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Thread: [DPS Meters] Truth for those capable of understanding it.

  1. #151
    Shield of Telara Badgered's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haseno View Post
    I love how you call the anti-side selfish.

    When we feel ACT/Riftjunkies Parser is a good compromise.

    You get the tool if you use ACT/Riftjunkies Parser.

    Any further than that would be considered selfish.
    Actually, burdening us with the inconvenience of using an external program to parse our combat logs is selfish on your part. As I mentioned in the post where I quoted you defeating your own argument, combat meters and parsers do the same thing. The only difference between the two is that one requires me to play windowed with an overlay and tab out for the good, in-depth information, while the other gives me all of that information in-game.

    Basically, your side of the argument is being spiteful for the sake of being spiteful. It's a combination of funny and sad.
    Greybriar
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    Let's put rifts and invasions to good use!

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by ltx View Post
    You don't know how APIs work.
    lol okay mister.

    just dont come crying when one of the first app someone makes with the new API is a combat meter.

  3. #153
    Ascendant Haseno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radimus View Post
    Hello! There's more than just black and white. There's tons and tons of shades of grey! Nobody stops you from picking the grey (or white or black) you like.

    So far I'm staying out of debating the actual topic with the specific OP. I recognize futility miles ahead.
    Hello! I am far from futile. How do you think I came to acknowledge the pro's and con's of this debate? It's because I actually listen to all sides of an argument.


    Haseno
    "Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
    I love my comma's, deal with it, chump.

  4. #154
    General of Telara Warfister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haseno View Post
    Lol.

    I acknowledged who the guilty party is. I said so in my original post. I also wish people would stop bringing in the metaphor of guns into the topic. The boundaries of gaming and life are separate, and should remain as such.
    LOL all you want. The metaphor works in this case whether you like it or not. If you want to talk about a tools "impact" on community there really is no better real world example. You support parsers but don't want meters, flawed logic is flawed logic no matter how you try to spin it

  5. #155
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgered View Post
    You're right, I can. The difference between your stance and mine is that mine is actually logical, while yours is a reactionary approach to the problem. You do not limit people's freedoms or choices simply because someone may abuse said freedom or choice. You punish those that abuse them and let everyone else enjoy them.
    While I agree with your theory of problem-solving, I would make two pragmatic observations:

    1) Your approach is the preferred long-term approach. "Long-term" is over the span of generations, not months or even years. This is because people are fundamentally dumb and slow learners. Your approach has a higher up-front cost (i.e. more idiots abusing meters) for a larger benefit later (more players understanding how to use meters). So if you can make the argument that the larger benefit (of a more educated playerbase) will actually come about within this game's lifespan (of years), we're good.

    Only, WoW has been around forever, and from most players' standpoint, stupid is still king there.

    2) How would you propose we "punish" people who abuse meters? How do we stop people from indulging their idiocy?

  6. #156
    Ascendant Haseno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgered View Post
    Actually, burdening us with the inconvenience of using an external program to parse our combat logs is selfish on your part. As I mentioned in the post where I quoted you defeating your own argument, combat meters and parsers do the same thing. The only difference between the two is that one requires me to play windowed with an overlay and tab out for the good, in-depth information, while the other gives me all of that information in-game.

    Basically, your side of the argument is being spiteful for the sake of being spiteful. It's a combination of funny and sad.
    I'm so glad you mentioned "inconvenience."

    What is more inconvenient?

    Expecting the supporters to alt-tab for 5 seconds?

    or

    Expecting multiple thousands of people to tolerate excessive behavior, which could be reduced and/or prevented?


    Haseno
    "Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
    I love my comma's, deal with it, chump.

  7. #157
    Shield of Telara Axxtasy's Avatar
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    I would like to include, for all of your enjoyment, some samples of Haseno's (the OP) insanity. This guy is all over the place, and spends an inordinate amount of time on the forums, all the while with an inflated sense of superiority and suffering from an extreme lack of continuity or even logic.

    From this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haseno View Post
    And for the record.

    I support Parsing.

    I use ACT.
    Decrying the use of parsers/meters

    Quote Originally Posted by Haseno View Post
    In challenging content, I don't need these tools. I have always prevailed without them, and I am on par with ANY player who uses them. I'm not afraid of someone seeing my damage. I'm simply afraid of the hostile community in which spreads due to such a thing. You assume to many things from me.

    I'm not afraid to improve myself in game, but I do so in the intended way. Life Experience, which in MMO-Land....means Gaming Experience. No matter what tool you have available, it does not make you better. As true practice and experience is what determines actual skill. All these type of tools do, is paint a false portrait of skill, by teaching players how to use proper rotation.
    Answering how he would build his character without some sort of parsing

    Quote Originally Posted by Haseno View Post
    Ummm, experimentation? Trial and error?

    Perhaps actually playing your game and character?
    Backpedaling on using a parser. Him or his guild. lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haseno View Post
    Not my fault you take what I said out of context. When I say I "will" use a parser, it's hypothetical, as in. If I ever wanted to use something, I would use a parser.

    However, I never truly will.

    You're right, my guild will use parsers. Oh yeah, that's right...until we decided not to use them. Have you been in my guild vent to hear our discussions about this issue? Nope.
    Again explaining that we won't use parsers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haseno View Post
    That's because, I was speaking in 3rd person. I do that quite a lot in forums.

    I will never use a parser, nor have I.
    Explaining that it was a misunderstanding that he was using parsers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haseno View Post
    True. It's actually just a misunderstanding.

    I've never used parsers, never will. Have always allowed them, as long as they remain out of game.

    You don't have to believe me, I don't care if you do. My stance doesn't change, nor does the facts of the argument.
    He has also said that he is a mental health professional, which gives him insight into the postings of members of the forums. He has said that the "undeserving" should leave the game. He has said not "to sass him, you are the nobody around here".

    The guy is a true blue crazy person and nothing he says should be taken seriously in any manner whatsoever.

    Oh edit: He also says that he writes poetry for a hobby and that his average use of words is meant to avoid confusion. lol he is a gem.
    Last edited by Axxtasy; 03-03-2011 at 11:06 AM.

  8. #158
    Ascendant Haseno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfister View Post
    LOL all you want. The metaphor works in this case whether you like it or not. If you want to talk about a tools "impact" on community there really is no better real world example. You support parsers but don't want meters, flawed logic is flawed logic no matter how you try to spin it
    It does not work.

    The repercussions of life differ from in-game.


    Haseno
    "Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
    I love my comma's, deal with it, chump.

  9. #159
    Shadowlander
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    "[DPS Meters] Truth for those capable of understanding it. "

    Stopped reading right there.

    This community is becomming just as rude as WoW's community.

  10. #160
    Ascendant Haseno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxtasy View Post
    I would like to include, for all of your enjoyment, some samples of Haseno's (the OP) insanity. This guy is all over the place, and spends an inordinate amount of time on the forums, all the while with an inflated sense of superiority and suffering from an extreme lack of continuity or even logic.

    From this thread:



    Decrying the use of parsers/meters



    Answering how he would build his character without some sort of parsing



    Backpedaling on using a parser. Him or his guild. lol.



    Again explaining that we won't use parsers.



    Explaining that it was a misunderstanding that he was using parsers.



    He has also said that he is a mental health professional, which gives him insight into the postings of members of the forums. He has said that the "undeserving" should leave the game. He has said not "to sass him, you are the nobody around here".

    The guy is a true blue crazy person and nothing he says should be taken seriously in any manner whatsoever.

    Awww. I'm so glad you showed up.


    Haseno
    "Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
    I love my comma's, deal with it, chump.

  11. #161
    Shield of Telara Badgered's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairlessOrphan View Post
    While I agree with your theory of problem-solving, I would make two pragmatic observations:

    1) Your approach is the preferred long-term approach. "Long-term" is over the span of generations, not months or even years. This is because people are fundamentally dumb and slow learners. Your approach has a higher up-front cost (i.e. more idiots abusing meters) for a larger benefit later (more players understanding how to use meters). So if you can make the argument that the larger benefit (of a more educated playerbase) will actually come about within this game's lifespan (of years), we're good.

    Only, WoW has been around forever, and from most players' standpoint, stupid is still king there.

    2) How would you propose we "punish" people who abuse meters? How do we stop people from indulging their idiocy?
    You punish and isolate them by ignoring them.

    You'd be surprised that, at the end of the day, there are more intelligent people than there are stupid people playing these games. After enough people get fed up with their idiocy, there will be a lot less people willing to play with them than there will be for you to play with.

    By being an adult and doing the sensible thing (ignoring them) you are able to enjoy your combat meter (or tool of choice) while being freed from their stupidity. We have to police ourselves for the most part. There's too many of us for Trion to handle every little issue we may have with another player.
    Greybriar
    Atesh - Bahmi Warrior - REA | CHA
    Ellystra - Bahmi Mage - CHL | STO | PYR
    Let's put rifts and invasions to good use!

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxtasy View Post
    great success
    i'm glad you posted this. I have observed the same patterns, I'm just too lazy to be bothered about doing the work to find them.

    congratulations sir, you win the prize.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skerry View Post
    Except that players don't deal with the issue. They /ignore them, which is pretty close to apathy. If I just ignore it, it will go away - well it does, for you. Meanwhile the problem still goes on.

    First time I encounter someone doing something annoying.......beit spamming parser info, insulting me or others or just being rude.....I do /ignore them and never group with them again.....I blacklist them amongst my friends and guilds.

    Yes that is sorta ignoring the problem........but the problem at hand is bad/stupid/rude people........which is one that cannot fixed.

    In EQ2 .....on my server.........some of the most blacklisted people were among the highest parsing in their class. They were taking into raids and groups only by those that were only after the high parse. Everyone was happy.

  14. #164
    Ascendant Haseno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mavruss View Post
    "[DPS Meters] Truth for those capable of understanding it. "

    Stopped reading right there.

    This community is becomming just as rude as WoW's community.
    Not rude at all.

    People choose to remain biased, they won't be able to see the truth.

    This includes both sides.


    Haseno
    "Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
    I love my comma's, deal with it, chump.

  15. #165
    Rift Disciple thesoup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haseno View Post
    I'm so glad you mentioned "inconvenience."

    What is more inconvenient?

    Expecting the supporters to alt-tab for 5 seconds?

    or

    Expecting multiple thousands of people to tolerate excessive behavior, which could be reduced and/or prevented?
    Aside from the fact that you have yet to demonstrate that meters cause "excessive behavior" what gives you the right to dictate how other people behave in the game as long as it's within the TOS? They bought the game, they pay their monthly fee, they don't have to like you if they don't want to.

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