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Thread: 41tact/35mm guide - Cuz peoples be askin for it

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    Rift Master McWaffles's Avatar
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    Default 41tact/35mm guide - Cuz peoples be askin for it

    The Build:
    41tactician/35marksman/0assassin



    The Abilities/Legend:

    Damage/Builders:
    GT - Glacial Torrent - Damaging AoE ability; Adds 1 stack of Temperature Inversion to each enemy hit per tick, causing 10% more damage from infernal torrent per stack (more on this later)
    IT - Infernal Torrent - Damaging AoE ability; adds 1 stack of Internal Combustion per tic (DoT ticks); Removes 1 stack of Temperature Inversion per tic (more on this later)
    EB - Empyrean Bolt - Standard builder
    NB - Necrotic Bolt - High damage aoe ability to all enemies between you and target of this ability; ; Has no CD if used on a target sub 30% health; 10s CD
    IB - Infernal Beam - High damage over 15s to all enemies between you and the target of this ability; 15s CD

    Finishers:
    ER - Empyrean Ray - High damage 1.5s cast finisher
    CBl - Curative Blast - Small HoT on 10 raid members
    TP - Torrent Primer - 30s buff to torrent damage by 8% per combo point used; Removes 5 stacks of Torrent Overload

    Others/Combat Buffs/Utility:
    CC - Curative Core - Small HoT for 15s to all nearbye allies
    PC - Power Core - 10% damage buff to entire raid for 15s; 1min CD
    NC - Necrotic Core - Small DoT for 15s to all nearbye enemies
    OtD - On the Double - 50% personal movement speed buff for 5s; 30s CD
    Deaden - Ranged interrupt with 5s silence on successful interrupt; 15s CD
    CR - Curative Remote - Small heal each time any ally strikes an enemy with this applied to them
    Barrier Remote - 20% of your maximum health as a personal absorb shield; 1min CD
    BR - Battle Remote - 20% bonus damage for 10s; 1min CD

    Passive Buffs:
    Restorative Engine - Small heal to 10 raid members on use of Empyrean Bolt
    Curative Engine - Small heal to self upon taking damage
    Necrotic Engine - Lowers torrent damage by 30%; Increases bolt and ray damage by 30%
    Virulent Poison - 20% chance to proc a small amount of damage on targets hit by abilities; Does not proc from torrents
    EM - Electrified Munitions - Small damage to enemies hit by damaging ranged abilities; Does not proc from torrents



    Macros:

    Builder with stopcasting to end unwanted over-channeling of torrents
    #show Empyrean Bolt
    stopcasting
    cast empyrean bolt

    Power Core bound with Battle Remote for optimal use of stacking damage buffs
    #show Power Core
    cast Power Core
    cast battle remote
    y I'VE GOT THE POWER! (10% bonus raid damage for 15s)



    Rotations:

    There are 3 ways to play this spec, 1 is easy, 1 is very easy, and 1 is a little bit harder and I don't want to spend additional time going over (you can PM me on these forums or contact me in game if you actually want to do this to exacting perfection).

    Personal Buffs:
    Virulent Poison
    Electrified Munitions
    Restorative Engine


    Very Easy Method (rotation)

    Starting Combat:
    (If starting at 5 combo points) CC -> TP -> GT full channel to 7 stack Temperature Inversion -> IT -> IB -> GT -> IT -> EB -> TP -> GT -> IT -> Core -> GT -> IT -> EB -> ER -> NB
    (If starting at no combo points) Before the tank pulls, channel 4 torrents off in a random direction to start at a 4stack of Expanded Torrents: EB -> CC -> TP -> GT full channel to 7 stack Temperature Inversion -> IT -> IB -> GT -> IT -> EB -> ER -> GT -> IT -> Core -> GT -> IT -> EB -> ER -> NB

    Standard Rotation for 100%-31% Enemy HP
    Block 1: [GT -> IT -> IB -> GT -> IT -> EB -> TP ]
    Block 2: [GT -> IT -> (PC>CC) -> GT -> IT -> EB -> ER -> NB]

    This rotation lasts 15.5s and you lose .5s of uptime from Cores and Infernal Torrent.

    If you have GCD loss due to lag or are familiarizing yourself with this spec remove Necrotic Bolt from the end of Block 2 and start back at Block 1 after Empyrean Ray.

    By spacing your infernal beam and cores between torrents you provide a small amount of time of energy regen between torrent pairs and prevent stacks of Internal Combustion from falling off the enemy(s) by preventing ever having EB -> ER -> IB -> Core -> GT ->lost gcd(s) from movement/lag/badness causing more than 6s between IT's

    To simplify things to binds, I will provide example binds and the rotation numerically:
    GT = 1
    IT = 2
    EB = 3
    TP = 4
    IB = 5
    ER = 6
    PC = 7
    CC = 8
    NB = 9

    With this set-up, the rotation becomes [1,2,5,1,2,3,4], [1,2,(7>8),1,2,3,6,9]

    For AoE dps replace Empyrean Ray with Torrent primer in Block 2 and be sure to target the target farthest away from you, and position yourself so that the rest of the enemies are between you and that target.

    Rotation for 30%-0% Enemy HP
    1) Turn on Necrotic Engine
    2) Spam Necrotic bolt, use Infernal Beam on cooldown
    3) Every 30s use EB -> CB to maintain Primer Amplification
    4) Use PC/BR on CD
    5) #winning


    Easy Method (priority)

    Priority for 100%-31%
    ( PC/BR > CC)
    \/
    IB
    \/
    (at 5CP's) TP (If buff is missing or energy starved)
    \/
    (at 5CP's) ER
    \/
    (at 4stack Expanded Torrents) EB
    \/
    GT (If Temperature Inversion is at 4 or less stacks)
    \/
    IT

    Rotation for 30%-0% Enemy HP
    1) Turn on Necrotic Engine
    2) Spam Necrotic bolt, use Infernal Beam on cooldown
    3) every 30s use EB -> CB to maintain Primer Amplification
    4) Use PC/BR on CD
    5) #winning

    Notes:
    -DO NOT let Internal Combustion or Temperature Inversion fall off your targets.
    -Attempt to align your first power core with Flaring Power, etc., or make sure to know where you are in a PC rotation if your guild uses other raid members in tactician specs (only 4 should be in the rotation).
    -Generally, on a single target fight with no loss of gcd's, you will use Empyrean Ray TWICE as your finisher between Torrent Primers.
    -If your raid does not have a tactard and you are light on AoE heals or there is an AoE spike incoming, use Curative Remote to provide additional healing to the derpy deeps and replace Curative Core with Necrotic Core (Curative Remote will provide Conservation of Energy ticks practically on it's ICD for healing).
    -Do not use barrier remote or OtD on CD unless necessary to survive; it's a waste of energy.
    -You should NOT be interrupting; make those lazy *** tanks or warriors do it.
    -The reason for use of Curative Core over Necrotic Core is that healing and damage have separate ICD's on Conservation of energy, thus providing a greater net income of energy and less starvation by using Curative Core.
    -You do not use Rending Munitions because you do not use a single physical ability.
    -This spec is very good for solo'ing as well, just use curative engine over restorative



    Applicable Raid Fights:

    These are the raid fights that this spec shines on:

    FT:
    Gelidra - Obliterates the adds and does reasonable ST dps with minimal target swap penalties.
    2-tank Twins - Being able to bring the full force of your ST dps down on both bosses makes this spec nearly unbeatable in dps on this fight if 2-tanking.
    Crucia - While you do not want every rogue running this spec on Crucia, it provides additional power cores for raid dps boosts as well as having range, minimal target swap issues, and incredible sub 30% ST dps for the annoying phase.

    EE:
    Progenitor - It's always good to hit numerous targets at a time. Depending on raid positioning, you may be capable of doing this to hit both the current target and the shielded target as well as cleaving both the last mini and Saetos himself at the end
    Matriarch - The adds melt in the wake of a party of rogues creating a single directed super torrent, plus moar power cores!

    TDQ:
    Jultharin - Why swap off the boss when you can continue to dps him while killing the wisps?

    I would personally use NB/sin or 61sin on every fight not mentioned, just as I feel there are no applicable raid fights where 61MM or 61rgr will outshine a different rogue spec.

    If you are looking for guides on those 2 specs, they have been provided in this same section of the forums by Mayi (for nb/sin) and Orangu (for 61sin), and I would suggest having those specs.



    Final Notes:

    Tada, there it is. A guide I didn't want to write and spent too much time doing so. If you legitimately are interested in min/maxxing the Single Target DPS of this spec, you can contact me on these forums or in game. When properly done, it's ST is competitive with/above that of 61MM but with the raid benefit of Power Core. Please, before contacting me, make sure you have a raid 4 piece and are familiar enough with using the specs in raid situations that you are capable of executing fights without losing target on torrents due to movement. I feel this is a mandatory spec for all raiding rogues to carry, as it is THAT GOOD.

    As per norm, constructive criticism and healthy feedback are appreciated.
    "You're just realizing the fault of your species, human beings are the most untrustworthy, backstabbing creatures on this planet. Except for bears."

  2. #2
    Rift Master McWaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McWaffles View Post
    GT - Glacial Torrent - Damaging AoE ability; Adds 1 stack of Temperature Inversion to each enemy hit per tick, causing 10% more damage from infernal torrent per stack (more on this later)
    IT - Infernal Torrent - Damaging AoE ability; adds 1 stack of Internal Combustion per tic (DoT ticks); Removes 1 stack of Temperature Inversion per tic (more on this later)
    I totally derped and didn't ellaborate upon this. By allowing Glacial Torrent to stack Temperature Inversion to 7 stacks, you successively have a 70%/60%/50% bonus to Infernal Torrent, which is then clipped at the GCD. Glacial Torrent will then refresh the stacks back to 7, and these same high bonuses will be applied to the next Infernal Torrent. Without clipping, infernal would get 70/60/50/40/30/20/10%, then you have no stacks and need to completely refresh them.

    This is one of 2 reasons for clipping your torrents at your GCD (with the exception of building to 7stack Temp Inversion at start or if it drops due to mechanics or badness).

    The other reason for clipping the torrents is that you get more ticks in the same overall time frame.

    Torrents tick initially and once every half second after, so by clipping your GCD's at 1s, you effectively get 3 tics in 1s rather than 7 tics over 3seconds (tics at 0s, .5s, 1s, 1.5s, 2s, 2.5s, 3s), as well as having a higher %damage bonus to more tics of Infernal Torrent.

    Quote Originally Posted by McWaffles View Post
    Very Easy Method (rotation)

    Starting Combat:
    (If starting at 5 combo points) CC -> TP -> GT full channel to 7 stack Temperature Inversion -> IT -> IB -> GT -> IT -> EB -> TP -> GT -> IT -> Core -> GT -> IT -> EB -> ER -> NB
    (If starting at no combo points) Before the tank pulls, channel 4 torrents off in a random direction to start at a 4stack of Expanded Torrents: EB -> CC -> TP -> GT full channel to 7 stack Temperature Inversion -> IT -> IB -> GT -> IT -> EB -> ER -> GT -> IT -> Core -> GT -> IT -> EB -> ER -> NB

    Standard Rotation for 100%-31% Enemy HP
    Block 1: [GT -> IT -> IB -> GT -> IT -> EB -> TP ]
    Block 2: [GT -> IT -> (PC>CC) -> GT -> IT -> EB -> ER -> NB]
    For this rotation, EVERY GT and IT except the initial one are clipped at the 1s GCD. I feel that this should be clear now.
    Last edited by McWaffles; 03-01-2013 at 04:12 AM.
    "You're just realizing the fault of your species, human beings are the most untrustworthy, backstabbing creatures on this planet. Except for bears."

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara
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    Thanks for consolidating the other threads. I would just suggest that you add kalert code for peeps

    My version of this does not have a zero sin, but a zero rs. I feel naked without being able to blink out of crap How much DPS is Virulent Poison adding for you?

  4. #4
    Rift Master McWaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daayou View Post
    Thanks for consolidating the other threads. I would just suggest that you add kalert code for peeps

    My version of this does not have a zero sin, but a zero rs. I feel naked without being able to blink out of crap How much DPS is Virulent Poison adding for you?
    0 sin isn't even noticeable til sub 30%, at which point it's a few hundred dps. Also, I do not use karuul alert for any spec, so have no code to provide.
    "You're just realizing the fault of your species, human beings are the most untrustworthy, backstabbing creatures on this planet. Except for bears."

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by McWaffles View Post
    For AoE dps replace Empyrean Ray with Torrent primer in Block 2 and be sure to target the target farthest away from you, and position yourself so that the rest of the enemies are between you and that target.
    Sounds very weird, why not using Necrotic Ray instead if you are fine with energy and adds are close enough to the main target? Does this mean you still have energy troubles (not really mentioned in the guide)? Or probably the aoe part from "easy" section is missed?

    In my case I am constantly starved so much that I never use other finishers other than Torrent Primer, and still sometimes I have to stop and regen. That is while maintaining 3/4 uptime of curative core and with restorative engine up.

    Quote Originally Posted by McWaffles View Post
    There are 3 ways to play this spec, 1 is easy, 1 is very easy, and 1 is a little bit harder and I don't want to spend additional time going over (you can PM me on these forums or contact me in game if you actually want to do this to exacting perfection).
    Would be well appreciated if you find the time and put this remaining thoughts here as well.

  6. #6
    Rift Master McWaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyrsquir View Post
    Sounds very weird, why not using Necrotic Ray instead if you are fine with energy and adds are close enough to the main target? Does this mean you still have energy troubles (not really mentioned in the guide)? Or probably the aoe part from "easy" section is missed?

    In my case I am constantly starved so much that I never use other finishers other than Torrent Primer, and still sometimes I have to stop and regen. That is while maintaining 3/4 uptime of curative core and with restorative engine up.


    Would be well appreciated if you find the time and put this remaining thoughts here as well.
    Necrotic Ray is not taken in the spec, and it's damage is far too low to warrant the half second gcd loss from the cast that could be used for additional torrents.

    If you are not in a raid setting where there are extra player to heal for more chances at heal crits for CoE procs and do not have LE/ferv, you will ALWAYS be starved to the extreme. Unless you desperately need the healing, for solo'ing and small group situations use necrotic core over curative core. This makes this spec nigh impossible to practice on a dummy with a proper rotation.

    In terms of AoE rot, your single target and aoe are the same with the exception of all finishers being torrent primer because rays use an extra .5s to cast and do less damage overall than the extra half gcd gives toward additional torrent use. If you find yourself with extra energy (not starving) while doing aoe dps, you can rotate to a 5 torrent rot doing gt/it/gt/it/gt and then at the next set using it/gt/it/gt/it.
    Last edited by McWaffles; 03-01-2013 at 08:09 AM.
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  7. #7
    Ascendant Zazen's Avatar
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    Macroing Battle Remote with Power Core is not a good idea (for raiding). I would much rather use my first Battle Remote when Flaring Power, Orchestra of the Planes and Wild Growth are active.

    Also I wrote a guide for Tactman long before anyone was even using the build, though admittedly some of the information needs to be updated now that it's mainstream and has went through many hours of raid use.

  8. #8
    Rift Master McWaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zazen View Post
    Macroing Battle Remote with Power Core is not a good idea (for raiding). I would much rather use my first Battle Remote when Flaring Power, Orchestra of the Planes and Wild Growth are active.

    Also I wrote a guide for Tactman long before anyone was even using the build, though admittedly some of the information needs to be updated now that it's mainstream and has went through many hours of raid use.
    It's always better to have it out of macro, esp if doing power core rotations, but this guide is intended to make the spec easier to use for people just learning it, and if you do not have other players with power core in your raid you should be aligning your power core with flaring anyways, meaning you would be using battle remote correctly and have it lined up for the next power core/WG (which is where you'd want to use it).
    "You're just realizing the fault of your species, human beings are the most untrustworthy, backstabbing creatures on this planet. Except for bears."

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Orangu's Avatar
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    When curative core is down you can do 5 torrents if not 6-8 in a row (for aoe purposes) and put out way more damage. afterwards when the AOE is done you just go back to 4 torrent rotations until you get back down to 5 stacks. whenever I have curative core down I always do 5 torrents though like

    GT > IT >GT > IT > GT > EB > TP > IT > GT > IT > GT > IT. more DPS and not wasting a torrent primer stack.

    ALSO if you are thinking about using this build, practice positioning a lot with it before going into a raid, it is way more of an instinct spec than a follow this rotation spec due to times of burst needed, so try to get used to it.

    Waffles thank you for writing this and would you mind if I took some of this for the rogue bible I'm writing and gave you a very honorable mention for putting this together?
    Last edited by Orangu; 03-01-2013 at 05:28 PM.


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  10. #10
    Rift Master McWaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangu View Post
    When curative core is down you can do 5 torrents if not 6-8 in a row (for aoe purposes) and put out way more damage. afterwards when the AOE is done you just go back to 4 torrent rotations until you get back down to 5 stacks. whenever I have curative core down I always do 5 torrents though like

    GT > IT >GT > IT > GT > EB > TP > IT > GT > IT > GT > IT. more DPS and not wasting a torrent primer stack.

    ALSO if you are thinking about using this build, practice positioning a lot with it before going into a raid, it is way more of an instinct spec than a follow this rotation spec due to times of burst needed, so try to get used to it.

    Waffles thank you for writing this and would you mind if I took some of this for the rogue bible I'm writing and gave you a very honorable mention for putting this together?
    Take all you want, change what you want, etc.

    And yes, I fully agree on timing use of more than 4 torrents for higher burst, after which you can use purely TP as finisher until stacks are reasonable and energy is manageable, but that begins to make the spec more complex, and would serve as part of a separate section for a higher dps, more complex way of using this spec.
    "You're just realizing the fault of your species, human beings are the most untrustworthy, backstabbing creatures on this planet. Except for bears."

  11. #11
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    There are many rotations and way to play tact but the most important thing for every1 is to practice it on solo/experts/10mans etc and then they can make the correct rotation for the actual bossfight. Personally i play it differently on each boss for max DPS.
    At the moment tact is best DPS for all of the hard mode encounters except kain so if your guild has 3-4 dedicated tactician DPS you wont have problems with the enrage timers.
    Last edited by Painful; 03-02-2013 at 02:29 AM.
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  12. #12
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    You should be able to get 2 rotations of empyrean ray for every rotation finishing with torrent primer. I know you only posted the simplest rotation but you only need to refresh torrent primer right before the 30 sec duration buff is about to drop.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

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  13. #13
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    P.S. - If you muck around a bit more with different variations rather then the original combination (for the most part) of the Tactman build, there are some other good tactician builds.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  14. #14
    Rift Master McWaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    P.S. - If you muck around a bit more with different variations rather then the original combination (for the most part) of the Tactman build, there are some other good tactician builds.
    The spec in and of itself is versatile beyond belief, with both variants and rotations.

    For example, you can pick up rapid extrication in mm for interrupt duty, the knock backs/speed boosts for pvp, curative torrent to assist during spike raid damage, etc.

    In terms or rotations, it alters consistently based on when you need the timed burst of >4 consecutive torrents and how many "break" phases you have.

    When all's said and done, doing anything more than a simple guide would takes pages to do justice for this spec, and the only real suggestion I can give to people really willing to min max it is constant use in group content, not on dummies.
    "You're just realizing the fault of your species, human beings are the most untrustworthy, backstabbing creatures on this planet. Except for bears."

  15. #15
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    I meant that there's different builds with point spreads between tact, mm and other souls that can get you a bit more dps, moreso then just dropping some points for an interrupt, etc...

    Tactician is a really versatile soul, people shouldn't be afraid to mess around with different variations.
    Last edited by Mayi; 03-02-2013 at 08:51 PM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

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