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Thread: PvP Souls

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    Prophet of Telara Sensational's Avatar
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    Default PvP Souls

    Could anyone be bothered to explain the logic behind these to me? Assuming they can not be used in addition to your normal level 50 points (If they can the whole thread is moot, sorry) why oh why would you include them? No one, absolutely no one, will roll without them in PvP. The stats that they provide are ridiculously powerful compared to your ordinary souls. If they draw from your original pool of points, they essentially ruin the variation of the much praised class system.

    So TLDR, PvP souls = 0-31 extra talent points or just another soul? If the later, why?

    A link to the answers is good enough.

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    Plane Walker mewKelliemew's Avatar
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    If you haven't already seen them here is a link
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeBO4j6gX2w

    But from what we have seen you can use normal souls in conjunction with them it does not lock out the other soul areas
    there are some standard soul builds that people may take over the pvp souls all together, Sentinel and Justicar would result in 2 in combat res skills (5 & 10 min cooldowns) this could really turn the tide in a fight.
    But yes, i image most people that intend to pvp will use pvp souls, but you do have options and also can mix in standard souls.
    Last edited by mewKelliemew; 12-31-2010 at 07:15 PM.
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    Prophet of Telara Sensational's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewKelliemew View Post
    If you haven't already seen them here is a link
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeBO4j6gX2w

    But from what we have seen you can use normal souls in conjunction with them it does not lock out the other soul areas
    But does it draw from the same talent point pool?

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    Plane Walker mewKelliemew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensational View Post
    But does it draw from the same talent point pool?
    yeah, from what we can see at the moment, it is ofc subject to change like all in beta.
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    Prophet of Telara Sensational's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewKelliemew View Post
    yeah, from what we can see at the moment, it is ofc subject to change like all in beta.
    God I hope so. I love the class system, it is one of my favorite features. PvP souls ruin it, for rogues at least. I'll admit I didn't bother looking at the other ones.

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    I'm assuming the logic of adding PvP souls is to do some combination of the following:

    Increase TTK
    Give players the skills they need versus CC
    Enrich the PvP experience without cluttering the PvE souls with useless skills

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    Ascendant Alente's Avatar
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    Yeah they draw from the pool although unless you have a high PvP ranking you can't get most of the skills.

    They're there to encourage PvP (favor) gathering and as a balancing mechanic. PvP becomes much easier to balance when people have one of their souls locked in place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensational View Post
    God I hope so. I love the class system, it is one of my favorite features. PvP souls ruin it, for rogues at least. I'll admit I didn't bother looking at the other ones.
    PvP souls use regular Soul Points..
    In PvP there are prestige ranks.. Prestige ranks obviously unlock armor/weapons to purchase.. But..
    They are also needed to unlock the higher branches of the PvP Soul trees.. Its not like a person can level to 50. Obtain a pvp soul & then proceed to instantly make a killer pvp specced character.. They will still have to gain Prestige ranks to purchase the higher level pvp soul abilities (and pvp prestige ranks are supposed to get harder and harder to obtain)

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    Prophet of Telara Sensational's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geflin View Post
    I'm assuming the logic of adding PvP souls is to do some combination of the following:

    Increase TTK
    Give players the skills they need versus CC
    Enrich the PvP experience without cluttering the PvE souls with useless skills
    Fair enough, what's to stop me from calling the standard set of souls the PvP souls, demanding that the PvErs have to lose all variation because I don't want clutter in my build, nor skills that won't help me in PvP?

    Increased TTK and CC counters need to be available in the standard souls, OR, there needs to be a full group of PvP souls. Otherwise the "unique" class system is nothing but a fraud.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alente View Post
    Yeah they draw from the pool although unless you have a high PvP ranking you can't get most of the skills.
    This does the opposite. There's little to no encouragement (For most people, I dare say) to participate in PvP when your skill is no longer a determining factor. Much how Resilience functions as a barrier in WoW, so too will this if it's prestige based.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alente View Post
    They're there to encourage PvP (favor) gathering and as a balancing mechanic. PvP becomes much easier to balance when people have one of their souls locked in place
    True. Of course it is easier to balance PvP when there's less variation, the same is true for PvE. Is it worth it when one of your strongest selling points is that your class system is varied? Not in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensational View Post
    Increased TTK and CC counters need to be available in the standard souls, OR, there needs to be a full group of PvP souls. Otherwise the "unique" class system is nothing but a fraud.
    CC counters are overrated. Increased and Decreased TTK are available (and better than the PvP trees) in the regular souls.

    Falling sky is not falling.

    32/32/2 (all normal souls) is going to be a very compelling build in PvP.
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    Prophet of Telara Sensational's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corwynn_Maelstrom View Post
    Increased and Decreased TTK are available (and better than the PvP trees) in the regular souls.
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corwynn_Maelstrom;35907932/32/2
    (all normal souls) is going to be a very compelling build in PvP.
    wat? All normal souls? Seriously? That's the oddest statement I've seen so far, for one you have 1 point extra in both of your main souls, as if that is somehow always the best setup with the current variation we have. And then 2 in your third soul, when a lot of souls unlock rather nice abilites at say, 4 points (Stealth, for example). Sorry, that's just absurd. You'd need to specify and even then, naw.
    Last edited by Sensational; 12-31-2010 at 08:14 PM.

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    Telaran Samiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewKelliemew View Post
    yeah, from what we can see at the moment, it is ofc subject to change like all in beta.
    But why on earth would that matter? You can get up to 4 possible soul builds you can save and flick between, so realistically you would have one or maybe 2 dedicated PVP builds at best that include that, leaving you another two or three whole soul builds to play with in PVE.

    What is the problem here?

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    Prophet of Telara Sensational's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samiel View Post
    But why on earth would that matter? You can get up to 4 possible soul builds you can save and flick between, so realistically you would have one or maybe 2 dedicated PVP builds at best that include that, leaving you another two or three whole soul builds to play with in PVE.

    What is the problem here?
    Some people might not care if there's variation in PvE (For a variety of reasons, I for one do not consider PvE challenging, interesting, fun or at all relevant. To me it is a means to an end) and we don't want the PvP dumbed down. More importantly, if the specifics in this thread are true, this is something very close to how Resilience functions in WoW which is a mechanic that any competitive player couldn't possibly support.

    Consider this, all classes have one specific PvE build that they must use, in addition to that they can essentially only use one soul. How would this affect raiding? Less interesting? Less fun? Less challenging because of a lack of complexity? To me all of those seem true. The same applies to PvP. So if the opposite was true would "Hey, you can still do fun and varied builds in PvP, but all your rogues are stuck with X+DOMINATOR (Theoretical name obviously) for raids" be a reasonable argument that the raiding crew would accept?
    Last edited by Sensational; 12-31-2010 at 10:04 PM.

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    Telaran Samiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensational View Post
    Some people might not care if there's variation in PvE (For a variety of reasons, I for one do not consider PvE challenging, interesting, fun or at all relevant. To me it is a means to an end) and we don't want the PvP dumbed down. More importantly, if the specifics in this thread are true, this is something very close to how Resilience functions in WoW which is a mechanic that any competitive player couldn't possibly support.

    Consider this, all classes have one specific PvE build that they must use, in addition to that they can essentially only use one soul. How would this affect raiding? Less interesting? Less fun? Less challenging because of a lack of complexity? To me all of those seem true. The same applies to PvP. So if the opposite was true would "Hey, you can still do fun and varied builds in PvP, but all your rogues are stuck with X+DOMINATOR (Theoretical name obviously) for raids" be a reasonable argument that the raiding crew would accept?
    Well assuming I wanted to be a tanking rogue then I would have to assume that yes, my default would be X+Riftblade. So this already exists in a couple of different ways in PVE. (X+Chloromancer if I want to be a mage healer.)

    The key here though is X. It is a variable, a variable that could have up to 8 different other options. You're also completely ignoring Y as well, since in reality as we level it would be X+Y+PVP Soul. Since Y also has 7 options that means, assuming probability, you have 56 soul combinations to go with your PVP Soul. Lets assume 3 quarters of those combinations are not really particularly feasible. (And I actually don't think it would be that bad but for the sake of argument we'll use that as a figure.) You are left with 14 viable soul PVP soul combinations. Per Calling. So 56 likely PVP soul combinations.

    56 and we haven't even started on variations on build within those. If every combination has even 3 different possible ways to spend point in the build combo, and lets face it there will be more than 3, each PVP'er will have, approximately, per calling, 42 different PVP viable builds to choose from.

    168 total. 42 per calling.

    I quite like PVP, I'm a little more PVE centric I admit, but I don't hate what PVP has to offer, but if you are seriously concerned that 42 builds is somehow not enough, I am at a loss as to what to suggest to you.

    (Also this assumes Trion never releases further PVP souls. The whole Rift system is built around flexibility, they can plug in new souls quite quickly if their spiel is accurate.)

    *ps Its New Years Day here in Oz and I am hung over, so I apologise if there is any error in my calculations and would appreciate any corrections if you spot them. Happy New Year.
    Last edited by Samiel; 12-31-2010 at 11:01 PM.

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    Champion MadMainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corwynn_Maelstrom View Post
    CC counters are overrated. Increased and Decreased TTK are available (and better than the PvP trees) in the regular souls.

    Falling sky is not falling.

    32/32/2 (all normal souls) is going to be a very compelling build in PvP.
    Yup, one of my goals during this beta was to test to see if I could duplicate what is in the PvP soul... From the warrior archtype I absolutely could while adding essential abilities the PvP soul does not have.

    I will use the PvP soul sparingly as it currently stands. Not only is the sky failing to fall, but from my perspective it was all an illusion to begin with. Like with everything it has to be tested thoroughly before the game goes live, but I chuckle now when someone says it will be mandatory.

    15% dmg resist and 15% reduced crit chance means I will have to hit you maybe 1 more cycle at most. When I have done 200 - 500 overkill the PvP soul will do jack to change that outcome.

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