead" or "dying" ;) .

[Apoth]

Interesting, I did always wonder what might have happened with my game experience had I rolled on a PVP server, to be honest. Perhaps I will just to kill time since I have a six-month subscription, until I find a game that fits my wants . I'm glad to hear you found a good spot .

its always fun after an invasion event, both sides team up to kill the boss with some pricks randomly throwing AOEs (usually me ) and then after the boss of the invasion is dead, a massive fight ensues between both factions

so much fun.

[Gaylonn]

I disagree with the people that are accusing the OP of "rushing the game".

Trion designed the game such that getting to level cap was easy.......they designed everything on the way to 50 to be short lived......I mean really who did IT ,DSM or DD, etc more than once when they were at those levels? Not because they wanted to rush but because the game was built for that stuff to be out leveled quickly.

IMO Trion clearly wanted people to hit the level cap quickly regardless of playstyle. I just think they fell short of having enough varied content for everyone to be 50 and keep us interested.

[exLupo]

As someone who traditionally sets a goal in MMOs and, once completed, crowns himself winner and unsubscribes, I see where you're coming from. I don't push content to the degree that you do but when I have done everything I care to do, the result is the same. However, I also keep track of things and come back when more interesting things are added to the game. New goals and heights to achieve.

My question: Assuming new content is both regular and permanent (both plot and mechanical content, minor expansion and major), do you think that you will return to consume and leave again?

---

@"Lol, postmortem" crowd: You can "post-mortem" the launch phase of a product and, in cases like MMOs where it is in continual development, analysis of specific stages is very important. Rift, currently, is still in the first-release content bubble. Some people have consumed everything, like the OP, and then they are in a place where they can give their feelings on the product as a whole. As they now have globally experienced what there is to consume, they are in a unique position to give analysis of the current state of the product.

Attacks that ignore content and attempt to discredit by focusing on semantics or the speaker themselves only show poorly on the attacker, not the argument in question.

[Korvaene]

I think if the game content was entirely group-only, and had a much more time-consuming leveling curve, we wouldn't have so many complaining about the lack of content at end-game.

[GoldenTiger]

My question: Assuming new content is both regular and permanent (both plot and mechanical content, minor expansion and major), do you think that you will return to consume and leave again?

Good post! Yes, I can easily envision myself subscribing here and there to Rift to try new things they release, and perhaps even returning as a steady subscriber if some of these issues are taken care of. Rift is a solid game, and the things I raise are partially a matter of time, partially a matter of development direction. I don't see this being a game I'll be subscribing to for years without any lapses, though.

[Isz]

RvR is the last bastion of the "grass is greener" mentality of this very fickel and self entitled group of MMO players.

Say RvR is implemented:

Day 1: Massive QQ due to the same reasons as the WF QQ. Premades dominating, overpowered builds, blah blah blah

Day 2: Everyone on the forums saying "Look how DAoC did it, just do that Trion! WTF are you devs thinking? Just make it feel like DAoC" (Except Trion doesn't own a ****ing Delorian, so your out of luck)

Day 3: The threats

Day 4: More QQ

-----
Day 756: Still QQ about balance and how the RvR areas are useless due to premades facerolling.

[aeio]

OP,

You sound like an MMOG Superstar!

RVR pvp is not viable because it is built on the foundation of exploitation and inequity to determine who is the most succesful. The advent of controlled and instanced battlegrounds and warfronts are why many magnitude more people participate in MMOG PVP today than ever did when the only option was to open world and/or RVR PVP.

There is no way to fix these issues. Warfronts and Battlegrounds deal with many of these issues, especially the big one, which is population imbalance. Having every single fight or battle determined by the number of people playing or the best use of exploiting the game is not fun or challenging PVP. Not even close.

I prefer that the Rift Developers work on providing more complex and varied Warfronts to provide different scenarios and game designs that still provide a relatively balanced front for game play.

I don't want time wasted on a gameplay mechanic that has proven over and over again to be failed and impossible to make viable.

[Credo]

RvR is the last bastion of the "grass is greener" mentality of this very fickel and self entitled group of MMO players.

Say RvR is implemented:

Day 1: Massive QQ due to the same reasons as the WF QQ. Premades dominating, overpowered builds, blah blah blah

Day 2: Everyone on the forums saying "Look how DAoC did it, just do that Trion! WTF are you devs thinking? Just make it feel like DAoC" (Except Trion doesn't own a ****ing Delorian, so your out of luck)

Day 3: The threats

Day 4: More QQ

-----
Day 756: Still QQ about balance and how the RvR areas are useless due to premades facerolling.

Haha, I still remember all the crying in DAOC when certain guilds would have their 8 mans out. People would just log out for the night. Oh wait I forgot I was supposed to say nothing like that ever happened in DAOC...my bad.

[sosus]

Would someone please explain to how RVR would be any different than the warfronts we have today?

I've been playing eve online (one server for everyone) for the past 8 years, so I have no concept of RVR.

Thanks.