NO DPS or Threat Meters

[BucMan]

It's amazing how many don't understand that for raid guilds, DPS Meters are nice. But when they get used in PUG settings, be they group or raid, the ******baggery comes out. If someone doesn't like meters, but the guild they are trying to join requires using meters and makes observations on the player regarding meters, then find another guild. When joining a guild, it's their way or the highway.

As for the don't like em, don't use em crowd:

If not using them could keep PUGs from turning a player into a number, then it would probably get more play. Just because you choose to not have the add-on installed doesn't mean you won't be subjected to as much scrutiny as if you did. From my earlier example: 5% less DPS from one player in a 10 man raid(meaning 5 DPSers) will make a 5 minute fight last just over 3 seconds longer. 10% less DPS from one player will make it last less than 7 seconds longer. Really, harping over miniscule differences doesn't help and can easily hurt the community.

[silentwraith]

What? First off, if you lost aggro, it makes more sense to Taunt and then to kick/bash. Kicking and then getting a successful taunt means that aggro the kick generated was completely wasted.

If you had aggro, you didn't taunt or kick or bash, you just sat there getting ready to turn auto attack off when the mob enraged.

Also, you claimed that WoW got a lot of their scripts from EQ. The majority of the fights in MC/BWL had mechanics and gimmicks that no EQ fight had up to that point, and indeed had a lot of stuff that simply wasn't possible in the EQ engine. Please explain how WoW stole them from EQ then?

QFT because that guy doesn't know what hes talking about.

[silentwraith]

It's amazing how many don't understand that for raid guilds, DPS Meters are nice. But when they get used in PUG settings, be they group or raid, the ******baggery comes out. If someone doesn't like meters, but the guild they are trying to join requires using meters and makes observations on the player regarding meters, then find another guild. When joining a guild, it's their way or the highway.

As for the don't like em, don't use em crowd:

If not using them could keep PUGs from turning a player into a number, then it would probably get more play. Just because you choose to not have the add-on installed doesn't mean you won't be subjected to as much scrutiny as if you did. From my earlier example: 5% less DPS from one player in a 10 man raid(meaning 5 DPSers) will make a 5 minute fight last just over 3 seconds longer. 10% less DPS from one player will make it last less than 7 seconds longer. Really, harping over miniscule differences doesn't help and can easily hurt the community.

The solution is get some friends like you... who you can guild with and this fixes your pug problem. Most of us want meters because we almost solely run in guild and want to improve.

[Haseno]

I'm laughing at all the selfishness.

[silentwraith]

I'm laughing at all the selfishness.

I know... the same two guys keep going on and on about how they either want to not be judged or want to control who sees the meters... such selfishness.

[Dinadass]

It's amazing how many don't understand that for raid guilds, DPS Meters are nice. But when they get used in PUG settings, be they group or raid, the ******baggery comes out. If someone doesn't like meters, but the guild they are trying to join requires using meters and makes observations on the player regarding meters, then find another guild. When joining a guild, it's their way or the highway.

As for the don't like em, don't use em crowd:

If not using them could keep PUGs from turning a player into a number, then it would probably get more play. Just because you choose to not have the add-on installed doesn't mean you won't be subjected to as much scrutiny as if you did. From my earlier example: 5% less DPS from one player in a 10 man raid(meaning 5 DPSers) will make a 5 minute fight last just over 3 seconds longer. 10% less DPS from one player will make it last less than 7 seconds longer. Really, harping over miniscule differences doesn't help and can easily hurt the community.

PUGs without meters are just as full of ******bags, and they will still jump to conclusions and point fingers at people when they wipe. Meters are a copout, they aren't the source of the problem.

[Haseno]

I know... the same two guys keep going on and on about how they either want to not be judged or want to control who sees the meters... such selfishness.

Welcome back to the thread, do you want me to post past reminders as to how wrong you are?

We already proved way back you're biased and selfish. Do we wanna' start that back up?

[Lucklez]

we want we want, meters does the job for you. no brain involved.
Ofc its eachs choice.
But it should be equal, so just remove it for ingame use. that way its equal to all.

[Dexercist]

Seriously who gives a **** as long as you accomplish your raid goals as a guild. Parsers are about as friggin anal and ridciulous as they come. It's a toy used to find out just how big your epeen is, nothing more.

Really?

[silentwraith]

Welcome back to the thread, do you want me to post past reminders as to how wrong you are?

We already proved way back you're biased and selfish. Do we wanna' start that back up?

Biased sure.. claiming your not is hilarious with how much you post with no fact but all opinion.. Do you want to dredge up that argument again?

Selfish? partially however I prefer the use of meters to improve those in my raid faster than parsing .. I guess that is partially selfish but I like seeing those running with me improve and have fast well run raids.

[Dinadass]

Welcome back to the thread, do you want me to post past reminders as to how wrong you are?

We already proved way back you're biased and selfish. Do we wanna' start that back up?

Funny, I could have made this exact post while quoting you...

[Haseno]

PUGs without meters are just as full of ******bags, and they will still jump to conclusions and point fingers at people when they wipe. Meters are a copout, they aren't the source of the problem.

PUGs without meters are just as full of ******bags, correct.

But you don't give ******bags access to tools which bring even more harm, and "******ry."

Don't know why ANYONE in favor of meters is still arguing at this point. We've already had multiple people come in with their negative experiences. This alone confirms the many things Corwynn, myself, and others have been saying.

If you wish to keep ignoring them, you're being selfish and just arguing in favor of bias.

[Haseno]

Funny, I could have made this exact post while quoting you...

Funny, I offer compromise. Where have you meter supporters compromised at all in this thread?

[Dinadass]

PUGs without meters are just as full of ******bags, correct.

But you don't give ******bags access to tools which bring even more harm, and "******ry."

Don't know why ANYONE in favor of meters is still arguing at this point. We've already had multiple people come in with their negative experiences. This alone confirms the many things Corwynn, myself, and others have been saying.

If you wish to keep ignoring them, you're being selfish and just arguing in favor of bias.

Having more people claim something is true does not make it true.

And even without meters, PUGs still kick people when they shouldn't and have unnecessarily high restrictions to join. Meters just replace other excuses that they would use, they don't cause any of the behavior.

[silentwraith]

PUGs without meters are just as full of ******bags, correct.

But you don't give ******bags access to tools which bring even more harm, and "******ry."

Don't know why ANYONE in favor of meters is still arguing at this point. We've already had multiple people come in with their negative experiences. This alone confirms the many things Corwynn, myself, and others have been saying.

If you wish to keep ignoring them, you're being selfish and just arguing in favor of bias.

Personal opinion is not fact.. many of us could careless about those who got excluded due to low dps as parsing will cause the same.. since you missed that argument Ill state it again.

You can keep hammering this thread pretending it speaks for the majority however it does not.. only a dev controlled survey will show the true numbers and even then that is only those who read the forums.

Once again if your a half decent player your dps will be good.. as it is secondary to other skill sets as you stated.. however someone who consistently has bad dps is most certainly a bad player.. Like that rogue who took gouge for endgame raiding in wow and thought his roll was to off tank..

So really I still cant understand why if your are a good player as you claim are so afraid of people being ******s to you since you should easily be able to beat a silly meter due to your old hardcore skill.