Community and the Online Role Playing Game

[Anida]

*sigh* nods her head in agreement.

I'm being overwhelmed by waves of nostalgia this morning and it is not an altogether unpleasant feeling : )

[jargonchipmunk]

funny thing is, even WoW was a heck of a lot more "old school" when it started than its become now. (obviously) I remember our first encounter with the feared RAGNAROS haha. (and the weeks worth of encounters just to get to him) It was never as grindy or laborious (and certainly never as difficult all-around) as a few of the older games, but there were moments at WoW's inception that could raise a pulse. Certain things even took a certain amount of skill (before the instances became an AOEfest. Like double-sapping on pulls with my roommate on our rogues(before the days of auto-improved sap, etc) . Never failed to impress back then.

I remember when those rogues hit 60 we had about 40 people on top of the Org bank getting "drunk" just to celebrate.

Fun times.

Key thing here (for rift) is to have a gameplan and stick to it. Listen to your players who have insightful suggestions, and learn to shrug off players who are obviously only there to complain that THEIR character wasn't powerful enough in every situation last weekend. Balancing killed WoW for me, moreso than any other thing. Let me keep my tank that can tank, and healer that can heal, etc. I don't need a long range caster that doubles as the hate magnet with a side of healing...

now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Talan]

I remember when there was no LFG tools, and your involvement in the chat channels was how you got those groups. If you acted like a moron, people would pass you up. That's just how it was...and I preferred it that way. Sure, maybe the game took longer to achieve those levels, and the time consumption did suck. However, maybe if players weren't so concerned about grinding out content so fast, we could go back to these styles of games? We could play the game to play the game, and not play to just level.

You players who didn't experience what these games were like. I'm actually truly sorry you never got the experience. How a quest truly felt, when you had no idea where you were going, or what you would encounter traveling to the hinted direction. Finding a hidden camp with a named mob. The name is provoking, and you had to decide if it was worth it. You'd ask your guild or friends about it, even they didn't know that named mob existed. What would you do?

I can't explain to you, what it felt like to be in a group that required an off-tank or second healer. Even with them, you barely would win. The entire dungeon, or the entire camp was just a huge adrenaline rush. Each pull was incredibly dangerous, and it was a rush to know that you were deep in, or they would respawn soon. Corpse runs sucked! But simply because they sucked, is what made those very dangerous pulls, extra scary. These adrenaline rushes are few and far between anymore.

I remember when mobs actually yelled for help. No, I'm not talking about an extra 1 or 2 mobs came on that single pull. I'm talking about when 10 or 12 mobs came, and then the group would all just say "Oh S***!" Then watch your enchanter scramble with mezzes, and anyone with a root doing whatever they could. Only to emerge victorious, with a sliver of HP, all your DPS dead, and 2 healers completely out of mana. Only to be followed by cheering and hearing "awesome job guys! woot!" I honestly can't remember any games out recently, which have this as a common thing anymore. What ever happened to mobs yelling for help, not just chain pulls.

I remember being in raids of 60+ people, all intimidated by the encounter. Healing rotations which didn't miss, and sometimes they weren't even enough. Watch all the tanks scramble to grab main agro, right after your main tank just dropped. Even with damn near perfect healing rotations, and the raid boss just rampages and 1 shots all your wizards, rangers, and rogues. Clerics scrambling to get your DPS back up, and waste all that precious mana. There wasn't all these mana replenishment abilities back then. It wasn't forgiving in this concept. However, the raid would recover...nobody knows how we all pulled it off. Only to finish with 3/4 the raid dead, and clerics out of mana.

Folks, it may not have been easy. But it truly will never compare to those experiences, and they aren't because they were our first experiences. The experiences in themselves...were just that exciting. I truly wish you all could have seen these moments.

Whether or not Rift accomplishes this, I hope you all get to see what this felt like.

To the OP, I truly loved your post. Was making me feel a bit nostalgic. Not stealing your thunder, but I definitely just had to share my own feelings about it. It was truly remarkable.

Haseno/ Outsider. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. It is definately the shared experience of overcoming challanges, when you know that there are consequences for failure which make for truly memorable game-play.

VG bought that feeling back to me for a while, but with the lack of investment in the game, I was back to playing games that I found less enjoyable or challanging simply because they had new content being released.

[Setari]

I remember when there was no LFG tools, and your involvement in the chat channels was how you got those groups. If you acted like a moron, people would pass you up. That's just how it was...and I preferred it that way. Sure, maybe the game took longer to achieve those levels, and the time consumption did suck. However, maybe if players weren't so concerned about grinding out content so fast, we could go back to these styles of games? We could play the game to play the game, and not play to just level.

You players who didn't experience what these games were like. I'm actually truly sorry you never got the experience. How a quest truly felt, when you had no idea where you were going, or what you would encounter traveling to the hinted direction. Finding a hidden camp with a named mob. The name is provoking, and you had to decide if it was worth it. You'd ask your guild or friends about it, even they didn't know that named mob existed. What would you do?

I can't explain to you, what it felt like to be in a group that required an off-tank or second healer. Even with them, you barely would win. The entire dungeon, or the entire camp was just a huge adrenaline rush. Each pull was incredibly dangerous, and it was a rush to know that you were deep in, or they would respawn soon. Corpse runs sucked! But simply because they sucked, is what made those very dangerous pulls, extra scary. These adrenaline rushes are few and far between anymore.

I remember when mobs actually yelled for help. No, I'm not talking about an extra 1 or 2 mobs came on that single pull. I'm talking about when 10 or 12 mobs came, and then the group would all just say "Oh S***!" Then watch your enchanter scramble with mezzes, and anyone with a root doing whatever they could. Only to emerge victorious, with a sliver of HP, all your DPS dead, and 2 healers completely out of mana. Only to be followed by cheering and hearing "awesome job guys! woot!" I honestly can't remember any games out recently, which have this as a common thing anymore. What ever happened to mobs yelling for help, not just chain pulls.

I remember being in raids of 60+ people, all intimidated by the encounter. Healing rotations which didn't miss, and sometimes they weren't even enough. Watch all the tanks scramble to grab main agro, right after your main tank just dropped. Even with damn near perfect healing rotations, and the raid boss just rampages and 1 shots all your wizards, rangers, and rogues. Clerics scrambling to get your DPS back up, and waste all that precious mana. There wasn't all these mana replenishment abilities back then. It wasn't forgiving in this concept. However, the raid would recover...nobody knows how we all pulled it off. Only to finish with 3/4 the raid dead, and clerics out of mana.

Folks, it may not have been easy. But it truly will never compare to those experiences, and they aren't because they were our first experiences. The experiences in themselves...were just that exciting. I truly wish you all could have seen these moments.

Whether or not Rift accomplishes this, I hope you all get to see what this felt like.

To the OP, I truly loved your post. Was making me feel a bit nostalgic. Not stealing your thunder, but I definitely just had to share my own feelings about it. It was truly remarkable.

=[.

I wish I had gotten to experience what a true MMORPG was. What Haseno has said is EXACTLY what I want to be playing right now, not some WoW-clone. What you said, Haseno, really made me wish I had played original EQ, or anything of the sort. I am truly envious of the people who have had those experiences.

I am sad for the world's loss of these great MMORPGs. x10000

[qruf]

great thread! thanks for sharing, i had some great and similar experiences in early eq2...
when overland zones were populated with heroic mobs and grouping mattered.
when the first people to have their prismatic weapons were looked at with real admiration.
everything just feels more exciting an a more dangerous world.

[Spraga]

Once developers give up the idea of 12 million sub games we will see another great MMO. Theres just so much money put in to these games now the 800lb Gorilla is constantly breathing down there necks.

We need the Gorilla killer not the WoW killer!!

[MacDeath]

Haha xD We just say "gz" to save energy since it happens so frequently.

I've been playing f2p games for about a year looking for a new game to waste money on. But last night I got bored of auto-tracking, totally weak mobs and and 95% of the ppl "online" being actually AFK....

I went and played on my Cleric on ROSEonline (no longer p2p - but is "old school grinder"), camped a spot, got full party going (within minutes - because, *gasp* nobody is afk) and grinded and chated for 2.5hrs. Gaining 4 levels was just the bonus (god love the party level system with bonus exp xD). I miss playing a cleric that was a true cleric. Due to the unfortunate shift in gaming systems, where everyone is completely capable by themselves, thus only needing a cleric for dungeon runs for heals.... that they just arent as useful as they used to be. =(

I have a guild bot that automaticly gratz folks who ding. Talk about lazy!

[Hackiedoodle]

Once developers give up the idea of 12 million sub games we will see another great MMO. Theres just so much money put in to these games now the 800lb Gorilla is constantly breathing down there necks.

We need the Gorilla killer not the WoW killer!!

But who will kill the gorilla killer?!

[MacDeath]

Whilst I too wax nostolgic over my first MMO (UO in 1997) I no longer play it. I've given up on demanding that devs make games the way I want them to be. I shall play the game the way Trion makes it. If I'm having fun I'll pay for it. If it isn't fun I'll try another game (or just keep playing DAoC til the snow melts and golf is an option again). Speaking of snow, its time to take Rifty (our King Charles spaniel) out for a walk in the snow.

Later Mates,

Mac has left the building

[Outsider]

This is not a petition to alter the game play in Rift (or any other game) simply to satisfy nostalgia. I was merely attempting to explain "old school", the mentality behind it, and the desire to have similar adventures and experiences in the future with old and new players alike, regardless of the game that it occurs in.

The game is the hard candy-coated shell that surrounds the gooey, creamy center of community. Cracking it open is where the fun is. ;)

[Morguen]

Aye, thanks for the post outsider. I was involved with EQ from beta till around 2005.
One of my first experiences was being called to a group in lower guk by my friend the cleric. I was a monk
The first trial was running to the dungeon in the first place. Id never been there and it was a long trip from Freeport.
Finally made it to Innothule swamp and into upper guk.
Followed my friends TYPED directions down to the entrance of lower guk. I was level 29 at the time.
Now the fun began. My friend was sitting at a camp at the far end of the long hallway to the Ghoul LORD.
Enchanter friend came to fetch me using inviz to undead. This could break at anytime. Which it did 3 times. I died twice and got FD off once.
Finally we made it to the camp. I was too scared to move. Literally, all the mobs were red to me ( In EQ when you checked a mobs difficulty RED said "What would you like on your Tombstone")
It was a totally hectic camp each pull was hair raising and we were flying by the seat of our pants. But DANG that was fun. It hooked me.
Death was at every turn there. No mistakes, no forgiveness. It was AMAZING.

[Haseno]

Im very surprised this thread didn't explode. We're becoming non-existent

[Enkmar]

Agreed OP. Sadly, I think it's all for naught, WoW has just changed the make up of MMOs too much, but you've sure as hell got my vote.

Rift should offer some sort of middle ground. Keep the quests, the solo grind for those that enjoy it, but throw the old heads a bone - some world bosses and more difficult adventures that require a group. I really liked Lairs in Warhammer - that required a group to simply access, was a part of the world, and was difficult, unique, fun and rewarding. Rift should throw something like that in.

[JoshuaPonx]

If only this was stickied.

This is something I use to take my time to rant and shake my fist in the air about, but it gets tiring when it always flips into the same argument.

Thank you for the good read Outsider, it was refreshing.

[The-Destroyer]

So it sounds like you'll really hate SWTOR + GW2?