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Thread: DPS Mathcraft - Armor

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    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Default DPS Mathcraft - Armor

    Greetings, I bring you a new installment of DPS Mathcraft

    Today its ARMOR!

    Now first things first - Armor does NOT have diminishing returns. 1000 more Armor is equally effective if you have 10 Armor or if you have 10,000 Armor

    Yes it is true that the "%" of physical damage reduction you see will be less as stack more and more armor, however that number is misleading!


    A Discovery I made - The X value of Armor at level 50 is 6500!
    What this means is that to calculate how much % damage reduction your armor is providing you need to use the following equation

    Armor / (Armor + 6500) = Physical Damage reduction
    (It also means that you need 6500 Armor to have 50% physical damage reduction)

    This also affects how much Armor you need to gain 1% more effective health
    It means that 65 Armor = 1% more effective health



    Perceived Diminishing Return
    with 1000 Armor you have 13.3% Damage Reduction
    increase that by 1300 gives you 26.1% Damage Reduction
    Makes you think - ZOMG 13% difference!!1!

    but lets factor your 4000 health into it then
    4000 / 0.867 = 4613
    4000 / 0.739 = 5413

    5413 - 4613 = 800


    now someone with a high 15,000!!! armor has 69.7% Damage Reduction
    increase that by 1300 gives you 71.4% Damage Reduction
    Makes you think - WTF only 1% difference!??!1?!

    but lets factor your same 4000 health into it (wow someone with 15000 armor and only 4k hp? get some endurance noob)

    4000 / 0.3023255813953488* = 13230
    4000 / 0.2850877192982456* = 14030

    14030-13230 = 800

    * Rounding decimals screwed over the numbers, so I used full decimals


    Anything I missed from Armor?
    Last edited by Talamare; 04-07-2011 at 10:59 PM.
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

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    Champion ZuKii's Avatar
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    Since we're talking EHP here maybe someone could do a graph of EHP vs hp/armour values because this is slightly misleading.

    If you have 15k armour then sure adding another 1k armour will get you 800 EHP but so will adding ~240 HP. However if you only have 1000 armour, you have to add nearly 700.

    Obviously at that stage it is a lot easier to add 240 HP than it is to add 1k armour.

    Also magic attacks ignore armour so don't stack too much over HP or caster mobs will eat you for breakfast

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    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZuKii View Post
    Since we're talking EHP here maybe someone could do a graph of EHP vs hp/armour values because this is slightly misleading.

    If you have 15k armour then sure adding another 1k armour will get you 800 EHP but so will adding ~240 HP. However if you only have 1000 armour, you have to add nearly 700.

    Obviously at that stage it is a lot easier to add 240 HP than it is to add 1k armour.

    Also magic attacks ignore armour so don't stack too much over HP or caster mobs will eat you for breakfast
    That is true, (ignoring magic <3), that there is a point where getting more Armor is better than getting more Health and vice/versa
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

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    Rift Disciple
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    So you're saying that when VK Ravenous Defense increases my armor from 8500 to 11.5k, I'm gaining about 40-45% more effective health (against physical)? Seems like VK's a bit OP with 20% static magic reduction looming just one tier away.

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    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrix View Post
    So you're saying that when VK Ravenous Defense increases my armor from 8500 to 11.5k, I'm gaining about 40-45% more effective health (against physical)? Seems like VK's a bit OP with 20% static magic reduction looming just one tier away.
    Yes, and 50% Armor would give you 12750 Armor

    Compare it to the Reaver PotM + IA - 15% DR

    using your initial 8500 armor = 56.6% DR

    0.43 * 0.85 = 0.3655 = 63.45% DR - Reaver - Power Masses + Imbued Armor
    12750 armor = 66.2% DR - Void Knight - Ravenous Defense
    Last edited by Talamare; 04-07-2011 at 11:43 PM.
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

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    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZuKii View Post
    graph of EHP vs hp/armour values because this is slightly misleading.
    No point since there is no option

    Name a time when you have to choose between health or armor?

    Higher Armor tank gear = Higher Endurance usually too
    and since Armor isnt a special stat, it only goes up with higher tier gear

    we dont even have any talents to increase our health (Gift doesnt count since all tanks will get it no matter what, and the stam buffs dont count because others can bring it, not to mention both classes with the stam buffs also get 10% armor in tier 1)

    basically any time you can raise your armor, then do it!

    oh and after you have enough basic* EHP to survive a good 2-3 crits/boss ability chains, you should stack Block

    Basic EHP = Armor, 100% chance Damage Reduction and Health
    factoring Avoidance and Block makes things more complicated
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

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    Champion
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    you can choose between a 40 Endurance vial and a ~500 Armor one ... at what point is the Armor one inferior to the Endurance if we ignore magical damage completely?

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    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oktabi View Post
    you can choose between a 40 Endurance vial and a ~500 Armor one ... at what point is the Armor one inferior to the Endurance if we ignore magical damage completely?
    It changes based on HP and Armor

    Give me some HP and Armor values and I can give you an idea
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

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    Plane Walker RugzRift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    It changes based on HP and Armor

    Give me some HP and Armor values and I can give you an idea

    {HP / 1 - <[Armor + 504 / (Armor + 504 + 6500)]/100>} - {HP / 1 - <[Armor / (Armor + 6500)]/100>} = EHP of Armor Serum

    I believe this is the correct formula for the value of the armor potion (assuming it is 504 armor).

    {HP + Endurance Serum / 1 - <[Armor / (Armor + 6500)]/100>} - {HP / 1 - <[Armor / (Armor + 6500)]/100>} = EHP of Endurance Serum

    And this for the Endurance Serum.

    Sorry that it's so unrefined, I feel dirty just posting this horrible equation.
    Last edited by RugzRift; 04-08-2011 at 02:10 AM.
    Rugz - 50 Tank Warrior - <Insert Coin> SteampikeEU

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    Plane Walker RugzRift's Avatar
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    Damn edit function, cleaned up (a bit) and generalized the formula:

    (HP / (1 - ((Armor + ArmorGain / (Armor + ArmorGain + 6500))/100))) - (HP / (1 - ((Armor / (Armor + 6500))/100))) = EHP increase of ArmorGain

    ((HP + HPGain) / (1 - ((Armor / (Armor + 6500))/100))) - (HP / (1 - ((Armor / (Armor + 6500))/100))) = EHP increase of HPGain
    Last edited by RugzRift; 04-08-2011 at 02:26 AM.
    Rugz - 50 Tank Warrior - <Insert Coin> SteampikeEU

  11. #11
    Plane Walker RugzRift's Avatar
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    Disregard the above, I suck at algebra:

    (HP / (1 - (Armor + ArmorGain / (Armor + ArmorGain + 6500)))) - (HP / (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 6500)))) = EHP increase of ArmorGain

    ((HP + HPGain) / (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 6500)))) - (HP / (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 6500)))) = EHP increase of HPGain

    Didn't need those /100 's >.>


    Also WTB edit function.
    Rugz - 50 Tank Warrior - <Insert Coin> SteampikeEU

  12. #12
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugzRift View Post
    Disregard the above, I suck at algebra:

    (HP / (1 - (Armor + ArmorGain / (Armor + ArmorGain + 6500)))) - (HP / (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 6500)))) = EHP increase of ArmorGain

    ((HP + HPGain) / (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 6500)))) - (HP / (1 - (Armor / (Armor + 6500)))) = EHP increase of HPGain

    Didn't need those /100 's >.>


    Also WTB edit function.
    Only way I managed to get the Calc to work was by turning this part

    (Armor + ArmorGain / (Arm

    into

    ((Armor + ArmorGain) / (Arm


    oh and I deleted the /100 thing too <3
    Last edited by Talamare; 04-08-2011 at 02:46 AM.
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  13. #13
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NEHKFGQL

    Calculator in Open Office using your formulas
    Last edited by Talamare; 04-08-2011 at 03:01 AM.
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  14. #14
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i...%3D+0+to+10000

    Chart for the Armor to Damage Reduction curve (remember despite what the Chart says, the effect on Effective Health does NOT CHANGE
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    Yes, and 50% Armor would give you 12750 Armor

    Compare it to the Reaver PotM + IA - 15% DR

    using your initial 8500 armor = 56.6% DR

    0.43 * 0.85 = 0.3655 = 63.45% DR - Reaver - Power Masses + Imbued Armor
    12750 armor = 66.2% DR - Void Knight - Ravenous Defense
    For those of us in the slower category ( to many hits to the head before a decent helmet).

    This means that VK DR is worth more then Reaver DR. But ( I believe the answer is yes I have both and it seems to be that way) do they stack and if so is there diminished returns with the stacking? Is there a reliable way to figure that out?

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