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Thread: 3.0 Tempest by Acuta

  1. #16
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    @Andyboii my "parse" is a demonstration of what you can do with a good opener

    Quote Originally Posted by Byaku View Post
    snip
    As far as I know DC+DuP>LT. DC tooltip is not accurate at all and it does a lot more damage than the tooltip says. Our main tank (a cleric) has never lost aggro to me so I am not worried in that regard.

    Offtopic: What is the rotation you use for the 51 tempest 24 reaver spec? I remember trying a lot of different reaver/tempest hybrids a while back and I couldnt come up with something that I liked for this particular variant.
    Acuta - Apotheosys

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerkonnat View Post
    DC also doesn't eat arc stacks and does more damage, so wouldn't swapping DC and EB around in the OP rotation improve it very slightly?
    They're both only used once per minute so where they're used is pretty interchangeable.

  3. #18
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    [WL]
    CP+DPx3 > Arc
    CP+DPx6
    [end of WL]

    I assume this means cast CP(Charged Pulse) then DPx3 (Double Pulse 3 times) then Arc

    I cant cast Double Pulse 3 times in a row...am I doing something wrong?

  4. #19
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    (CP+DP)x3 would make more sense I guess, not CP+DPx3. WL makes CP instant cast so you can just spam CP+DPs, inserting Arc when necessary.
    Last edited by Sedvick; 01-06-2015 at 02:28 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sedvick View Post
    (CP+DP)x3 would make more sense I guess, not CP+DPx3. WL makes CP instant cast so you can just spam CP+DPs, inserting Arc when necessary.
    LOL THANKS!!! Feel stupid now.

    Only been playing Rift for a few months and one of the other guys I run with wants to try tanking so trying to get a DPS spec going.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sedvick View Post
    They're both only used once per minute so where they're used is pretty interchangeable.
    Although it looks like he change the block after WL

    SS>EB>CP>DP+SF
    LT>EC
    DC>DuP>Arc

    Replacing DelPulse with DC is a DPS upgrade I assume?

    If so it's necessary to replace DC with EB to implement this.
    Gondole@Greybriar Warrior <Lucidium>
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttlyevil View Post
    Offtopic: What is the rotation you use for the 51 tempest 24 reaver spec? I remember trying a lot of different reaver/tempest hybrids a while back and I couldnt come up with something that I liked for this particular variant.
    Isn't that a bug anyway? Considering Infestation is not an "air" ability that Arc should only proc off of?
    Last edited by Solaxys; 01-06-2015 at 06:56 PM.

  8. #23
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    ST>CP>DP+SF
    LT>EC
    DeP>DuP>Arc

    So I noticed you took out SS on this block? Is it better to ST 2 ticks/CP DP?

    Someone had a nice alternate block
    ST (1 Tick) > CP(DP) > SS (SF)
    LT > EC
    DeP> DuP> Arc (DC*) WL Block.

    *Now I do DC in exchange for EB in your rotation (just my preference because that how the rotation was first introduced before) and I push my WL block 1s GCD to refresh DC. I don't know if it's a DPS gain or not.*

    I also have tried so many times to hard cast CP/DP after WL and by the time I do the two other blocks before WL it doesn't align, but it aligns perfect if I don't hardcast the final CP/DP and it shortens the time after WL block to reapply two dots DC/SS on the next block (again because I use DC instead of EB)

    I'd like to hear peoples' thoughts on this if these little changes would be a dps upgrade or not?
    Last edited by TGArthur; 01-06-2015 at 06:57 PM.
    Gondole@Greybriar Warrior <Lucidium>
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    2/3 Tyrant's Forge
    "If a warrior is out parsing you, you are doing something wrong" - Ahov

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solaxys View Post
    Isn't that a bug anyway? Considering Infestation is not an "air" ability that Arc should only proc off of?
    Arc. Doesn't require Air abilities to proc it, it just does Air damage and procs off of any ranged ST attack (non-dots ofc). Now, to address a few of the following points:

    Quote Originally Posted by TGArthur View Post
    ST>CP>DP+SF
    LT>EC
    DeP>DuP>Arc

    So I noticed you took out SS on this block? Is it better to ST 2 ticks/CP DP?
    I also eliminate SS from the final block before WL for the most part for various reasons. The most noticeable of these 2 reasons being SS only delays the WL block with the amount of lag (pick a type) that goes on, and WL blocks outside of VoJ require you to be at ~75+ energy to do them fully unless you get really good energy procs from the mastery. I'd rather be safe then sorry. If you insert an SS in this block but miss even 1 CP(DP) during WL it simply wasn't worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TGArthur View Post
    *Now I do DC in exchange for EB in your rotation (just my preference because that how the rotation was first introduced before) and I push my WL block 1s GCD to refresh DC. I don't know if it's a DPS gain or not.*
    WL is the top priority for Tempest. If it is off cd you should be using it unless raid cds are off by a bit. If everything is flowing correctly, DC is a dps loss if WL is off cd.

    Quote Originally Posted by TGArthur View Post
    I also have tried so many times to hard cast CP/DP after WL and by the time I do the two other blocks before WL it doesn't align, but it aligns perfect if I don't hardcast the final CP/DP and it shortens the time after WL block to reapply two dots DC/SS on the next block (again because I use DC instead of EB)
    I don't see how the next CP(DP) would be on cd seeing as;

    CP>DP+EC
    LT>SF
    DeP>DuP>Arc

    SS>EB>CP>DP+SF
    LT>EC
    DC>DuP>Arc

    the time between the highlighted CP(DP)s is exactly 15s, which is CP's cd. If I didn't mention it earlier, you full channel ST unless you fall behind in the rotation for whatever reason. DC and EB are completely interchangeable in where they are used since both are only used once per minute.
    Last edited by Sedvick; 01-06-2015 at 07:15 PM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sedvick View Post
    They're both only used once per minute so where they're used is pretty interchangeable.
    ops Ignore my last reply. I keep forgetting DelPul is still on CD on that block, so they are interchangeable
    Gondole@Greybriar Warrior <Lucidium>
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sedvick View Post
    Arc. Doesn't require Air abilities to proc it, it just does Air damage and procs off of any ranged ST attack (non-dots ofc). Now, to address a few of the following points:



    I also eliminate SS from the final block before WL for the most part for various reasons. The most noticeable of these 2 reasons being SS only delays the WL block with the amount of lag (pick a type) that goes on, and WL blocks outside of VoJ require you to be at ~75+ energy to do them fully unless you get really good energy procs from the mastery. I'd rather be safe then sorry. If you insert an SS in this block but miss even 1 CP(DP) during WL it simply wasn't worth it.



    WL is the top priority for Tempest. If it is off cd you should be using it unless raid cds are off by a bit. If everything is flowing correctly, DC is a dps loss if WL is off cd.



    I don't see how the next CP(DP) would be on cd seeing as;

    CP>DP+EC
    LT>SF
    DeP>DuP>Arc

    SS>EB>CP>DP+SF
    LT>EC
    DC>DuP>Arc

    the time between the highlighted CP(DP)s is exactly 15s, which is CP's cd. If I didn't mention it earlier, you full channel ST unless you fall behind in the rotation for whatever reason. DC and EB are completely interchangeable in where they are used since both are only used once per minute.

    Thanks for the feedback. On the last part what I mean is the hardcast which you have in green CP DP i was skipping and going straight to EC and when I was done with the entire rotation and blocks, WL was off cooldown as soon as I finished the final rotation. When I added the hardcast CP/DP going into block 1 (in green), when I finish my blocks of rotation, WL comes off CD about 2-3 seconds before you are finishing the final block, so my WL is being pushed 2-3 seconds because of the hard cast.

    However, I haven't tried the final block without SS because of the lag issue as you mentioned it is cast, so that might fix the alignment better when WL comes off CD without it being delayed 2-3 secs after CD.

    Hopefully this wasn't too confusing.
    Gondole@Greybriar Warrior <Lucidium>
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    "If a warrior is out parsing you, you are doing something wrong" - Ahov

  12. #27
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    And I'm referring to the first green CP/DP in my description above
    Gondole@Greybriar Warrior <Lucidium>
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  13. #28
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    Removing the SS and doing a full (2AP if rotation is delayed) ST channel should line everything up better, especially with the current state of lag affecting the rotation and slowing things down.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sedvick View Post
    They're both only used once per minute so where they're used is pretty interchangeable.
    And that's the point, if you swap them around you'll use DC earlier in the fight for the first time. WL resets delayed pulse so De>DuP will cast twice, then the dot macro, and only after that you get EB>DuP on the third time around. You'll get DC ticking 9 second earlier which means you have slightly increased dps until both DC and EB have finished just by swapping them around in macros.

    Warmaster's unless you have a lot of gear (read: relic weapon). With enough gear slayer's crystal becomes a very minor dps gain.
    That's a bit incorrect. Slayer should already do slightly more dps with a blue expert/upgraded craft weapon but the difference is minimal. If you plan on playing Paragon at all, buying warmaster's crystal first is still preferable, because the dps difference between the crystal is hundreds of dps higher on paragon.
    Quack?

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    I've been working on something like this since I got back.

    It's a little tough to get reliable RNG parses for comparison, but theoretically it should be a small gain. Things to note.
    • DC hits way harder than tool-tip values.
    • EC with Precision Strikes can be competitive with Arc. GCD for GCD.
    • DC in Block 1 will not always line-up in the correct spot because Tempest loses 1-2 GCDs out of a 60s cycle. It'll be ready after DP, shouldn't drastically alter the rotation, it'll just run extremely tight.

    There were two sets of comparison when I made this change. Besides the standard rotation, the new rotation offers a few things different which we then take to compare.

    Comparison: LHS = New ; RHS = Old

    Keep in mind the EC on the LHS is 21s whereas the EC on the right is 15s (They're highlighted). EC actually ticks every second, awarding an additional tick at 0s (unlike other DoTs that tick every 3s), so 22 and 16 respectively.

    What we're left with comparing are two sets;
    • ST (3 Ticks) vs SF
    • EC (21s) + DC vs EC (15s) + ARC
    You may want to grab your In-Combat values for this since the tool-tips aren't actually reliable. Tool-tip values also do not calculate extended duration values for DoTs (You'll have to do that yourself). I'm suspecting that there is an issue with DC from old coding as it used to be a GTAE.

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