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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: THE DESTROYER 2

  1. #121
    Champion of Telara Shas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zetsuu View Post
    - In SPITFIRE how do I handle the priority between BS, CS, and RFS?
    like in a situation where RFS is ready but BS and CS arents on?

    - I'm at 8490 CP and went for AP now, do I need to be exactly at 8551 to max DPS?
    1) To be precise, the prioroty is

    CS
    5 combo points
    (Razor Beast sync)
    RFS
    DS
    BS


    Cs+combo points you defenitly want for Rfs, the rest are just filler with maximum benefit during rfs cd.

    Opening with DS or going CS-RFS- default- has little difference on a dummy. Raid cd & debuff timings favor the ds opener tho. (Bofo can handle a dry initial Rfs due to Virulent's nature)

    .. then any DS whenever Rfs is already useable comes down to your judgement on wether the delayed rfs hurts you later on or not. If a target has medium hp and gets attacked by others, taking 3 more gcd's for ds can lead to the target dieing halfway into the channel and 12x800k + early cd > 6x 1.2m. (Tianx prephase mobs etc)
    Spiffy greatly benefits from proper 4:1 Razor Beast sync so that's a unique priority when hunting the big numbers.
    On chaotic encounter with random timings, i recommend Bloodhound, even if don't plan to aoe.
    Spiffy needs you to plan ahead since it's unflexible when surprised by random timings.
    With it, you need to predict on what is going to happen or you fly blindly on luck for 30sec

    1.1 \_(ツ)_/)
    Buffing a Rfs to the max or going for as many as possible comes down on how the fight ends. If the max buffs mean a delay that causes 1 or even 2 less Rfs in the end, it wasn't worth it.
    So buffs such as Bs DS TF need to make up for their time cost of 1.66%/min
    Means their effective damage+ buff contribution needs to at least exceed that to be a worthy gcd on itsself/ Provide the average dps.

    CS literaly doubles the damage of what makes 90% of your damage.
    You can make a difference between CS and the buff Targeting Telemitry.
    -> Since it's the buff you are after, you can dump CS and DS into low piority targets. Unlike most specs, most of your builder are expendable damage wise as long as you get the buff part from them.

    Since CS'es Targeting Telemitry is as important as RFS,

    Here is the leftover priority ranking through some estimation for BS vs DS:

    Bs= +8% for mm, +10%crit (1.2 shots doing 145% damage -> rfs average crit*0.54)
    1.5mil and 1m rfs avg crit

    10% crit @ rfs + 5.568% total dmg (8% @ 71% mm abilities = 5.568%) + 1tick avg Bs dmg/ sec @ 16 ticks*0.944
    540.000 + 83.520 + 453.120 = 1.076.640 ideal average damage /gcd (neglecting non rfs crit boni)

    Dsx5= ca. ~100% rfs /5 = ~20%

    100% crit Rfsx12 to 20% + DS avrg
    12.000.000/ 5 + 240.000= 2.640.000 ideal average damage /gcd
    ________________________________
    DS>dps>BS

    -> Your dps can handle delaying Rfs for DS but not for BS

    This is by no means precise but the difference is vast enough to make a statement.


    2) The stat part

    Taking the info from Aileen's research 2017:

    9075 softcap (with brutal low % per cp point after that)
    3% Combat Sigil
    300 from Curry

    8540 Cp is what you head for as pve-selfbuffed.
    So (8540 - 560) x 1.03 + 300+ 560 = 9079.4 (soultree and syn crystal stat numbers do not count for multiplyer)
    If your guild never uses sigils/ for pvp, just head for 8775

    BEFORE your prebuff softcap, cp has top priority. Once hitting the cap, you get diminishing returns.
    Still, concerning your softcap, being let's say 30/100 over is preferable to being 30/100 under.
    Last edited by Shas; 08-12-2020 at 04:44 PM.
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  2. #122
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    Great builds and awesome write-up. Two questions:

    1. Is Bloodhound better for PVP than 61 MM/ 5 Tact/11 NB: http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...tivities.html? I see pvp mentioned in both write-ups.

    2. Can we increase frequency of HFB If we put EB in DS macro, or does it delay RFS causing a DPS loss?

  3. #123
    Champion of Telara Shas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfbayte View Post
    Great builds and awesome write-up. Two questions:

    1. Is Bloodhound better for PVP than 61 MM/ 5 Tact/11 NB: http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...tivities.html? I see pvp mentioned in both write-ups.

    2. Can we increase frequency of HFB If we put EB in DS macro, or does it delay RFS causing a DPS loss?
    1) Ds has a much shorter range. So while61mm can stay on 35m and spam down priority targets with rfs already criting some 12kx12, destro puts alot more eggs into one basket.
    -> You can absolutely delete someone's hp, but it comes at the cost of a longer preparation, less flexibility, and less options to follow up once you hit him to 10% hp.
    5x DS gives your rfs ca. +100% damage in practise.
    For Solo play and the average pvp pug, being independent, flexible and not having your whole load wasted on one interrupt might be better.
    If you have friends who manage to keep you safe, you can play the role of a sniper indeed.
    https://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#...iw8/wgEEG8|v_s
    DSx5+ CS on some target, (reset combat somehow > Conceal > Dark Malady) > Barbed Shot > Twilight Force > Hellfire Blades > 3 ticks of Strafe > Bull's Eye > Rapid Fire Shot > Planar Variation

    That should do some 350k+ on a unprepared player. Two of them coordinating themselves should be able to snipe a target every 12 seconds.
    It turns into a 'all or nothing' palystyle and it comes down to if you enjoy a volley gun with reload time.
    While it builds on surprise and isn't around since yesterday, capeable players will be able to spot, outmanouver and interrupt it.



    2) Yes, EB reduces the cd of HFB.

    pvp; EB is a little more complicated to evaluate. It's worth can only be measured after the fight, based on how more of something it made possible.
    sync > cd reduction spam.
    If your EB ment no additional RFS and little extra HFB ticks, a raw buff like BS might have been better in it's place.

    Between two RFs, you have place for 7 builder attacks while 8-9 potential builder fighting over the gcd. EB without a clear plan in mind has a very low priority and also takes 2 spots at once.

    The cd reduction of EB for HFB can help, but it is not enough to make up for bad timing in the first place. (Say you use maximum HFB and EB on Titanx pretrash, but when the big blob spawns and your omnox pops, HFB is on 10 sec cd) In order to get the maximum out of EB, it is better handled as part of a strategy.

    It's surprisingly hard to nail down. You could say that Torrent and EB gives you a unique set of tools which become less straight forward, the more you want to get out of them. Easy to learn, challenging to master.
    They can help you being better prepared for the unpredictable, but if you can predict, you need to find a better use for them.


    //To 4 Tact in pvp, Your Eternal makes you able to speedrun Major rifts with the tactican healing- it will however do very little in pvp and can barely be called selfheal there.

    Silver Tip, Vampiric, and HFB torrent alrady is a underrated oppresion unit for smaller- and larger blob fights.
    For st focused hunts, EB will feel more impactful in pvp than it is and you are better off with Razor Beast or utility like Shadow Lash, Flashbang, Shadow Shift etc.


    This gives a good impression on 61, base Rfs and hfb damage and the value of max range
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73g5lONxgR0

    __________________________________________________ _________
    To my extensive answers:
    As long as i don't know the people asking, i rather give more info to pick from what's needet and share my thoughts than cutting it too short to be helpful.
    Last edited by Shas; 08-08-2020 at 02:25 PM.
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    State of Sloth is foremost a slow effect which then gets upgradet into a additional dmg taken effect.
    This leaves the dmg taken effect bound to the success and uptime of the slow effect.
    Bosses usually are immune to slow/ movement impaling effects and thus the dmg taken debuff will not affect most Bosses. (not: Azranel and Beligosh, Players, Worldmobs)
    Because Twilight Force is not in the ST rotation on Raids, we could take points away from that and Advanced State of Sloth and put them into Blazing Fury for a 4% increase on builders (DS, CS, BS). That may not seem like much, but in a DPS race like Isiel and Titan X, it should make a difference.

    https://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#.../wmy4la%7CX_Xw

    Also, for those who do not use Ebon Fury (usually only after Nec Torrent eats your energy) or Dark Malady (for popping out of stealth in a DRR to boost damage by 20% for 8 secs on next boss) we could put those points into Ionization for a 4% increase on non-physical attacks (DS, PV, NT). This would help in AOE (trash) and ST (boss).

    https://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#.../wmy4a8%7CX_Xw.

    Regardless, those two changes should add 8% total increase on DS damage.

    It is unclear whether the increase from Ionization applies to HFB (fire damage). Can you confirm if HBF an "attack" for Ionization purposes? If so, this would be a significant DPS gain on ST fights.

    Thanks

  5. #125
    Champion of Telara Shas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfbayte View Post
    Because Twilight Force is not in the ST rotation on Raids, we could take points away from that and Advanced State of Sloth and put them into Blazing Fury for a 4% increase on builders (DS, CS, BS). That may not seem like much, but in a DPS race like Isiel and Titan X, it should make a difference.

    https://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#.../wmy4la%7CX_Xw

    Also, for those who do not use Ebon Fury (usually only after Nec Torrent eats your energy) or Dark Malady (for popping out of stealth in a DRR to boost damage by 20% for 8 secs on next boss) we could put those points into Ionization for a 4% increase on non-physical attacks (DS, PV, NT). This would help in AOE (trash) and ST (boss).

    https://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#.../wmy4a8%7CX_Xw.
    Hey, absolutely go for it.

    Know that 4% builder damage ends up as ca. 1% effective builder damage. And as you pop DS CS etc into isiel shields and Azranel spins, it may end up as a 0.05% gain.

    What you describe are exactly the first versions early 2019. Over time, builder focus has prooven super neglectable, Marksman shoot to kill became one of the first unlocks to drop and the unlocked Utility gives far more to play with.
    In some 30 pulls vs 30 pulls, the missing % from builder damage was not noticeable. Missing the unlocked utilities however, was.


    - TF is infact part of any st dps on Azranel and Beligosh (one rogue at a time only, turning Spitfire into Slothfire) and takes the 2 points off builder damage
    - Ebon Fury comes at hand to not drop the Eternal when using 5x DS back-to back. It's very handy doing the bloodhound opener with it on Vindicator. Not getting energy from Boundles Energy and dropping Eternal on the opener RFs loses just as much damage as the one point could make up for somewhere else.
    Drioping the eternal means ca. 50k off a 1mil RFS crit.
    - I personaly would miss my Dark Malady. It's one of the few joys i have here atm. It allows you to finish a raidrift with 2m- 3m average dps which speeds up the process by alot.
    It indeed takes a 25th point in Nightblade with the alternatives being:
    + 2% nonphys minus 0.25% dmg in Tactican (costing your rfs damage to spend points into Tactican)
    + Guardet Departure or other utility in MM
    + Builder damage in Nightblade which you mentioned. (Builder make up for less than 8% of your damage, so it's 2% from 8%)
    Spitfire runs the extra point in Ranger for +1% crit

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfbayte View Post
    Regardless, those two changes should add 8% total increase on DS damage.
    On isiel, st only second phase, my DS dps share is 3.45%

    Make those 8% of 3.45%
    0,276% effective dps gain through DS
    on 1.796.366 dps that's + 4.957,97 dps

    -> If you want to pull together every possible % and can make it work. Ofcourse go for it i love to see it.
    I would Drop Malady for 2.5k gain- but not in a random pug.

    My current ~2.15m Azranel, 1.796m Commadner and 2.1m Titan mainly are the results of timing and a little luck with timings.
    Droping options/ utiliy to queeze out 0.5%damage through gear/ build is a painful process and well within rng fluctuation of timing/ crits etc. If you feel sweaty and want to get all % possible, i highly encourage you to do so.
    +10% crit for DS from Primal Death should be > 4% DS damage.



    The very early versions went a similar path- but how they are now is the result of over a year of intensive use.


    Timing plays such a massive role, that even something stupid as Guarded Departure with it's tiny shield allows for better positioning, which can result in more damage in the end.

    You want to use Bloodhound in tdem/ tdnm for the aoe? Well lucky you, Beligosh takes Twilight Force. win win

    -> Drop Malady if you want, Spiffy and BBq both have that 1 flex point you can swich as you like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfbayte View Post
    It is unclear whether the increase from Ionization applies to HFB (fire damage). Can you confirm if HBF an "attack" for Ionization purposes? If so, this would be a significant DPS gain on ST fights.
    Hellfire Blades still counts as a *weapon enchant buff*, ignores the Eternal Weapon bonus and can not procc the usual attack proccs. It mainly scales off your Weapon damage.
    A compareable buffs is Riftblade Storm Blade

    HFB will most likely not get affected by it.

    You can test it by going 8 Nightblade, 5 Tactican into Metal Plating.

    Then remove any proccs and variables such as Omnox, syn crystal etc.

    Pump some HFB with torrent

    Redo the build with 8 NB and 5 Ionisation this time. Repeat the process and see if the AVERAGE hit of leg HFB changes.


    If you want maximum aoe with Bloodhound, you swich the 64 Mastery from Through the Ether to Even Strikes as only it affects HFB (which is what the sub name BBq was supposed to indicate- but nobody really goes that extra step)
    Last edited by Shas; 08-21-2020 at 11:01 AM.
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  6. #126
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    Thank you for this. Very helpful explanation re the math and the flex point can suit gameplay. One question re the rotation on bosses like Azranel. Where does TF fit in the Bloodhound rotation:

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    TF is infact part of any st dps on Azranel and Beligosh (one rogue at a time only, turning Spitfire into Slothfire) and takes the 2 points off builder damage
    Are we still snapshotting TT with EB so as to not delay RFS, repeating something like the following:

    DS x 5 TF BS CS HFB (BE) RFS (PV).

    Or a hybrid?

    Thanks again!

  7. #127
    Champion of Telara Shas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfbayte View Post
    Where does TF fit in the Bloodhound rotation:
    Never used TT with Bloodhound on Azranel. Actually didn't use Bloodhound on Azranel since March 2019 or so. It's inferior enough in raw st dps to spiff.

    So taking the Rogue spot for TT while playing Eb is kind of paradox?

    On Beligosh it doesn't matter much.

    Priority of the builder still is

    CS > DS > BS > TF/EB > LF

    Eb kills 1.5 sec / 3 gcd's off a 12 second cooldown. Witch can mean pretty much the same as the 7.5% that TF provides. Bloodhound ST can be packed extremely tight, barely leaving room for even BS.

    If you happen to delay a second for Omnox, Wild Storms or due to spin, Just slap it infront of Rfs like on spiffco.
    Squeezing RFS cds for more hits/ mins or giving each RFs the maximum buff is quite the opposite approach.

    I will rethink TF in Bh
    Last edited by Shas; 12-25-2020 at 10:20 AM.
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  8. #128
    Soulwalker
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    Default legendaries on rocket?

    What legendaries should I use on AOE Rocket?

  9. #129
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    AOE Rocket? You mean the spec listed in the OP with pictures and stuff?
    Quote Originally Posted by AnneBonny View Post
    We still want to give you a small hint: communication, support and entertainment are our three main concerns and you can count on some changes and improvements in this direction.
    We are all gamers and we understand how important transparency and open-mindedness are
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  10. #130
    Champion of Telara Shas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIBSONG View Post
    What legendaries should I use on AOE Rocket?
    Just saw i had the wrong picture for V2 after rearranging some things. Good heads up.

    Addet the Legendaries as text.

    @Ambrodel ;P
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  11. #131
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    Shame that this spec is top 1 while it's difficulty is 0/10 compared to any other spec in the game including inquisitor. It's CP scaling is unique and insanely high. "Bull's Eye" looks really unnecessary for MM soul since it's already high crit, i'm not sure why devs didn't fix this monster, especially "Full Metal Jacket" talent. As low tier it should be ~5% crit but not 10%. This will deduce bis dps from ~2.1m to ~2.0 and will affect mostly MM because it's heavily finisher related.
    Last edited by ThreadSafe; 02-08-2021 at 01:46 PM.
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  12. #132
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    Hi,

    i just returned to rift. Still love the game after plenty of Years. Played in de vanilla, chocolate times 2011-2013.

    Is this Spec still No. 1 ST spec or are there any changes meanwhile?

    Thx for support and, like pvp in 2012 at Brutwacht sounded: FOCUS VOLVARIC!
    Last edited by Epicbard; 02-09-2021 at 01:05 AM.

  13. #133
    Champion of Telara Shas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicbard View Post
    Hi,

    i just returned to rift. Still love the game after plenty of Years. Played in de vanilla, chocolate times 2011-2013.

    Is this Spec still No. 1 ST spec or are there any changes meanwhile?

    Thx for support and, like pvp in 2012 at Brutwacht sounded: FOCUS VOLVARIC!
    Hey man,

    yes this is pretty much your collelction of swiss knifes for everything damage related on lvl 70+

    Some people successfully use it in pvp with more cc unlocked - though the basic versions are foremost designed to dominate or "carry" pve.

    https://top.prancingturtle.com/index.html

    Have fun and feel free to point out anything that is unclear.
    Last edited by Shas; 02-09-2021 at 02:50 AM.
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