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Thread: NB-Sin Spec

  1. #46
    RIFT Guide Writer Nynja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KickButtMario View Post
    So is this currently the top dps spec for rogues atm? I know 61mm got nerfed silently (no confirmation from trion, but just a observation from players).
    It wasn't nerfed actually.(parses the same on pts as before hotfix 8).everything works as intendend, despite of that the MM ist the best RANGE DPS, not our top DPS overall
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  2. #47
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    OK, for now at least I think I've settled on this build being best:

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#w...EAg/ykEMkgx0/T

    Tested out the opportunity cost of losing 1 Coup de Grace and grabbing twilight force and you don't lose much dps at all. If it's a dps increase sub 30% then it's worth it.

    Use the assassin crystal and savage strike.
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    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  3. #48
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Scratch that.

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#w...G94/ykEMkgx0/T

    This is the build I settled on. I tested out twilight force sub 30% and was getting less procs, I ended up gaining no dps sub 30% using twilight. Using dusk strike I gained 1k dps sub 30%. I still don't see the point in taking twilight, it's as bad as the Twilight movies!

    Quote Originally Posted by KickButtMario View Post
    So is this currently the top dps spec for rogues atm? I know 61mm got nerfed silently (no confirmation from trion, but just a observation from players).
    Now that I've settled on the build I'll start that up.
    Last edited by Mayi; 02-08-2013 at 01:56 PM.
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    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    Can you try something out for me? I was doing more testing of builds and rotations on the assassin side, wanted to get your opinion on this one:

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#w...G94/ynG8kgx0/T
    or
    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#w...G94/ykEMkgx0/T

    These two were so close I couldn't tell the dps apart. Extra crit on savage will give a bit more crit power scaling though. I have a feeling 10% extra physical is best but it's hard to tell.

    I tried out multiple variations and decided that yea, when you put in savage strike and puncture the assassin crystal is best.

    I didn't find 1 RS to be a dps gain though.

    Both of those builds were about 200 dps higher then any other assassin crystal combination I used. I also found it's best to keep puncture up during ebon fury (wanted to see if you agreed).
    Here's an approximation on how much dps each point gives with an assassin rotation when calculated from my parse:
    Improved Savage Strike 110
    Murderous Intent 130
    Unseen Fury 240
    Coup de Grace 120
    Ionization 180
    Scorch and Wither 175
    Poison Potency 145
    These include the dps gain from investment into the soul which is about 80 for a dps soul, 60 for tact and 40 for ts. So taking Twilight Force is about 40 dps loss. Mostly the difference is drowned in the rng and it's better to just calculate the difference from the parses. The relative difference between the value of these talents remains about the same as long as the rotation is the same but gear is worse.

    Even with assassin rotation you are best off putting the points into Ionization if you want to keep the tactician as third soul, personally I like the blink and find it valuable so I take RS and Unseen Fury.

    I use Backstab and Puncture during Ebon Fury but the goal there is to minimize the amount of Savage Strikes so it's not a good idea for example to do a Puncture just before Ebon Fury ends when you could do it right after it ends.

    Also I don't take Twilight Force to be used instead of Savage Strike at under 30%, I take it as a ranged ability since my third soul doesn't provide it.

  5. #50
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    OK, if you've done dps per talent you've most likely done weights as well. Am I right? What do you have for the weights for the build?
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    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    OK, if you've done dps per talent you've most likely done weights as well. Am I right? What do you have for the weights for the build?
    I haven't calculated stat weights that much. I have just one set of gear which I use with all builds. But the weights are mostly a factor of how much +crit chance talents the build has and if there are any massive +AP bonuses. This build just has 5% crit chance so the AP:CP ratio is probably somewhere around 1:1.6 or 1:1.7.

  7. #52
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    I went off the numbers you posted per talent and you're right, scorch and whither is far superior to improved savage strike. So this is the final build (for now) I'll be using.

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#w...Gp8w/ykE2y48/T

    I just did a parse of 17.2k on the dummy, so that's 1k higher then when I first started. Thanks a lot. Even though 17.2k might sound low since you mentioned you're hitting 17.5 in the foundry, I'm using an expert dagger mainhand since rogue 1 handers never drop for my guild.

    I'm going to play with the build in raid settings before deciding on whether twilight force is superior to the point in scorch and whither. Something like that is subjective and dependant on the encounters.
    Last edited by Mayi; 02-08-2013 at 02:36 PM.
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    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  8. #53
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    You could still move one point from Murderous Intent to Poison Potency.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    Scratch that.

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#w...G94/ykEMkgx0/T

    This is the build I settled on. I tested out twilight force sub 30% and was getting less procs, I ended up gaining no dps sub 30% using twilight. Using dusk strike I gained 1k dps sub 30%. I still don't see the point in taking twilight, it's as bad as the Twilight movies!



    Now that I've settled on the build I'll start that up.
    Why for Tact as the zero point soul? Unless i'm missing something, it only gives 0.75% increase to damage done, as opposed to say MM, which gives 1%.

    Also, according to my tool tip, swift shot does far more damage then empyrean bolt, plus it gives a speed boost. And you also get on the double.
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  10. #55
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBoom View Post
    Why for Tact as the zero point soul? Unless i'm missing something, it only gives 0.75% increase to damage done, as opposed to say MM, which gives 1%.
    You don't get any damage boost with a 0-point soul.

  11. #56
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    0 point for a ranged attack, but I think 0 point MM is better due to runspeed and swift hits harder (on the 2nd to last build posted)

  12. #57
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    You could still move one point from Murderous Intent to Poison Potency.
    Tried that, found it was a dps loss. Not much but there, thought it could be RNG so parsed it twice.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBoom View Post
    Also, according to my tool tip, swift shot does far more damage then empyrean bolt, plus it gives a speed boost. And you also get on the double.
    I assumed the passives in nightblade would boost empyrean bolt so it was superior to swift shot.

    Here's what I found when I parsed them all out:
    Twilight force - 3739 average (ended early because of energy starvation after 50 seconds)
    Swift shot - 3949 average
    Empyrean bolt - 3757

    So you're absolutely right, despite all the talents in NB boosting magical attacks taking MM as the 0 point soul is a no brainer. You get On the double plus a speed boost to help get back into melee quickly. I think putting expose weakness from range is what's tipping things in MM's favour.

    On top of that, using swift shot or empyrean bolt means when you come back from a disconnect you'll be at or near 100% energy vs twilight which will starve you. I don't think the point in twilight is worth it... the only purpose it has is for if you mistime ebon fury sub 30% and then have to disconnect right afterwards, where nightrage will boost it to be the best out of all the ranged attacks.

    So this is the best for now that I've found:

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#w...Gp8w/ykE2y48/A
    Last edited by Mayi; 02-08-2013 at 03:20 PM.
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    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  13. #58
    Plane Walker Haipaa's Avatar
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    Also, keep in mind that Twilight Force procs Serrated Blades. which you will not be able to keep up on longer disconnects.
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  14. #59
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    how much more dps does this spec do over 61 NB?

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  15. #60
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haipaa View Post
    Also, keep in mind that Twilight Force procs Serrated Blades. which you will not be able to keep up on longer disconnects.
    Well I parsed out the ranged dps on multiple attempts and stuff, the other ranged builders came out ahead every time. Think it's fiery spike that's doing serrated btw.

    How much more then 61 NB? I'd say 1k or so, 1k less then 61nb from ranged.

    Hope they don't nerf it, really like the spec's versatility. Hate to spend all the time min-maxing just to get it thumped down.
    Last edited by Mayi; 02-08-2013 at 03:37 PM.
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    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

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