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Thread: Please submit application...LOL

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    Rift Disciple Alotta Mayhem's Avatar
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    Default Please submit application...LOL

    This rant comes from a few people that have asked me to join their guild, and after questing with them they asked me to join and instead of guiding me right there they asked me to submit and application for approval on their website...lol, not happening!

    Seriously folks if i have to submit an application to join your guild, then i want no part of it. Are we so ignorantly stuck in the corporate mentality that we have to bring it into a game? I own a national clothing distributor and I don't even ask people to submit an application for employment. I talk to people and see how well they work FIRST then offer them a job or I don't. So why would I submit an app. or join a website for a game?

    My point? basing guildies off applications is really stupid cause the person could look good on paper/app but be complete idiots when it comes to actual gaming or vice versa. Ill be glad to join a guild if I think you are good people and we have done a few quests to get to know each other, otherwise forget it. maybe that one person you denied cause their app was rejected could have made you the best guild ever...

    The Game and people you play with should come first, website should be secondary, not vice versa as it seems to have become lately.

    Rant over, Back to the game...Comments welcome, have fun everyone
    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
    - Sun Tzu, "The Art Of War"

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara Krazer's Avatar
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    I lol'd...
    Last edited by Krazer; 03-10-2011 at 01:26 AM.

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    Rift Chaser Iamtheblackwizard's Avatar
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    I guess these guilds have applications because they think it makes them elite or something.
    Best to stay away from these freaks of nature!
    Embrace the Darkness!

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alotta Mayhem View Post
    This rant comes from a few people that have asked me to join their guild, and after questing with them they asked me to join and instead of guiding me right there they asked me to submit and application for approval on their website...lol, not happening!

    Seriously folks if i have to submit an application to join your guild, then i want no part of it. Are we so ignorantly stuck in the corporate mentality that we have to bring it into a game? I own a national clothing distributor and I don't even ask people to submit an application for employment. I talk to people and see how well they work FIRST then offer them a job or I don't. So why would I submit an app. or join a website for a game?

    My point? basing guildies off applications is really stupid cause the person could look good on paper/app but be complete idiots when it comes to actual gaming or vice versa. Ill be glad to join a guild if I think you are good people and we have done a few quests to get to know each other, otherwise forget it. maybe that one person you denied cause their app was rejected could have made you the best guild ever...

    The Game and people you play with should come first, website should be secondary, not vice versa as it seems to have become lately.

    Rant over, Back to the game...Comments welcome, have fun everyone
    This should be pretty simple to understand. Many end game raiding guilds limit what classes, or how many of each class they take on their raids. They want top notch players with experience, because they get their enjoyment from doing raids and doing them quickly without all the wipes. If they invite every person because they are nice or helped them out or they just want the guild tag, people start getting left out because some of those players just don't make the cut (call em elitist but it's their game too).

    The application process is just a way to screen players. Now many non raiding, or not-so-serious guilds have started to copy the application process because they think it makes them look like a more legitimate guild.

    Just as you say "no thanks" to the app, a lot of quality players won't even bother with a guild unless the screen the guildies.

    Of course a guild that uses apps isn't going to be for everyone, but it really shouldn't be that hard to grasp why the top end guild do so....

  5. #5
    Ascendant Chomag's Avatar
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    Well there are some things that don't pop up in a conversation:

    - Age. While it might seem irelevant, note younger ppl have homework, curfews and parents. This causes them to have a rather undependable presence in raids, much so if the raid goes past a certain hour aka bedtime.

    - RL obligations. Some ppl have families or jobs that demand a lot of attention, this once again, qualifies them as casuals. Some raiding guilds don't allow casuals simply because they want to raid alot and counting on ppl only to drop the raid cause their boss just called, isn't helping.

    - Ability to speak english. We live in a global community these days, and English is not the 1st language of the majority of players. Ppl who speak it poorly and go through a lot of effort (both theirs and their peeers) to make their point are not helping at all, and often they are even annoying while trying to communicate.

    - And also, some ppl just refuse to pay the effort to write in a guild aplication. If they aren't willing to put up with that, how can they be expected to put up with wipes and other things not going their way ?!? I think this is the 1st step.
    Last edited by Chomag; 03-10-2011 at 01:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iamtheblackwizard View Post
    I guess these guilds have applications because they think it makes them elite or something.
    Best to stay away from these freaks of nature!
    Most guilds (with any structure) do require an application process of some sort. Hardly a freak of nature.


    Sorry man, but even in the most casual of guilds...a very quick application allows the leaders to have (in writing) reference material on all of its members (especially important if the guild is quite large, no more "Whos this guy again?"), and know a little about them as well.


    If you are complaining about super high end recruitment applications for raid guilds? Sorry? Thats their guild, and believe me - the fact that you are boycotting them and creating this thread is not upsetting them in the least - they do not want you, you do not want them. Simple, eh?




    TLDR; Make your own guild.
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    Actually, we have applications to ensure several things.

    1. They truly want to be part of our guild.
    2. They have a full and clear understanding of the goals we have as a cohesive unit.
    3. That we like their outlook and feel that we can get along with them on a long term basis based upon multiple levels of view on various things in game.
    4. Because guilds with a selective process, which acts as a fail safe, last longer than those that do not. These guilds, such as mine, often even expand across many games and have a dedicated following. For example there are branches of my guild in Rift, World of Warcraft, DC Universe and Guild Wars.

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    Plane Walker Alder's Avatar
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    I look at it as, you're not joining some random guild to putz around in. You're joining a community of tight knit friends that have been together for possibly many years. I want as much information as i can gather to make the best possible choice that may effect my guild long term.

    You can learn a lot more about a person with the way the go about their app than you can from questing with them for a few hours. I personally would rather talk to them on vent and get a better feel for their personality, which is as important as their "skill", but that's me.

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser Iamtheblackwizard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alder View Post
    I look at it as, you're not joining some random guild to putz around in. You're joining a community of tight knit friends that have been together for possibly many years. I want as much information as i can gather to make the best possible choice that may effect my guild long term.

    You can learn a lot more about a person with the way the go about their app than you can from questing with them for a few hours. I personally would rather talk to them on vent and get a better feel for their personality, which is as important as their "skill", but that's me.
    It sounds like you are hiring people for a job..
    I thought MMORPG's still are games, not work.
    Embrace the Darkness!

  10. #10
    Ascendant Kulta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chomag View Post
    Well there are some things that don't pop up in a conversation:


    - Ability to speak english. We live in a global community these days, and English is not the 1st language of the majority of players. Ppl who speak it poorly and go through a lot of effort (both theirs and their peeers) to make their point are not helping at all, and often they are even annoying while trying to communicate.

    should you not be able to tell if they speak English when you are questing or say talking to them in the game?



    Quote Originally Posted by Chomag View Post
    And also, some ppl just refuse to pay the effort to write in a guild aplication. If they aren't willing to put up with that, how can they be expected to put up with wipes and other things not going their way ?!?

    Umm this is a game? not a paying job, and reading your statement tells me you should fail an application since you did not put in enough effort to use a spell check or at least re read your own words



    PS Love the IMBA Guilds who
    For example there are branches of my guild in Rift, World of Warcraft, DC Universe and Guild Wars.
    Sounds alot more like A joke than a real guild, guilds in a game are about that game not about trying to see how many ways someone can pat pat themselves

    PSS you sound like you want us to be impressed? FAIL success
    is not based on how many games you can claim to have guild links to but how well you do with the guild in the game we are presently (whichever site) playing. We happen to be playing RIFT


    Maybe we should call you the Donald?
    Last edited by Kulta; 03-10-2011 at 01:51 AM.
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  11. #11
    Shield of Telara Morcova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alotta Mayhem View Post
    This rant comes from a few people that have asked me to join their guild, and after questing with them they asked me to join and instead of guiding me right there they asked me to submit and application for approval on their website...lol, not happening!
    Some people wish to know what kind of people they have in their guild. They may not want children, or people who will be unable to make their raid times.

    Imagine that.

    I own a national clothing distributor and I don't even ask people to submit an application for employment.
    Wow you are the worst boss ever, pretty much every employer I've had has asked for applications so that atleast they can do background checks.

    My point? basing guildies off applications is really stupid cause the person could look good on paper/app but be complete idiots when it comes to actual gaming or vice versa.
    That's why you play with them first then let them app.

    maybe that one person you denied cause their app was rejected could have made you the best guild ever...
    If someone is too lazy to fill out a simple app then I somehow doubt they would have made any contribution.

    You did the right thing OP you saved those folks from wasting their time.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Alotta Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airrows View Post
    This should be pretty simple to understand. Many end game raiding guilds limit what classes, or how many of each class they take on their raids. They want top notch players with experience, because they get their enjoyment from doing raids and doing them quickly without all the wipes. If they invite every person because they are nice or helped them out or they just want the guild tag, people start getting left out because some of those players just don't make the cut (call em elitist but it's their game too).

    The application process is just a way to screen players. Now many non raiding, or not-so-serious guilds have started to copy the application process because they think it makes them look like a more legitimate guild.

    Just as you say "no thanks" to the app, a lot of quality players won't even bother with a guild unless the screen the guildies.

    Of course a guild that uses apps isn't going to be for everyone, but it really shouldn't be that hard to grasp why the top end guild do so....
    The point was that they take people based on who can fill out the apps the best, and have never actually played with or got to know the person behind the app, and don't take those that they know or have played with without filling a stupid app out ..so they are doing it very backwards and I've run into several of these guilds like this. Seems like a big trend of Guild stupidity that's going on around here...
    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
    - Sun Tzu, "The Art Of War"

  13. #13
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    They are games and not work. However, with every guild invite comes the risk of inviting someone who is not the kind of person you and your already established friends in a guild can get along with. As well as everything else that has been mentioned. Filling out the application is as much so that you don't waste your time as it is for us. If you don't like it then find some guild that accepts anyone and everyone that asks to join. No one is stopping you or saying it's not a valid choice.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Jynku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iamtheblackwizard View Post
    It sounds like you are hiring people for a job..
    I thought MMORPG's still are games, not work.
    When people want to learn how to play an instrument they pay for lessons and practice daily. They do this a lot until it sounds good. No one just blows into a lute and says Im having fun. The point is, people work hard to be good at their hobbies. Hobbies are pretty much unpaid work. Why is gaming any different then those other hobbies?

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    It's also been shown in social psychology studies that initiation rites improve group cohesion. A group is perceived to be more valuable if attaining membership isn't too easy. I quote, for instance:

    "Also, as implied by cognitive dissonance theory, people who sacrifice for a group are more likely to adopt a positive attitude toward the group. Once they have engaged in behavior that implies that group membership is worth paying a high price, they are likely to convince themselves that group membership is very valuable. To feel otherwise would make it hard to explain why they went through the trouble and discomfort involved in joining the group." (source, see also the bottom paragraph here)

    or

    "Difficult entry criteria or procedures to a group tend to present it in more exclusive light. The more elite the group is perceived to be, the more prestigious it is to be a member in that group and consequently, the more motivated members are to belong and stay in it. This is why alumni of prestigious universities tend to keep in touch for many years after they graduate."
    (source)

    Ok, on a less serious note, it is amusing, I agree, when a casual guild thinks it's real elite by requiring applications. Anyway, let people run their guilds any way they like, and pick one that suits you. You may have a job and come here to relax but I assure you, that raiding stuff is serious business for some people and a full time job or more (to each their own). Steer clear of the labour camps.

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