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Thread: [3.5] Comprehensive Paragon Guide

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    Ascendant DarkDaemon's Avatar
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    Default [3.7] Comprehensive Paragon Guide

    Thanks to Acuta, who wrote the original 3.3 guide, Byaku, who came up with the old rotation, and Secondbass.

    Paragon is currently a top parsing single target warrior spec, rivaled by Warlord. Although it has extremely bad cleave, paragon has very good disconnect capabilities (Grasping the Horizon allows most of your attacks to be made at a 20 m range for 15 seconds every 30 seconds), strong synergy with raid cooldowns, 2 stuns/debilitates, a charge, and a movement speed increasing ability. It also has high burst and synergy with raid cooldowns, and is a spec that should be in every warrior's arsenal.

    Changelog:

    Paragon received several direct and indirect buffs in Hotfix #7 (Patch 3.7).
    • Shatter (First tier Warlord branch talent) increased from 1% damage increased damage taken per point to 2%
    • Shifting Blades (28 point root ability) now affects the next four abilities, up from three
    • Strike Like Iron (51 point root passive) increased from 25% increased damage done to 30%

    This means that it's now a gain to take Shatter over Soldier's Might, as a 10% damage taken debuff is stronger than 10% STR by a considerable margin. Death Touch must now be used earlier in the rotation to consume Shifting Blades, as it does considerably more damage than Setting Moon.

    Where you can/should play Paragon:

    Use Paragon in fights that are relatively melee friendly, have no extended disconnects, and do not require extensive cleave. Paragon is very good at target swapping and short term disconnects.


    Spoiler!


    The build:

    61 Paragon 10 Warlord 5 Tempest - main PvE variant

    61 Paragon 9 Warlord 6 Tempest - Elude for PvP
    61 Paragon 10 Warlord 5 Champion - F2P variant
    61 Paragon 7 Warlord 8 Champion - Armor debuff and F2P variant

    The armor debuff is worth roughly 1.5% additional physical damage. It MAY be worth running if your raid has multiple paragons/shamans. Critagon can also be used to run an armor debuff.

    54 Paragon 22 Champion 0 Tempest - Critagon

    Buffs:

    Turn the Blade
    Way of the Wind
    Way of the River
    Enhanced Conductivity


    OPTIONAL:

    Recovery Posture (will turn Sergeant's Order into a taunt)
    Focus of the Body (overwritten in raid)




    ADDITIONAL Toggle:

    Sweeping Blades - this is a loss unless there are at least 4 targets. Do not use Open the Stream with this.

    Gear and stats:

    Spoiler!


    Utility:

    Fleet of Foot: Increases movement speed by 50% for 21 seconds, 45 second CD
    Thread the Trees: A charge and 1.5 second root, 15 second CD
    Grasping the Horizon: Extends the range of all your attacks other than Death Touch to 20 m for 15 seconds, 30 second CD
    Sergeant's Order: 20 m range pull, off GCD, 8 second CD
    Eye of the Storm: 10 second off GCD 50% snare, 10 second CD
    Wrist Strike: 5 second debilitate, 30 second CD
    Predictable Movements: 4 second stun, 30 second CD
    Flinching Strike: 20 m range interrupt, 8 second CD

    Macros:

    Spoiler!


    Possible bar setup:

    Paragon is generally played with 8 buttons, 7 of which are used in the main rotation. Setting Moon should be on your bar because it's the first ability you should use (since it buffs the damage of your follow up attacks considerably).

    F1: Death Touch
    F2: Flurry
    1: Builder Macro
    2: Open the Stream
    3: Reaping Harvest
    4: Shifting Blades Macro
    5: Combat Focus Macro
    6: Alacrity Macro
    7: Breaking Blow

    This works for me because I have a small keyboard and a Razer Naga, so reaching anything is easy. Switch 5 and 6/F1 and F2 for Q and E or something else easily reachable if your keyboard is big.

    Learning Paragon:

    Spoiler!


    Rotation:

    Opener
    Spoiler!


    Start with 3 attack points and a Breaking Blow if you can. As your support to accommodate and do CDs at 6 seconds in instead of 2-3 GCDs if possible.

    Setting Moon → Open the Stream → (Shifting Blades)
    Tranquility → Rising Waterfall → (Alacrity) Reaping Harvest
    Death Touch → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Setting Moon → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    (Combat Focus) Reaping Harvest
    Rising Waterfall → Breaking Blow

    Setting Moon → Open the Stream → (Shifting Blades)
    Tranquility → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Death Touch → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Setting Moon → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Flurry (2 ticks) → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest

    Setting Moon → Open the Stream → (Shifting Blades)
    Tranquility → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Death Touch → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Setting Moon → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    (Combat Focus) Reaping Harvest
    Rising Waterfall → Breaking Blow

    Setting Moon → Open the Stream → (Shifting Blades)
    Tranquility → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Death Touch → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Setting Moon → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Flurry (2 ticks) → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest


    With my bar set up:
    Spoiler!


    Kalert to keep track of Double Jeopardy:

    Code:
    KA:Double Jeopardy:ap+ageNotjdEKAiEQRX+lL9jWWi2Yx3aFeqhY7E2I2TQSTGXXCP8+lTgz
    zGUu3AsEBASLSc9QJM/b+89k9eqkfcBZJXDeaWDZ5pk2M5pnhB4jruXtKHEy1sR0Nw/vFvnVGPJ9
    m/gi2Ci1AO0osH0Hu00Z0tCcBIfhLIaxKFLZtrVaXK5/h5YHq4X8BysXMdM
    A video of a parse and a break down (slightly skewed by the T3 trinket and Power Manipulation because of shameless preloading):



    This parse was slightly off. I had very little latency, so I was ahead in the rotation at certain points. I could have squeezed out a tiny bit more DPS by letting flurry tick on for another tick once or twice. You can clearly see some abilities not going off in the macros.

    Last edited by DarkDaemon; 08-29-2016 at 08:32 PM.

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    Is this spec even better than the critagon?

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    RIFT Guide Writer SecondBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post
    Is this spec even better than the critagon?
    If both are well played, yes, full paragon will perform better than critagon. Aligning your alacrity block with raid cooldowns (lava field & wild growth) is such a huge damage spike that it'll easily outweigh critagon's advantages. If your raid's cooldowns are gonna be out of sync with alacrity due to the nature of a fight (Vis & Miscordia), or, more pessimistically, bad players, critagon is comparable or even ahead of 61 para.

    If you can play 61 para, you can play critagon; here's the cheat sheet

    build (as mentioned above):
    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#7...E5llaF0/V|XJX0

    rotation:
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDaemon View Post
    Setting Moon → Open the Stream → (Shifting Blades)
    Tranquility → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Setting Moon → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Death Touch → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Setting Moon/Flurry (2 ticks) → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Use Mark of Inevitability at the start of combat and whenever a new mob joins the fray and re-apply it before it falls off (last 60s).
    The cockroaches won.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kajib View Post
    I hate to brag but am one of those pro warriors who tries to push things to the limit, broken so many records
    4.1 Champion4.1 Overlord 4.1 Riftblade4.1 Reaver4.1 Tempest4.1 Warpest
    3.7 Beastmaster3.7 Liberator3.7 Paladin3.7 Void Knight

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    Champion Sahtiaro's Avatar
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    I noticed that I am probably the only warrior in the top guilds that plays paragon COMPLETELY different and my rotation goes like this:

    Setting Moon → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Tranquility → Open the Stream → Shifting Blades
    (Combat Focus + Alacrity) Reaping Harvest
    Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Setting Moon → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Death Touch → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest

    Setting Moon → Open the Stream → Shifting Blades
    Tranquility → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Setting Moon → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Death Touch → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Setting Moon → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest

    Setting Moon → Open the Stream → Shifting Blades
    (Combat Focus) Reaping Harvest
    Tranquility → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Setting Moon → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Death Touch → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Setting Moon → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest

    Setting Moon → Open the Stream → (Shifting Blades)
    Tranquility → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Setting Moon → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Death Touch → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest
    Setting Moon → Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest


    I'd like to say that I know this isn't best rotation on paper and on dummy - solo but in my opinion it is the best way u can play paragon in raid.

    Why:
    1.) In raid u can't get 5. RH into alacrity to double hit.
    2.) All RH during CDs(lava, enrage,wg,t3 relic proc) are affected by Combat Focus in my rotation
    3.) Flurry generates unwanted extra lag and can delay rotation in raid big time.
    4.) Shifting blades hits insanely hard with mega buffed RH during Alacrity.
    5.) It requires 1 less button to play - helps in stressful situations.



    Here's a video of me parsing my rotation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDXA41pOXH0

    Last edited by Sahtiaro; 03-04-2016 at 05:05 AM.
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    I'll add on something to this. By far the most important thing if you want to do a good parse is to keep your rotation as short as possible. What I mean by that is that your amount of global cooldowns per second needs to be as high as possible. This might seem obvious, but if you compare parses you will see that there are differences here.

    The paragon rotation is made to deal with some of the server lag, since it only uses 14 global cooldowns per 15 seconds. This puts the theoretical max on GCD per second at 0.93. The best parses are all at the 0.88-0.90 range. When you can keep your rotation up like this, your cooldowns will automaticly line up with the support cds (assuming you started them at the same time on the pull and the supports use cooldowns about every 62 seconds).

    This might seem obvious but if you check these numbers for parses you will see that a lot of people are around 0.85 or even lower, which is a significant dps loss. You can increase your gcd/sec by having a very good muscle memory (lots of practice!) so that you never hesitate in your rotation. It's also important that you know the fight you are doing well, so that you can move optimally and never lose even a fraction of a second to disconnects.

    A slightly different problem with a similar cause: clipping open the stream. When the server lag is very low, it can cause a problem with your rotation. If the server lag is only 0.03s per global cooldown, you can do something like 0.97 gcd/sec and this is a problem because your rotation can only accomodate 0.93 at max.
    So what ends up happening in this case is that you reapply Open the Stream just a fraction of a second before it does the last tick, which is a dps loss. After that, you will have to wait for the shifting blades cooldown, so you don't even gain anything from using these extra global cooldowns. The solution is to wait just a little bit before applying OtS so that you can make your rotation function the normal way. It's not easy to do this perfect every single time, but every time you prevent clipping is some dps gained.

    Here is an example of how you can count your global cooldowns used to see your activity level:
    Acuta 19/11
    https://prancingturtle.com/Encounter...ageDone/84569#
    179x RH - 40x double ticks = 139
    107x RW + 45x FB = 152 - 24x double ticks = 128
    190x OtS, 6 ticks per use (rounding up) = 32
    81x SM 81
    32x DT 32
    32x TQ 32

    444/(8*60+12)=90.2%


    One more thing, about flurry. This is really only good for dummy parsing. It's more trouble than it's worth for actual fights, just adds extra delay for your rotation. None of the top parsing warriors on prancingturtle use flurry.

    @Sahtiar: it's possible to get 5x RH into alacrity. And if you have so much delay that you can't, you are shooting yourself in the foot by making your rotation longer with a 15 gcd block (instead of the usual 14) which means you are delaying your alacrity. In your best parse on prancingturtle, you start your last alacrity when enrage is already over, partly because of this extra delay you introduced yourself by using this rotation. You would do better switching to the other rotation.
    Last edited by ttlyevil; 03-04-2016 at 03:46 AM.
    Acuta - Apotheosys

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    Champion Sahtiaro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttlyevil View Post
    @Sahtiar: it's possible to get 5x RH into alacrity. And if you have so much delay that you can't, you are shooting yourself in the foot by making your rotation longer with a 15 gcd block (instead of the usual 14) which means you are delaying your alacrity. In your best parse on prancingturtle, you start your last alacrity when enrage is already over, partly because of this extra delay you introduced yourself by using this rotation. You would do better switching to the other rotation.
    I haven't seen anyone get 5.RH to double hit with alacrity. Here's an example from one of the best paragon players in EU atm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFLnbSKHNrY As you can see: 404 issue 5.double RH NOT FOUND!

    Maybe you could do it (crazy good latency??) and Fina? (but hes from NA - not sure how he deals with it). Me personally couldn't ever get it done in raid, because i have horrible internet connection and i assume other people have exactly the same problem as me. That's what I've seen from kill videos.

    I know about that extra second and how I deal with it in raid is that before 4. Shifting blades I don't use RH i just go: Builder -> Follow up -> Builder -> OtS -> SB It saves 1 second and that RH would be used when there should be no raid CDS so it not a huge deal.

    Both rotations have issue with that extra second delay.

    And in raid with MANY 0,5s and 1s lag spikes u can forget about optimal rotation in any case.
    Last edited by Sahtiaro; 03-04-2016 at 04:29 AM.
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    Ascendant DarkDaemon's Avatar
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    Thanks Acuta, that's very good to know. I think I'll make a kalert to track OtS to ensure that the last tick isn't wasted. Personally, I mostly use Flurry for very short disconnects, like on the Dark Genesis melee side mini. I also want to ideally use it I'm ahead, and I try to if I see that I'll need to wait for SB to come off CD.

    @Sahtiaro
    I find squeezing three off GCDs together really messes with me, especially in raid. Also, personally, I can get a final two point RH in Alacrity roughly half the time with the current internet that I use. In my dummies dimension or PTS, I can almost always get that last RH.

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    Great guide, really nice to see the Trinity (ripperino trinityno) wars helping out the community with your in depth guides

    I personally don't like or suggest using alacrity+CF at the same time, 2 OGCD abilities in a row is generally a bad idea, and there are multiple posts about it which confirm that belief (even if you get off 5 RH's during alacrity it's still an overall loss to do it that way versus using CF at the tail end of alacrity).

    If you are a new player learning paragon, I wouldn't suggest using Sahtiar's rotation either, it's never a good idea to delay cooldowns like that and in a long fight you are not even going to get your cooldowns aligned with the supports (Not saying that it's not viable, I just wouldn't suggest it; if it works for him it might work for you as well).
    Last edited by Aayden; 06-03-2016 at 05:15 PM. Reason: ripperino trinityno

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    Shadowlander Copacetic's Avatar
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    You also have to remember that even if your final RH at the tail end of the rotation doesn't double-proc, it's still a dps gain over the other rotation. The double-proc is just an added bonus when it does happen.

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    Noob here.

    > Death Touch is pushed to the fifth set of builders because Double Jeopardy must be up to boost the crit chance of Open the Stream and the Rising Waterfall that consumes Shifting Blades

    That appears to be in the fourth set of builders? And how bad is it to just macro Death Touch which means it'd be used in the third builder set?

    > (Combat Focus) Reaping Harvest
    > Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest

    > The next step is to start adding Combat Focus, your 30 second cooldown. Many people struggle with the Rising Waterfall - Reaping Harvest portion of the rotation, so make sure you get that down.

    The rotation appears to go CF, RH, RW, then a two-point RH, correct? So this macro would do that, correct?

    #show Combat Focus
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Combat focus
    cast Reaping Harvest
    cast Final Blessing
    cast Rising Waterfall

    > Combat focus is placed in the second last line so that it boosts the damage of the Reaping Harvest that consumes Shifting Blades in the next block.

    I don't understand this at all. Combat Focus increases the damage of the NEXT Reaping Harvest, and I don't see anything in the tree that makes it affect more than one? There are two RHs, then Shifting Blades, and only then an SB-boosted RH?
    Edit: nevermind, found it in the level 62 mastery


    And if you're macroing Shock Pulse in, why not macro Skyfall in with RH?
    Last edited by forbiddenlake; 03-06-2016 at 06:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by forbiddenlake View Post
    Noob here.

    > Death Touch is pushed to the fifth set of builders because Double Jeopardy must be up to boost the crit chance of Open the Stream and the Rising Waterfall that consumes Shifting Blades

    That appears to be in the fourth set of builders? And how bad is it to just macro Death Touch which means it'd be used in the third builder set?

    > (Combat Focus) Reaping Harvest
    > Rising Waterfall → Reaping Harvest

    > The next step is to start adding Combat Focus, your 30 second cooldown. Many people struggle with the Rising Waterfall - Reaping Harvest portion of the rotation, so make sure you get that down.

    The rotation appears to go CF, RH, RW, then a two-point RH, correct? So this macro would do that, correct?

    #show Combat Focus
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Combat focus
    cast Reaping Harvest
    cast Final Blessing
    cast Rising Waterfall

    > Combat focus is placed in the second last line so that it boosts the damage of the Reaping Harvest that consumes Shifting Blades in the next block.

    I don't understand this at all. Combat Focus increases the damage of the NEXT Reaping Harvest, and I don't see anything in the tree that makes it affect more than one? There are two RHs, then Shifting Blades, and only then an SB-boosted RH?
    Edit: nevermind, found it in the level 62 mastery


    And if you're macroing Shock Pulse in, why not macro Skyfall in with RH?
    You can do all of those things, it dumbs down the spec, but someone much smarter than me did the math and found death touch is best used where it's at in the rotation, so most people just do it that way. You can make lazy mode paragon macros and it will still work, but in order to maximize your dps it's not recommended.

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    Ascendant DarkDaemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forbiddenlake View Post
    That appears to be in the fourth set of builders? And how bad is it to just macro Death Touch which means it'd be used in the third builder set?
    Typo

    Macroing it in is a loss, and you'll lose double jeopardy for one of the Alacrity RWs. It's not toooooo big of a loss. However, you'll then need to have setting moon on its own button, since not using it as your first ability is a larger loss.

    If you use the alternate macro I posted, you'll need to press Setting Moon once as your first ability, and again in your first Alacrity (assuming no disconnects) and then you no longer need to use it again (since its used off CD).

    Quote Originally Posted by forbiddenlake View Post
    I don't understand this at all. Combat Focus increases the damage of the NEXT Reaping Harvest, and I don't see anything in the tree that makes it affect more than one? There are two RHs, then Shifting Blades, and only then an SB-boosted RH?
    Yeah it's a mastery.

    Quote Originally Posted by forbiddenlake View Post
    And if you're macroing Shock Pulse in, why not macro Skyfall in with RH?
    Mainly because of Alacrity, Shifting Blades and Combat Focus. Spending 0.3 seconds getting back into melee and delaying a RH by a tiny bit is much better than a skyfall. In contrast, you're only losing double jeopardy and a small bit of damage with shock pulse replacing a setting moon.

    For example, if you're switching to the Friend on Guurloth and you switch to him as he's running to the tank. It's a pretty significant loss to use Skyfall instead of a CF boosted RH if you take just a little too long to get back in melee.

    That CF macro is fine, but it doesn't save any buttons so I don't see the point of it.
    Last edited by DarkDaemon; 03-07-2016 at 10:58 AM.

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    Telaran Biscuitsyum's Avatar
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    Thanks for the awesome guide! I appreciate the work y'all put into explaining this to idiots such as myself!

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    Ascendant Byaku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahtiaro View Post
    I haven't seen anyone get 5.RH to double hit with alacrity. Here's an example from one of the best paragon players in EU atm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFLnbSKHNrY As you can see: 404 issue 5.double RH NOT FOUND!
    Being "one of the best Paragon players" doesn't exempt you from ever being able to make mistakes. I just had a look at the video and he's popping Alacrity close to 0.5s before his GCD was actually ready. By the time he went into his "Setting Moon" that follows up the Reaping Harvest there's already only 8s-9s remaining on his Alacrity. Which is why I and many others said a long time ago to hit it at the "TOP" of your GCD. You're not supposed to queue Alacrity or your Reaping Harvest.

    What does this mean? It means you're going to have down-time equivalent to your latency, I used to play with 300ms on average (Australia ---> NA) which meant my Alacrity and Reaping Harvest signal will not be received by the server until 0.3s later. Account for the 0.3s loss, I would take a 0.3s down-time on DPS to squeeze a 5th "free" strike of Reaping Harvest with Raid Cool-Downs any day.

    Obviously this adds up over time. You're looking at 0.3s (for me) loss every minute (minimum) without going into internal cool-down timers. At 5 minutes alone is already 1.5s loss and even 3s at 10 minutes. That's 3 whole GCDs. At this point you need to factor the 3 GCDs that you've lost which would be your standard opener (SM > RW > RH), obviously those would be better than a single 2-Point Reaping Harvest boosted by 30% + Raid Cool-Downs. However, again keep in mind this 3 GCD value was based on my ping (300ms), and I also based the situation around a time where 10 minute fights were not a thing. This means that if you have for instance 100ms like most people, you're looking at 0.1s loss every 60s, which is effectively 1s every 10 minutes or 1 GCD. On Average this is much greater a gain for sure assuming you're able to hit your Alacrity at the TOP of the GCD without losing even more delay from "reaction".

    Latency has very little to do with hitting the 5th Reaping Harvest. I hope that helps.
    Last edited by Byaku; 03-19-2016 at 02:45 AM.

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    There comes a point in this game where you just don´t care anymore about the Reaping Harvest hit because min/maxing the few miliseconds doesn´t matter. You lose so many GCDs, Finishers, Shifting Blades, Hits due to hard Serverlags that it often doesn´t even matter how you play it, you just pray for no lag spikes.
    Maybe you´re blessed in NA but in EU it´s totally luck based if you have skill delay in Alacrity or not and so getting the last Reaping Harvest on it. You can wait whatever the **** and how long you want and don´t get Alacrity 1 millisecond before GCD off, but there´s barely a chance to get the last hit proc.
    Imo the Latency doesn´t say **** right now, on PTS with 300-400ms I can parse whatever and how bad performed how i want and always get the last RH proc just as on Live Server on EU I´m losing about 1 GCD every 50seconds (with 60ms ping) due to serverlag (but depends on the day, it´s varies between 40sec and 1min20). And I´m not the only one so it´s not on my side.
    Last edited by Filri; 03-19-2016 at 08:15 AM.

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