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Thread: DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX

  1. #1
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Default DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX

    This has been the subject of debate for a while now, so lets clear the air

    Using Zukii numbers
    Quote Originally Posted by ZuKii View Post
    1 min of spamming "Power Strike" with 481 AP (non crits only):

    Lowest: 451
    Highest: 581
    Average: 516

    1 min of spamming "Power Strike" with 240 AP (non crits only):

    Lowest: 388
    Highest: 533
    Average: 460

    Off to work but if you want to post pics of DPS meter where you hit something for 3-4 minutes each time with one skill that shows something drastically different (i.e. that attack power is worth it) then be my guest.
    0.23 AP = 1 average damage (AD)

    It takes 27 Dex to = 1% Crit which will also give 6.75 AP
    27 Str to compare will give 20.25 AP

    27 Str = 20.25 * 0.23 = 4.65 AD
    27 Dex = 6.75 * 0.23 = 1.55 AD + 1% Crit

    Lets increase these numbers a bit now
    Say 135 (27*5) difference between STR or DEX
    135 Str = 23.25 AD
    135 Dex = 7.75 AD + 5% Crit

    a Now lets use some base attack numbers, lets start weak with a 400 damage hit and a 10% base crit
    400 damage hit
    Str = ((400 + 23.25) * 0.9)+(((400 + 23.25)*1.5)*0.1) = 444
    Dex = ((400 + 7.75) * 0.85)+(((400 + 7.75)*1.5)*0.15) = 438

    600 damage hit
    Str = ((600 + 23.25) * 0.9)+(((600 + 23.25)*1.5)*0.1) = 654
    Dex = ((600 + 7.75) * 0.85)+(((600 + 7.75)*1.5)*0.15) = 653

    800 damage hit
    Str = ((800 + 23.25) * 0.9)+(((800 + 23.25)*1.5)*0.1) = 864
    Dex = ((800 + 7.75) * 0.85)+(((800 + 7.75)*1.5)*0.15) = 868

    Now with 25% base crit - 400 damage hit
    Str = ((400 + 23.25) * 0.75)+(((400 + 23.25)*1.5)*0.25) = 476
    Dex = ((400 + 7.75) * 0.70)+(((400 + 7.75)*1.5)*0.30) = 468

    600 damage
    Str = ((600 + 23.25) * 0.75)+(((600 + 23.25)*1.5)*0.25) = 701
    Dex = ((600 + 7.75) * 0.70)+(((600 + 7.75)*1.5)*0.30) = 698

    800 damage
    Str = ((800 + 23.25) * 0.75)+(((800 + 23.25)*1.5)*0.25) = 926
    Dex = ((800 + 7.75) * 0.70)+(((800 + 7.75)*1.5)*0.30) = 928


    Final numbers - Slayer vs Soldier with 40% Crit STR vs DEX - 400 Damage
    Str Soldier= (((400 + 23.25) * 0.6)+(((400 + 23.25)*1.5)*0.4))*1.08 = 548
    Str Slayer = ((400 + 23.25) * 0.6)+((((400 + 23.25)*1.5)*0.4)*1.25) = 571
    Dex Soldier = (((400 + 7.75) * 0.55)+(((400 + 7.75)*1.5)*0.45))*1.08 = 539
    Dex Slayer = ((400 + 7.75) * 0.55)+((((400 + 7.75)*1.5)*0.45)*1.25) = 568

    600 damage
    Str Soldier= (((600 + 23.25) * 0.6)+(((600 + 23.25)*1.5)*0.4))*1.08 = 807
    Str Slayer = ((600 + 23.25) * 0.6)+((((600 + 23.25)*1.5)*0.4)*1.25) = 841
    Dex Soldier = (((600 + 7.75) * 0.55)+(((600 + 7.75)*1.5)*0.45))*1.08 = 804
    Dex Slayer = ((600 + 7.75) * 0.55)+((((600 + 7.75)*1.5)*0.45)*1.25) = 847

    800 damage
    Str Soldier= (((800 + 23.25) * 0.6)+(((800 + 23.25)*1.5)*0.4))*1.08 = 1066
    Str Slayer = ((800 + 23.25) * 0.6)+((((800 + 23.25)*1.5)*0.4)*1.25) = 1111
    Dex Soldier = (((800 + 7.75) * 0.55)+(((800 + 7.75)*1.5)*0.45))*1.08 = 986
    Dex Slayer = ((800 + 7.75) * 0.55)+((((800 + 7.75)*1.5)*0.45)*1.25) = 1125



    Summary
    Str is better when you are weaker
    Dex is better when you are stronger

    Dex scales better than Str, but it isnt fast enough
    Last edited by Talamare; 03-21-2011 at 12:08 PM.
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    Can we get an extrapolation and summation of these numbers?

  3. #3
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talesavo View Post
    Can we get an extrapolation and summation of these numbers?
    Summary
    Str is better when you are weaker
    Dex is better when you are stronger

    Dex scales better than Str, but it isnt fast enough
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser
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    Essentially its saying that slayer's is better than soldiers bearing.

    Str and Dex builds are going to be pretty close so it's a wash at the end of the day.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heebs View Post
    Essentially its saying that slayer's is better than soldiers bearing.

    Str and Dex builds are going to be pretty close so it's a wash at the end of the day.
    Slayer is only better than Soldier at over 38% Crit (or if youre in pvp looking for burst from forced crits)

    and yep
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    Slayer is only better than Soldier at over 38% Crit (or if youre in pvp looking for burst from forced crits)

    and yep
    For a pure PVE standpoint if you want max dps you should just be stacking plate with str and running soldier's bearing which I would assume most people do anyway since I doubt people have a 38% crit chance consistently during a fight not to mention I believe most people will be running a champ/bm build and all their bleeds should be taking bonuses from soldier's and not slayers.

    This should help some Rogues breathe easier. I'll parse a build later tonight where the only difference will be swapping str for dex gear. I'll post up all my stats and build as well to see if we can get some "real world" confirmation of the math.
    Last edited by Heebs; 03-21-2011 at 12:15 PM.

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    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heebs View Post
    For a pure PVE standpoint if you want max dps you should just be stacking plate with str and running soldier's bearing which I would assume most people do anyway since I doubt people have a 38% crit chance consistently during a fight not to mention I believe most people will be running a champ/bm build and all their bleeds should be taking bonuses from soldier's and not slayers.
    Bleeds crit
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    Bleeds crit
    I have noticed that too, I wasn't sure if the bonus would be worth it on such a small scale damage hit (between 100-110 on bleeds for me). I'll also try both bearing's to see which will give me a greater DPS boost over a ~5 minute fight.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    *devs sticky*

  10. #10
    Champion Phylo's Avatar
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    As a BM.

    i tried running Soliders, thinking yes, more consistent damage.

    but as soon as you get in a group that has support,you are going to get a boost to crit.

    by myself i'm at 17% to crit, 21% with Way of the River, 31% diversion Strike'd so it's not rare to get that 30% + crit

    i'm just in 'ok' gear, but i focus on trying to get Crit Plate, i dont want to steal rogue leather.

    and so as much as i like Soldiers, i see much better numbers switching to Slayes (have them fully improved), and have started to run that all the time.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker ethix's Avatar
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    1 minute is a fairly low sample size to make large assumptions like str versus dex...

  12. #12
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethix View Post
    1 minute is a fairly low sample size to make large assumptions like str versus dex...
    Feel free to provide another number and I will use it instead
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

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    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethix View Post
    1 minute is a fairly low sample size to make large assumptions like str versus dex...
    preferably one where your attack power changes by exactly 100
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  14. #14
    Plane Walker ethix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talamare View Post
    Feel free to provide another number and I will use it instead
    If only some pro coder could design an equivalent to simcraft for WoW.

    Hell, I'd even take Rawr at this point.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethix View Post
    If only some pro coder could design an equivalent to simcraft for WoW.

    Hell, I'd even take Rawr at this point.
    I know right!

    Someone go tell EJ that WoW sucks, come play Rift
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

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