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Thread: [4.1] 61 Nightblade

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default [4.1] 61 Nightblade

    Updated to new spec on June 19

    Now that Nightblade has been buffed with last patch I thought it was time for a guide for it. Thanks to Kuan for showing me this version of the spec that does better dps than the original specs I posted here.

    The spec:
    Spoiler!

    If you have someone in the raid providing 5% energy reduction choose Energy Manipulation instead of Planar Conservation.

    Buffs:
    - Ebon Blades
    - Smoldering Blades
    - Predatory Instincts
    - Planar Conservation (if nobody in raid provides 5% energy reduction)

    Alternative spending of points:

    - 15 BD 0 Ra (old guide). Less dps, but with an interrupt. There is a guide for it at the bottom of this guide.

    - 11 Sab 4 Ra (no reason to use atm). Less dps, around the same as 15 BD 0 Ra, but if you just cannot get enough of bombs this is for you. There is a guide for it at the bottom of this guide.

    - 15 BD 0 Ra (pvp), but with 1 point in Sprint, and Legendary Flame Blitz instead of Legendary Dusk Strike. This is nice for pvp since there is rarely time to build up Emptiness stacks with Dusk Strike and Legendary Flame Blitz will apply 5 stacks of Fiery Spike first time you attack with it (including 5 procs and following self-buffs).

    - 14 Sin 1 Ra (pvp), and also with Legendary Flame Blitz instead of Legendary Dusk Strike. Just so you can move faster around in stealth and take 15% less damage and deal 15% more damage for 15 sec after attacking from stealth.

    - 2 Bard 13 Ra (pvp), use Coda of Wrath as finisher, and you don't need worry to about Fiery Spike on your target.

    - 12 MM 3 Ra (immobile super crits), use Legendary Deadeye Shot as finisher. Replace Legendary Hellfire Blades with Legendary Fiery Spikes, and keep up 3 stacks of Legendary Fiery Spikes for 24% increased physical damage.

    Abilities:

    Spoiler!


    Macros:

    Builder:
    Spoiler!


    Finisher:
    Spoiler!


    SoD (30 sec cd 1):
    - DftS is in there so the Fiery Spike stacks won't be lost.
    - Ebon Fury is not in the macro to avoid going below 50 energy and loose eternal weapon stacks before using Scourge of Darkness.
    - Satchel Charge is in start of the macro to consume and benefit from Emptiness stacks, instead of them being wasted on and not benefiting Scourge of Darkness.
    - Put a long living target on focus so Satchel Charge will be used on that.
    - It's also an option to put Satchel Charge in the DD and LF macro instead so it benefits from one of the DD stacks and Emptiness stacks. Thus it can deal up to 7% of total dps, but in total it seems to be a dps loss since it will give 1-2 less ticks of Hellfire Blades and waste 4 CP.
    Spoiler!


    DD (30 sec cd 2):
    - You could abandon this macro and only use the LF macro, but then you loose the choice of when to use the 1 min cds that you sometimes want to save for adds.
    Spoiler!


    LF (1 min cd):
    - Should be used instead of the DD macro every 1 min, unless it needs to be saved for a burst phase or add phase.
    Spoiler!


    AoE builder:
    - Weapon Flare could also be used instead of Dusk Strike if there are 5 mobs or more. But normally it's better to just focus on the high health mobs and stick with Dusk Strike since it also buffs Flame Blitz.
    Spoiler!


    Rotation:
    Essentials:
    - Don't delay the cooldowns too much.
    - Don't use Scourge of Darkness when Dark Descent stacks are up.
    - First use Dark Descent once you have 5 stacks of Emptiness (just use Dusk Strikes to reach the 5 stacks, even if you are already at 5 CP).
    - If swapping targets make sure the new target has Fiery Spike on it before using finishers.

    Normal rotation:
    This is simple:

    Builders until 5 CP -> Finisher

    30 sec cooldown block:
    The cooldown block should be delayed as little as possible. You can start this cooldown block when you have 5 CP (can also start at 3 or 4 CP if you think more builders will make you go too low on energy and loose eternal stacks). Normally the Living Flame should be used when ready, unless saving it for a burst phase or add phase.

    When using Living Flame:
    Spam SoD macro until 5 stacks of Emptiness (use Ebon Fury after Scourge of Darkness has been used) -> Spam LF macro until down to 1 CP -> Normal rotation

    When not using Living Flame:
    Spam SoD macro until 5 stacks of Emptiness -> Spam DD macro until down to 1 CP -> Normal rotation

    Opener:
    Dark Malady -> Builder x2 -> 30 sec cooldown block

    - It is possible to use Scourge of Darkness before the fight starts and thus get a few extra hits with that. This is because the stacks last 60 sec and it only has 30 sec cd. But better be sure it's off cooldown when the fight starts or the rotation may be screwed from the beginning.

    AoE:
    Almost same as single-target, just replace finisher macro with Flame Blitz, and replace builder macro with AoE builder macro, and use Flame Blitz whenever at 5 CP.

    Ranged:
    - Most abilities has a range of 20 m.
    - Same rotation as in melee, except don't use LF macro at range since Living Flame only has a radius of around 9 m.
    - For this reason ranged dps of this spec is also very strong. Only other downside is that Flame Thrust does a little less damage than Blazing Strike.

    Energy Starvation:
    You will probably experience falling below 50 energy sometimes during this rotation and thus loose eternal weapon stacks. But it is not that big a disaster since Hellfire Blades, Fiery Spike, Smoldering Blades, and Ebon Blades are all not affected by loosing the eternal weapon buff. It's only a big issue if being starved when using Scourge of Darkness (but no Dusk Strike spam right before using this so it shouldn't happen) or Touch of Darkness (using Ebon Fury in same cooldown block as this so also shouldn't happen).

    Kalerts:
    Spoiler!


    Stats:
    CP essences are best, at least if well geared. If not so well geared AP essences might be better.

    Parses:
    All parses are done with the 4% damage buff from eternal weapon and using Reliquary of Rage twice.

    Spoiler!


    NB with interrupt (15 BD 0 Ra):
    - This is largely a copy of the main guide, but with a little different macros, and a little different rotation.
    - Less dps than 11 Ra 4 Sab, but it has an interrupt.

    Spoiler!


    NB for bomb aficionados (11 Sab 4 Ra):
    - This is largely a copy of the main guide, but with a little different macros, and a little different rotation.
    - Less dps than 11 Ra 4 Sab, around same dps as 15 BD 0 Ra.
    - No reason to play this atm, except if you just love bombs (but then there is the 3-button 54 NB/22 Sab for that).
    - No interrupt.

    Spoiler!
    Last edited by Flinti; 04-25-2018 at 12:27 AM. Reason: making images work again
    Flinti@Gelidra

  2. #2
    Plane Touched Kreezhem's Avatar
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    Awesome guide thanks !

    I'm just left with three questions.

    Firstly it seems the spec heavily depends on the 5 emptiness stacks. So compared to the sin, on fight with disconnects it might be not as effective, right?

    The sin variant makes you lose the interrupt, is there any other advantages than having a 1-2% damage boost to compensate this ?

    It seems like on target swap you just need To apply fiery spike once and then continue the rotation you were doing. Right ?


    Also a more technical question, one beruast the fire dude of rotp. When the add spawn if your aoe spells hitbox wide enough to hit the boss and the add ? Or it's simply better to go full st on add. And use one firery spike/ranged finisher on boss to avoid it to fade.



    The time to throw fire everywhere has come.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreezhem View Post
    Firstly it seems the spec heavily depends on the 5 emptiness stacks. So compared to the sin, on fight with disconnects it might be not as effective, right?
    It actually doesn't suffer much from disconnects, since the legendary version of Dusk Strike has 20m range. The only downsides from being at range is that you cannot use Deadly Strike which will probably also result in more energy starvation, and of course Flame Thrust hits for a bit less than Blazing Strike. Also needs to be pretty close for Living Flame to affect the enemies. But other than that it still works very well at range. When I have time I will make a ranged parse and add it in the guide, and also add notes on disconnects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreezhem View Post
    The sin variant makes you lose the interrupt, is there any other advantages than having a 1-2% damage boost to compensate this ?
    I assume you mean the Sab variant. Firstly I'm not sure if NB/Sab is a slight dps boost or not, the parses simply vary too much to say, but on average they are even for me (remember to add 9% dps to Blazing Strike and Dusk Strike). This might change once we have final eternal weapon upgrade. I would suggest people try out both though and see what works best for them, or simply what they best like.

    Of advantages NB/Sab has:
    - it can attack from up to 30m with bombs
    - it handles disconnects a bit better since there are no pure melee abilities at all except for Blazing Strike (so also less risk of energy starvation)
    - legendary Satchel Charge will keep ticking if you have to hide (like in last boss of iRotP)
    - it has a little more AoE, but at the same time a little less single-target damage in cleave situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreezhem View Post
    It seems like on target swap you just need To apply fiery spike once and then continue the rotation you were doing. Right ?
    That is right. And if Death from the Shadows is off cd then you can just use that to apply fiery spike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreezhem View Post
    Also a more technical question, one beruast the fire dude of rotp. When the add spawn if your aoe spells hitbox wide enough to hit the boss and the add ? Or it's simply better to go full st on add. And use one firery spike/ranged finisher on boss to avoid it to fade.
    Unfortunately I don't know, simply because I haven't tried the spec yet on that boss
    Last edited by Flinti; 06-07-2017 at 01:48 AM.
    Flinti@Gelidra

  4. #4
    Ascendant
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    Finally a spec that plays like a rogue again (this and deadeye MM).

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple
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    A Mage or Cleric with much much better stats will not reach the damage. Even if you play w/o makros.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sing View Post
    A Mage or Cleric with much much better stats will not reach the damage. Even if you play w/o makros.
    K... Not really relevant...

    Anyway, awesome guide Flinti
    Last edited by Artewig; 06-07-2017 at 03:17 AM.
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  7. #7
    Plane Touched Kreezhem's Avatar
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    Thanks For The clear answers ! I'll send you all my dimensions items to demonstrate my gratitude.

    I definitely agree with FateStayNight, rogue feels like rogue again. Yuuuuuuuuus

    Sing
    A Mage or Cleric with much much better stats will not reach the damage. Even if you play w/o makros.
    Even if its not the topic for it I'd like to give you my thoughts about this.
    For cleric, there is no questions, yes it's bad right now and you won't get close to that dps.
    For mage I disagree. First you need To know that Flinti here used the weapon 4% damage buff on parses. That's around 30k. In raid everyone have it, even mages. Also I feel like mage isare particularly strong on ROTP right now.
    First they can easily parse higher than rogues with their mark of blade thing on the first and second boss.
    Second, on the last boss not everyone can play melee. Some people have to stay range, I believe we agree that pyro»MM.

    Dummy dps is a thing. But in raid conditions things changes.

    One last thing. Playing without macro doesn't necessarily means you have higher dps. Macro can sometime bring you higher dps allowing you to instantly use higher priority spells / ogcd spells, casting spells without changing target

  8. #8
    Plane Walker Poshy's Avatar
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    how does this compare with Sin in regards to dps?

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    Rift Disciple Semiso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poshy View Post
    how does this compare with Sin in regards to dps?
    He posted the parses in his Parse section

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    Thanks for the positive response I also like to have a more classic rogue style spec/rotation being viable again.

    I updated the guide to include advantages of NB/Sab over normal NB. Also included notes and parses of ranged dps.

    And yes, as the parses show it is doing higher dps than SinSab in long fights. For short fights Poison Malice will probably still make SinSab do more dps though. If the raid is missing the 5% crit debuff SinSab would probably also be preferred.
    Flinti@Gelidra

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Kreezhem's Avatar
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    Flinti, I'm sorry To assault you with questions. But seeing your ranged parse makes me wondering. What's the difference between MM and NB sab ranged ?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreezhem View Post
    Flinti, I'm sorry To assault you with questions. But seeing your ranged parse makes me wondering. What's the difference between MM and NB sab ranged ?
    you know you can make the builds and go stand in front of a practice dummy yourself right?

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Kreezhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neurotix View Post
    you know you can make the builds and go stand in front of a practice dummy yourself right?


    To get the exact difference between each specs I will have to redo all parses because gear gap.
    Also parses with eternal are more interesting than without, I still got to finish my farm on it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreezhem View Post
    Flinti, I'm sorry To assault you with questions. But seeing your ranged parse makes me wondering. What's the difference between MM and NB sab ranged ?
    I may not be the best to compare with MM since I'm pretty rusty with that because I never use it :P

    But after some tries this is the best I could come up with on MM which is somewhat lower than NB/Sab:



    I wanted to add it in guide also, but now I know there is a max of 10 images.

    It is also a big part physical damage so it drags down a bit, but on the other hand it will benefit a lot from the extra crit chance in raid.
    Flinti@Gelidra

  15. #15
    Plane Touched Kreezhem's Avatar
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    I guess MM is only good for purges then ;), one spec to rule them all.

    Btw i tried on low CP / no eternal weapon, Sin is still better for low gear.

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