NO DPS or Threat Meters

[Corwynn_Maelstrom]

Well my main complaint was that allowing add-ons leads to more add-ons which leads to ******gery/easymode/required by everyone. Then someone said I should get better friends because I said I thought dps meters brought out the ******s.

Stuff like that...LOL.

/derail

We can be friends. I play with drunken Danes who pull three groups at once and than shout "OOOOOPPPSS" over Teamspeak.

*sigh*

I really do need new mates.

[JesDer]

That threat meter wasn't even in the damned game for the longest time, why do EQ2 players now seem to want/need it? Has WoW seriously polluted EVERYTHING?

I said I would LIKE it.

If I die because a tank cant hold aggro .. it is likely that tank needs to learn to do their job or get better gear .. whatever... However If I know the tank is not up to the task, I like to have feedback from the game about just how much I need to hold back instead of getting myself killed over and over till I find the right balance. It is just something that is nice to have while playing with PUGs. It makes it bearable to play with those mediocre people. :P

[ITISI]

["]We need a moderator to lock this thread.
Post a sticky with them stating addons will not be supported.
And a reasoning as to why.
Then lock that sticky]

Thank heavens I found a way to get rid of the unpleasant glare that orangeness of orange/seliri/bosconi/representative of the house speaker-elect john boener/haseno produces with his awful, glaring bright orange text.

Anyway, bossy macboss, you do not speak for us. So ditch the we part of your diatribe.
Also, did you note that you are actually telling TRION employees what to do?

Methinks thy hubris level overfloweth.

[Dinadass]

C'thun was literally impossible til they patched him, and then my guild along with 234234 other guilds instantly had him on farm.

That makes him ezmode. Because the moment he was in the realm of possibility to be killed, he was. I understand why you tried to use him as an example though, you are trying to take his encounter out of context.

Naxx 40 was a joke, our guild along with some of the top euro guilds took no longer than a few days to overcome 4H sapphiron and kel. (Per boss)

Only reason it was glorified is because of the amount of grinding and farming you had to do for your raid, and because it was slightly more challenging than any of the content that came before it in vanilla.

But i'm not really going to play your game, this thread is about meters and parsers, not about you trying to validate your existence as a raider.

If you want to go down memory lane go ahead.

You are still eventually going to need to come to the realization that parsers and meters make a game easier. Until you do that you can't begin to discuss that issue objectively.

So how did a dps meter make cthun easier? Or 4H? Or any Naxx fight other than Patchwerk really. Since you were "at the top" then I'd figure the people in your guild all did their own parsing and theorycrafting, right? But the DPS meter still made the fights easier? Explain please?

[Corwynn_Maelstrom]

Maybe that's what your argument is.

My argument is about people being dumb and not realizing that the only thing that makes a game ezmode is the developer deciding to make it that way. Everyone else seems to think that including a DPS meter suddenly turns a fight from ball-crushingly difficult to a walk in the park.

My argument is better because it involves ball crushing.

LOL

Yeah. I am not disagreeing with you entirely. I do blame developers for a fair share.

This is why I wish people would stick to my arguments. They're just better than "DPS meters make things easy" . . . come on, everyone knows it's threat meters that do that.

[Haseno]

No, because I raided until Shadows! It wasn't in for the first FOUR expansions! And now all of the sudden in the last two it's become a safety blanket?

**** you Blizzard. Hard.

It's become the entire, "Rule #1: Don't talk about Fight Club" mentality. In regards to these things. If we talk about it, we're a target. If we don't agree to Fight Club, we're a target. It's similar to a gang mentality.

"Your way is improper, and our majority overrules you." "I feel it does this, so it should be included. Pay no attention to the nay sayers."

[-Naosyth-]

I'm enjoying how every time I ask you what something means, or what the relevance of your comment is, you reply with yet another completely vague answer that needs further explaining.

OK THEN - HOW DOES METERS MISLEAD PLAYERS INTO THINKING THEY ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING? How does a meter telling me what rotation gives the maximum DPS mislead me?

LOL. Couldnt agree more

[Corwynn_Maelstrom]

I said I would LIKE it.

If I die because a tank cant hold aggro .. it is likely that tank needs to learn to do their job or get better gear .. whatever... However If I know the tank is not up to the task, I like to have feedback from the game about just how much I need to hold back instead of getting myself killed over and over till I find the right balance. It is just something that is nice to have while playing with PUGs. It makes it bearable to play with those mediocre people. :P

See, used to be we took our lumps, and we selected our tanks carefully.

Now we just compensate for them because the meter tells us how . . . :P

[Haseno]

I'm enjoying how every time I ask you what something means, or what the relevance of your comment is, you reply with yet another completely vague answer that needs further explaining.

OK THEN - HOW DOES METERS MISLEAD PLAYERS INTO THINKING THEY ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING? How does a meter telling me what rotation gives the maximum DPS mislead me?

Considering I answered the questions already in my previous posts which you already read. I am not going to keep repeating myself.

[TheGreatGoogly]

It actually has Corwynn, and those who speak of it. Get attacked, such as myself.

The EQ2 DPS meter was obnoxious and the DPS classes largely ignored the actual purpose ot it which was to stay down on the aggro meter. Many of the DPS guys in our raid would continually try to stay as close to 100/99 as they could without pulling aggro.

Of course this never worked because they would pull aggro all the time. Afterall being close to 99% threat means you are doing Max DPS while not taking aggro!!! Therefore 99% was what these fools would shoot for.

[ArmaGetItOn]

Considering I answered the questions already in my previous posts which you already read. I am not going to keep repeating myself.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

edit for clarification: As in I thought you eventually won't have an answer.

[dinhosaur]

So how did a dps meter make cthun easier? Or 4H? Or any Naxx fight other than Patchwerk really. Since you were "at the top" then I'd figure the people in your guild all did their own parsing and theorycrafting, right? But the DPS meter still made the fights easier? Explain please?

This is you misunderstanding again.

While meters and parsers made our jobs easier, we were already top players, we made the most of the data and didn't take it out of context.

Where the harm is really done are for mediocre guilds where people don't understand the impact of meters and parsers (something you seem to be guilty of) and misinterpret the data.

However, regardless of whether people misinterpret the data or not, it still gives them extra data to work with.

The fact that I can go see how much damage each of my abilities contributes to my rotation, or how much healing each does, or how much threat each does... makes it a mindless endeavor to figure out the optimal rotation.

However, if meters and parsers didn't exist, players would be forced to actually think about the game.

As i've said before meters and parsers won't matter to me much either way, i'll still be at the top.

However, the majority of people that use them are not top players, and because they are not top players the meters have different significance to them. As a crutch or as a bragging tool.

Another point i'd like to make, is that top players understand the impact of meters and parsers, and they understand the game, so ultimately to them with or without meters and parsers they will excel.

It's bad players who can't live without them, as they are a significant crutch for optimizing their play.

[Haseno]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

You weren't thinking. I'm sorry that you should feel the need for me to keep rambling on when i've already stated it.

[Lucklez]

Obviously you didn't do hardmode lichking without 40% buff. I was among one of the most hardcore raiders that eq ever produced and I know for a fact that the level of difficulty in eq had nothing to do with the fights. WoW was the first to add multiple elements to a boss fight, instead of gear check and tank and spank. EQ invented raiding, but it really isn't the hardest raiding of all time. The guys that are pushing progression before the content gets nerfed down with these buffs that allow medicore guilds to push content, they are much better raiders than some guy who can 40 man tank and spank a eq mob that gear checks.

I dont follow your point here, it was one way to do bosses before, no easy no hard, a simple boss.
The boss fight in EQ needed alot more thinking than wow, thats no opinon, its a fact.
EQ gave raiding, WoW gave easy mode with gfx.
WoW made gamers to belive that gaming = easy mode. If we cant kill it, we wont get the loot, and we stop playing. We stopping = no paycheck.

You should know that in EQ, there was no raidtools in the beginning. Using ooc and auc, shouts and guild, aswell tells and group. Even say.


Example :Sleeper? kael, tov, ssra? long list. What about RoF, and aswell the roaly pain in upgrading your ring outside thurgadin? ;D scripts where in place, no gear check, quest check perhaps ;)
You know all these things, so thats why I dont follow your reply m8.
It all boils down to how much the makers wanna tell us gamers of the content.
What happened to going out and testing stuff on your own? Wheres the adventure of reading a website?
Wheres the pride in doing it like someone has told you to do it, when your paying your own cash and wanna play the game your way? Why limit the game to one playstyle for the guilds? Either your doing as provided, or your falling behind. Leaves no room for a guild to build up their pride and manners. Doing as told, or ****?
why should there be made a way to play the game with all the help this provides, and by that locking out those that want more content in games?

If you know everything upfront, then it should be a walk in the park, the variable in the game stops.
Gaming aint hard, perhaps Im one of those few that belives, content in games are needed.money.

[Corwynn_Maelstrom]

However, if meters and parsers didn't exist, players would be forced to actually think about the game.

But again you're arguing against the inevitable almost. Unless they purposely disable the logging (Vanguard), parsing will be in.