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Thread: NB-Sin Spec

  1. #1
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Default NB-Sin Spec

    OK, a lot of work has gone into min-maxing the spec. The updated version of this spec should be about ~800 dps higher then the original.

    Strengths:
    The spec provides lethal poison for the raid. Lethal poison is 5% crit for everyone's attacks, which should come out to 2.5-3% extra damage for everyone in the raid.

    The spec is also relatively simple, has good aoe and single target dps.

    Weaknesses:
    The spec uses backstab, so loses dps if you're not behind the boss. Another weakness is target switching, you lose dps switching targets because your fiery spike stacks take a while to build.

    Spec:

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#w...p8w/ynG0H48g/A

    Buffs:
    Lethal Poison
    Virulent Poison

    Use the assassin crystal (not nightblade).

    Stat Weights (with raid buffs):
    AP 1
    Crit Power .63
    Crit .3
    Dex .945
    Str .42

    What the weights represent is the value of each stat. Take the number of whatever stat you want to compare to AP and times it by the weight to find it's equivalent value. So for example, .3 crit means it takes over 3 crit to be equal to one point of attack power. So if one item gives 100 crit and another gives 30ap, you'd times the crit value by the weight (.3 for this build) and find that 100 crit is equal to 30 ap.

    You can copy and paste the weights above into the weights section on this site to find which items are best for this build:
    http://www.rift-hero.com/roguegear/index.php

    or you can use this gear list here:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...U3JxRlE#gid=20


    Here's my setup:

    1 - Puncture
    2 - Builder Macro
    3 - Dusk Strike Macro
    4 - Finisher Macro
    5 - Fiery Spike
    6 - AoE Macro
    7 - Flame Blitz Macro
    8 - Ebon Fury
    9 - On the double
    10 - Break free/Cleanse Soul

    Macros:

    Builder macro:
    #show dusk to dawn
    cast dusk to dawn
    cast backstab
    cast savage strike
    cast fiery chains
    cast swift shot
    cast expose weakness

    Finisher Macro:
    #show Scourge of Darkness
    cast scourge of darkness
    cast blazing strike
    cast flame thrust

    Flame Blitz Macro:
    #show flame blitz
    cast flame blitz
    cast flame thrust

    #show Dusk Strike Macro
    cast dusk to dawn
    cast backstab
    cast dusk strike
    cast expose weakness

    AoE
    #show fiery chains
    cast fiery chains
    cast weapon flare
    cast expose weakness

    Rotations

    On pull:
    Fiery - Fiery - Fiery - Fiery - Fiery - Finisher (replace any of those fiery spikes with a flame blitz if you're in melee)
    Builder - Builder - Puncture - Dusk Strike - Finisher.

    Then spam Dusk strike until starved while using finishers at 5 combo points, then use ebon fury when you run out of energy. Keep spamming the dusk strike macro until ebon fury wears off. Return to regular combo builders immediately, don't use up all your energy. By spamming fiery 5 times you'll get heat retention on your first Scourge of Darkness and dusk to dawn will always refresh after you've used SoD further in the rotation.

    Normal rotation:
    Build to 5 combo points and use your finisher. Use puncture but never clip it, it's best to not have it up for a couple of seconds rather then clip it. Use a fiery spike after scourge of darkness fires, or alternatively you can hit the combo builder macro once and then use flame blitz.

    The general rotation is fairly simple, spam builder and use a finisher at 5 combo points. Use dusk strike whenever your energy is high, try to stay near 50%. Make sure you don't starve yourself by using dusk strike too often. The goal is never hit your maximum energy or starve in-between ebon furies or verse of joys.

    Right when 30% comes build up to 5 stacks with dusk strikes and ebon fury as soon as 30% hits. The build is very simple with good results.


    AoE Rotation:
    Fiery spike - Flame Blitz to start. Then hit the aoe combo builder and then flame blitz macro, keep repeating this over and over again.

    For aoe your goal is to spread fiery spike as quickly as possible. First apply fiery spike to your target, then flame blitz to spread fiery spike in aoe, afterwards hit the aoe builder once per flame blitz. While aoeing the less mobs there are the better it is to use SoD, I believe it's worth it as long as there are less then 4 mobs. I generally wait until fiery chains fires, then dusk to dawn and build up to 5 combo points as quickly as possible, then hit SoD. Then go back to the normal rotation.

    You also have the option of not taking flame thrust or flame blitz for a dps gain on the dummy, but don't see why you would. AoE lethal is a good thing for the raid, and a ranged finisher helps on most encounters.

    Thanks to Gery for his work (it's practically his build), and everyone else who contributed to the build.

    I use this build on every encounter in FT and EE with good results. There are some encounters where other souls or builds will outperform this one, but it's always competitive.
    Last edited by Mayi; 04-30-2013 at 02:15 PM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  2. #2
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Bah, already found a mistake:

    #show ebon fury
    cast ebon fury
    cast backstab
    cast dusk strike
    cast expose weakness

    How do I get guide writer so I can edit the OP?
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Mayi , all the rogues including myself, love you so much..

    Thank you for all your hard work.
    Hey look, I'm a marksman

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    i think youŽll be using the nb synergy chrystal for this build ?

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    How do I get guide writer so I can edit the OP?
    When I did it, I PMed Walsingham and then waited like a week and a half.

    I have no idea who to contact about it now that Walsingham is gone.

  6. #6
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Xillean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    Bah, already found a mistake:

    #show ebon fury
    cast ebon fury
    cast backstab
    cast dusk strike
    cast expose weakness

    How do I get guide writer so I can edit the OP?
    I am amazed you dont already have it tbh, but pm Elrar he should be able to hook ya up
    Myrmidon Xillean Tormeng, Lord of War
    Dimensions: Planar Study Spec: 61/10/5
    PA: 900 | Score: 11120 | Tradeskills: All Grandmastered
    4/4 GP | 4/4 DH | 5/5 GSB | 5/5 RoS Conqueror | 11/11 HK | 2/4 RotP | 1/8 ID
    Characters: Xillean R90, Phantasmal R72, Eylisa R68, Kattie R74

  7. #7
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siccario View Post
    i think youŽll be using the nb synergy chrystal for this build ?
    Yea, NB crystal. Even though the sin crystal increases poisons and whatnot I found it was garbage. The 4 point bonus seems to increase poison damage by a flat 200, so in a spec where poisons are critting for over 3k, 200 dps is nothing.

    Something else I forgot to post. The spec is versatile. I used the spec in every encounter in FT and EE last night including trash except twins (just because our tanks don't like having melee because they put poop puddles down where they have to run) and it did well. Only fight I did poorly on was Zaviel but that was probably more my fault then the spec's.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  8. #8
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xillean View Post
    I am amazed you dont already have it tbh, but pm Elrar he should be able to hook ya up
    Probably don't have it because I don't general post guides. We need Hoko and others like that back who compiles everyone work into one guide that's well formatted. I'll do leg work and testing but that's usually it.
    Last edited by Mayi; 02-07-2013 at 12:12 PM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  9. #9
    Plane Walker Hosss's Avatar
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    You should probably take out 1 point out of Coup De Grace and pick up twilight force. Twilight Force hits harder than primal strike under 30%

    and make a separate macro

    #show dusk to dawn
    cast dusk to dawn
    cast backstab
    cast twilight force
    cast fiery chains
    cast empyrean bolt
    cast expose weakness
    Last edited by Hosss; 02-07-2013 at 12:20 PM.

  10. #10
    Ascendant charliekelly's Avatar
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    I was actually trying something similar with deeper sin for thread of death and 15% damage after from stealth in conjunction with dark malady. Was big numbers, but overall didn't parse as high as 61 nb and didn't continue trying it very long

  11. #11
    Rift Master McWaffles's Avatar
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    I've actually been testing nb/sin hybrids pretty extensively since alpha, and these are a few recommendations/comments I have to make.

    The first is to move 2 points from murderous intent to improved savage strike and replace primal strike with savage strike. Net you lose a few dusk strikes over the course of an encounter, but SS hits harder from behind, is affected by expose weakness bonus, and will have the 10% bonus crit chance, causing the build to scale even better.

    In terms of crystals, the 200 flat poison damage 2x poisons proc'ing at a 50% chance per second per target is a flat 200 per target dps boost, scourge with 220 flat damage bonus per proc and 25 procs on a 30s CD is 5500 damage every 30s, or 183 dps boost overall. Especially if using savage strike for an additional phys ability to proc EW, the sin crystal pulls ahead.

    The last thing you can look at is weaving in Impale.
    Note that like SoD, you will need to manually reapply FS afterwards to prevent it from falling. From what I can tell, this is a small dps boost, but only worth it >30% and only with heat retention up. (aka do not use when DtD pops in rot)
    "You're just realizing the fault of your species, human beings are the most untrustworthy, backstabbing creatures on this planet. Except for bears."

  12. #12
    General of Telara spowers454's Avatar
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    1st off nice guide. I've been playing around with lethal hybrids and this helped me to fill in some of the gaps that I haven't worked out yet.

    I have noticed a sizable dps increase from using pucture. It is without question more damage per gcd than primal strike (35-40% depending on dot crits from what I can tell), so if you can manage another dot I would use it.

    I've still been messing with impale. As far as it vs blazing strike, impale is def doing much more damage but having to manually refresh fiery so i am still trying to figure out the best way to handle that. Using a 1cp blitz after an impale refresh seems to be working out the best for me so far.

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    Quite similar to what I have which is this: http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#w...Ag/ynG0H48g/tc

    Differences are
    • I took Puncture and keep it up manually.
    • I did not take Eventide since I use Savage Strike.
    • I took Twilight Force so I don't have to deal with bugged weapon switching and I don't lose Serrated Blades when at range plus it hits harder than Empyrean Bolt.
    • I took RS as the third soul to get Shadow Shift and Unseen Fury is a good dps investment for the remaining point.
    • I also use assassin crystal and not NB.

    Originally I had no Flame Blitz and no Physical Trauma to get 4 in Unseen Fury and Planebound Resilience but after Physical Trauma was buffed it should be better dps than Unseen Fury now.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    I'll try out savage strike instead of primal strike. One thing though, because of backstab and using expose weakness the spec isn't as energy friendly as 61NB. It takes a lot longer to regain your energy so using anything but primal strike should starve you.

    I'll try twilight and savage strike though. I could see using savage strike being better then primal, especially with expose weakness, but I think the trade off will be savage (with no energy for any extra NB attacks) vs primal and some dusk strikes.

    In regards to impale, I tried a hundred different variations of using impale and found each one was a dps loss. Even a 1 point impale after a blazing strike so you don't have to reapply fiery was a loss.

    In regards to the crystal, I did test the assassin crystal and found it was a dps loss. I'll test it again though to make sure.
    Last edited by Mayi; 02-07-2013 at 03:33 PM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  15. #15
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Tested out a bunch of different variations, so far I've found this one is the best:

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#w...h8w/ynG0H48g/T

    Same as above (using NB crystal) except you use puncture.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

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