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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Bug of Legendary Neddra's grasp

  1.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #16
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    This ability may unfortunately have to be redesigned.

    The issue is how abilities that proc off of an NPC's abilities work in our game. It is not an easy solution as we would have to go through every NPC ability in the game and change them to work with any ability set up like Neddra's Grasp (an extremely non-trivial task).

    As for when the redesign can happen, I can't give you a timeline. I might be able to look at it sometime after Prime launches.

    In the meantime I will try to look at Azranel's abilities and put a bandaid on them so at least they work correctly in regards to how they react with Legendary Neddra's Grasp.

  2. #17
    Prophet of Telara
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    Don't you group abilities in classes or sth so if you change one thing it works for all ?

    I guess you don`t since there are similiar bugs - like Mana Wrench which is acting like a dot even though it`s a channel or some PvE items bypassing bolstering.
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  3. #18
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    I have no idea what language or system you use for npc abilities or what have you but does it not make use of Object orientated design features such as inheritence? Having to go through every npc ability to change something like this may suggest that it doesn't. Just curious really.

  4. #19
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    If you do get around to redesigning it. Please make it simple like Legendary Piercing beam. This would fix both the overriding and not working on some bosses bug. I assume it would be easy to tweak the ability since it would be a copy and paste of Piercing Beam with some name changes, and length of the buff in addition to Neddras Grasp dot code.

    If you really want it to have a condition on it, maybe utilize charge. Something like, you can only use it over 25 charge (probably a bad idea). Maybe some others who are more versed with lock and mage, in general, can comment on how it could be redesigned.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balidin View Post
    I have no idea what language or system you use for npc abilities or what have you but does it not make use of Object orientated design features such as inheritence? Having to go through every npc ability to change something like this may suggest that it doesn't. Just curious really.
    Not that it really answers your question, but information like in this image is publicly available at Trion's asset store. It may however satisfy some of your curiosity

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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balidin View Post
    I have no idea what language or system you use for npc abilities or what have you but does it not make use of Object orientated design features such as inheritence? Having to go through every npc ability to change something like this may suggest that it doesn't. Just curious really.
    To dramatically oversimplify things - Rift uses a "tag" system for abilities. If an ability has the appropriate tag, then it can be used to trigger certain things or be given certain bonuses. In this case, it sounds like a number of boss/NPC skills are missing a tag that Neddra's grasp relies upon to trigger the effect.

    This nature does not lend itself to object oriented design for abilities. However, things are built this way on purpose, because trying to build in flags to classes to inherit for the number of different properties that skills must account for will end up with an incredibly complex and unwieldy object tree that does far more harm than good.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
    This ability may unfortunately have to be redesigned.
    I think a redesign of Neddra's Grasp is a good thing.

    At the moment the mage souls are relatively well balanced among themselves, we have a lot of specs that are currently used in raids. The redesigned ability should continue to be useful for all souls as an alternative to the harbinger soul with legendary piercing beam.

    As a first step in the direction of class balancing, I would increase the damage bonus of Legendary Neddra's Grasp (Lingering Torment) and Legendary Piercing Beam from 20% to 30%. Most of the currently played mage specs would benefit from this without destroying the balance.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clowd View Post
    To dramatically oversimplify things - Rift uses a "tag" system for abilities. If an ability has the appropriate tag, then it can be used to trigger certain things or be given certain bonuses. In this case, it sounds like a number of boss/NPC skills are missing a tag that Neddra's grasp relies upon to trigger the effect.

    This nature does not lend itself to object oriented design for abilities. However, things are built this way on purpose, because trying to build in flags to classes to inherit for the number of different properties that skills must account for will end up with an incredibly complex and unwieldy object tree that does far more harm than good.

    Thanks for the reply both Archyface and Clowd

    I don't have a lot of experience with markup languages other than with some android projects so I don't really know enough to have a decent comment. Saying that though, on a more general point, having to manually change variables like that makes the software engineer in me shudder. There must be a better way to handle it with either some global variables (which may bring it's own problems) or something similar to inheritence.

    Perhaps many people smarter than myself have tried other ways and this is the best but man it doesn't sit well at all. At this point I would suggest Trion not implement anything that has overly complicated logic and interactions. i.e. no more eternal weapons or skills like this.

  9. #24
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    RIFT 4.3: Hotfix #18 2/28/2018

    WARLOCK
    * Lingering Torment will no longer be overwritten by another player’s version of the debuff.
    Lingering Torment is still being overwritten by other mages!

    Mages currently have a pretty good balance within the mages souls which is quite amazing and leads to high diversity if the bug would not exist.

    The following specs based on Lingering Torment are currently used in Raids:
    • 61 Warlock/13 Dominator/2 Arb
    • 61 Warlock/15 Necro /0 Arbiter
    • 61 Pyro/ 11 Warlock/4 Ele
    • 61 Necro/11 Warlock/4 Ele
    • 61 Archon/11 Warlock/4 Ele
    • 61 Chloro/11 Warlock/4 Ele

    Because of the bug none of the above specs can be played once more than 1 mage uses Legendary Neddra's Grasp. The bug reduces the number of playable specs dramatically and a fix should have a high priority.

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