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Thread: Shadowlands 61 BladeDancer - The Correct Way - Version 2.0.1

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Shadowlands 61 BladeDancer - The Correct Way - Version 2.0.1

    I've seen a lot of Blade Dancer guides, and well, most of them are just plain wrong! Or don't fully utilize what the build is able to do. I wrote this guide when 1.11 came out and it has been on our private forums for awhile, I believe its time to share it and shed some light on the aids that is the user communities view on how to play bladedancer.

    This guide will be in constant flux and will always represent what I find to be the current maximum DPS I (keyword there I) can pull out of the spec and will represent my internal thoughts upon how I play the spec. There will be a changelog at the bottom of the guide to keep track of changes made.

    Thanks,
    Martialbob

    Not much has changed from 50(if you were following my rotation prior to Shadowlands) replace Keen Strike with Binary Strike and Dauntless Strike with Double Strike.

    Add Fated Blades in above BaSP for your single target rotation and drop Blade Tempo from your single target rotation unless its needed to fill a gap where another buff isn't up. (Still need to do some testing on which one is actually the better DPS, at this point I don't believe it matters all that much, if somebody has done actual math and not just eyeballing please let me know).


    The build:
    61 Bladedancer, 8 Nightblade, 7 Assassin

    The reasoning behind the 8 Nightblade, 7 Assasin, by design Bladedancer has no weapon buffs... 8 Nightblade and 7 Assassin gets you two weapon buffs, these buffs are worth a substantial amount of DPS.

    another build i'm contemplating with 12 Sin

    61 Bladedance, 3 Nightblade, 12 Sin

    Some testing is needed on where to put the 7 points in assassin... whether the crit is more beneficial then 2% dps... Testing to ensue. Or even if the points in nightblade are relative anymore and they would be better spent in assassin since crit is precious at this moment.

    I enjoy the new Bladedancer Soul due to the fact that it is challenging and rewarding. There are ZERO!!! macros used in the spec. Everything a Bladedancer casts is instant cast with no cooldowns. No more "Combo Builder" spamming macros using one key for these bad boys

    This guide is going to be broken down into Two Sections: Single Target and AoE

    SINGLE TARGET SECTION:
    There are five buffs and one of them needs to be kept up at all times. Per the amount of DPS they are worth, they are ranked in this order: (The priority order of Fated Blades vs BaSP still needs to be tested)
    1. Fated Bladed
    2. Blade and Soul Parity
    3. Dualism
    4. Double Coup
    5. Blade Tempo
    and they should be used in this order

    Blade Tempo Should NOT be used in the single target rotation unless another buff isn't available.

    GLOSSARY:
    FB: Fated Blades
    BaSP - Blade and Soul Parity
    DC - Double Coup
    BT - Blade Tempo
    QS - Quick Strike
    PS - Precision Strike
    KS - Keen Strike
    BS - Binary Strike - (Replaces Keen Strike)
    DS - Double Strike - (Replaces Dauntless Strike)
    OHB - One Hunded Blades
    DD - Deadly Dance

    Deadly Dance Optimal Reset State(DDORS) - "A point at which the rouge has 0 combo points and QS/PS is available."

    Something to note damage wise, dependent upon cooldown, in general the damage a move will do ranks as follows:
    1. Double Strike(Finisher)
    2. Quick Strike
    3. Precision Strike
    4. Binary Strike

    This doesn't effect you much at this point, but once you start learning Bladedancer and how to intertwine the above four abilities and how to quickly do 'Resets' this will come ingrained into your brain.


    DO NOT cast Fated Blades yet for the following reason: Your Deadly Dance is not active yet; therefore, your abilities hit like wet noodles and your buff is wasted on these attacks.

    Flash of Steel > BS > Fated Blades > DS


    PS > BS > QS > BS > DS
    Repeat until BaSP is at 2 or 1 Seconds
    Clip Fated Blades with OHB

    Cast BaSP
    PS>BS>QS>BS>DS
    Clip BaSP with Dancing Steel (Benefit of this needs to be tested)


    DON'T CAST DUALISM YET
    The reason behind this being the following:
    Dualism and Double Coup only apply to combo point building abilities, if you don't follow the following logic you will waste a GCD or two to a suboptimal rotation, or to a finisher instead of a Combo Point ability.

    If you are doing your rotation correclty, when your OHB hits the end of its cast you should be in one of a few scenarios listed below:
    1. 3 combo points and QS/PS is available - QS > BS > DS > Dualism
    2. 4 combo points and QS/PS isn't avialable - BS > DS > Dualism
    3. 5 Combo points and QS/PS is available - DS > Dualism
    4. 0 Combo points and QS/PS is available - Dualism

    Dualism Rotation:

    QS > BS > QS > BS > DS

    Yes, this is six combo points and here is why: The extra binary strike at the end of the rotation gets you back into a DDORS and allows Deadly Dance to apply to a QS > BS > QS instead of a BS > QS > BS netting in a higher damage done.

    Double Coup Rotation:

    PS > BS > QS > BS > DS

    Blade Tempo Rotation: (if needed)

    PS > BS > QS > BS > DS

    Cast Fated Blades the moment it comes up and continue from the start of the rotation, even if you shorten the time Blade Double Coup is up.

    This is a full set of rotation and should cover all scenarios within a full rotation of all four cooldowns; obviously, movement will throw some curveballs into the above equation, you will quickly learn how to run resets and get yourself back into optimal rotation.

    Now then I'm sure a few people are having a nutgasm with the fact that my rotations don't begin with Binary Strikes, the reason behind this is because leading with a Binary Strike is PLAIN WRONG!! It does the least damage of your attacks and having your Deady Dance apply to two Binary Strikes instead of two of your heavy hitters (Precision/Quick Strike) is dumb and a loss in dps. So retrain your simple brains and do the right rotation.


    AOE ROTATION
    The priority of cooldowns changes when doing AoE damage and goes as follows:
    1. Fated Blades
    2. Blade and Soul Parity
    3. Blade Tempo
    4. Double Coup
    5. Dualism(This applies no damage boost to AoE in any form)

    Try to use OHB and Dancing Blades within FB, BaSP, or Blade Tempo. Besides that its spamming Twin Strike and using Compound Attack at 5 Combo Points in place of Dauntless Strike.

    There is research that has been done suggesting that you Twin Strike to only three combo points, and then Compound Attack. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter whether you go to 3 combo points or to 5 combo points.

    I hope you enjoyed the above guide. I'm also working on some blinking specs, I believe somewhere in the mess that is the new Rifstalker it exists somewhere.
    Until then enjoy the above and do phat deepz!!

    *All math for the above guide was done by Martialbob, if you share this guide with others please give credit where its due. - Thanks, Martialbob*

    For Advanced Bladedancer users - I did a lot of learning from the following guide to develop this guides optimized rotation and am giving credit where it is due. Link


    Changelog:
    2.0.1 - Grammatical Corrections
    2.0 - Initial Rework for 61 BladeDancer - Storm Legion Beta
    1.1.0 - Rework of rotation for Deadly Dance optimization
    1.0.4 - Rework of spec to 51/8/7 from 51/10/5
    1.0.3 - Swap of Dualism and Deadly Coup in DPS Priority
    1.0.2 - Tweaking of opening rotation
    1.0.1 - Add of Advanced Bladedancer users section
    1.0.0 - Initial Writing of Guide
    Martialbob of Virus
    11/11 HK -- 8/8 ID
    "Sufficient to have stood, though free to fall. - Milton, Paradise Lost"

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Your dualism rotation is wrong.

    With yours, you're getting 4 Quick Strikes (well, two, but they're doubled from the dance buff) and 2 Binary Strikes in each finisher sequence, with the last Binary Strike not being boosted. This means that over the course of Dualism, you'll get:

    16 boosted Quick Strikes
    4 boosted Binary Strikes
    4 regular Binary Strikes
    4 Double Strikes

    If you instead use QS->BS->QS->Finisher, then BS->PS->BS->Finisher, you get 4 second finisher cycles instead of 5 second ones, and this gives you:

    10 boosted Quick Strikes
    10 boosted Precision Strikes
    5 boosted Binary Strikes
    5 Double Strikes

    10 precision strikes, an extra finisher, and an extra boosted Binary Strike will easily beat 6 quick strikes and 4 unboosted Binary Strikes.

    (If you're going to compare them on a dummy, make sure that you have full Duelist Pose stacks before you use Dualism, otherwise RNG will really muck with the comparison.)

    Also, you should always start your dance rotation with Blade and Soul Parity, so that Duelist Pose stacks up faster (not to mention that it lets you get Hack and Slash and Magnify Pain up sooner).

    Also also, you mention Dauntless Strike in your AoE rotation, when I'm pretty sure that you mean Double Strike. You're saying not to use it, so it doesn't really matter much, but still.
    Last edited by Muspel; 11-28-2012 at 08:42 AM.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Maluz's Avatar
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    Great guide Marti,
    I am starting from lvl 1 one and want to go BD all the way. Anything ya can tell me for leveling up wise about a simple rotation and wwhere to start off my tree? Thanks!

  4. #4
    Rift Master McWaffles's Avatar
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    Most of the above information has been publicly available since 1.7, prior to BD even being a main raid viable spec. It really hasn't changed much at all since then, with the exception of the precision strike change making it easier to play and the addition of a fifth dance.

    Regardless, you do want to start with BsP over FB to maximise Dualist Pose ASAP, and which ones is higher dps will be heavily dependent upon your current gear and stats. Crit power is obviously going to make your BsP ridonculous and AP has a larger effect on Fated Blades. This will additionally determine the benefit of the 15 pt subsouls, as an extremely high crit power build could make high use of the crit in ranger as well as assassin. All in all, BD should be carried by every competitive rogue for whenever a melee friendly fight presents itself.
    "You're just realizing the fault of your species, human beings are the most untrustworthy, backstabbing creatures on this planet. Except for bears."

  5. #5
    Plane Touched
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    Newbie rogue question on these BD guides.

    Why do the rotations for BD always start with an offhand ability? You will almost never be in a situation at the beginning of a fight where an offhand ability is available. As well as being a melee spec with constant disconnects you will constantly be put into situations where the offhand window has expired. Is there something I am missing?

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezariel View Post
    Newbie rogue question on these BD guides.

    Why do the rotations for BD always start with an offhand ability? You will almost never be in a situation at the beginning of a fight where an offhand ability is available. As well as being a melee spec with constant disconnects you will constantly be put into situations where the offhand window has expired. Is there something I am missing?
    The initial rotation is Flash of Steel->Binary Strike (or Keen Strike if you don't have that yet)->Finisher.

    After that, you begin each combo point sequence with an offhand attack, and end it with a mainhand attack. Rinse, lather, repeat.

    The guides focus more on the rotation you'll be doing for most of the fight, rather than what you do once at the very start.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    Muspel,

    Thanks for the info on the Dualism section that thought never came into my head... I'll get the guide updated once I run the numbers. I also see your thoughts on the BaSP... I'll update with BaSP ahead of Fated Blades.

    McWaffles,

    Yes most of the information has been available, but not in one place, and in a guide that is well written and easy to read, I would like to compile that knowledge into a well written technical document.

    Ezariel,

    The rotations for BD always begin with an offhand ability simply for the fact that they hit harder then your main hand attacks, and maximize the amount of harder hitting abilities that are affected by Deadly Dance.

    If you begin a rotation with a main hand attack you get a Main Hand > Offhand > Mainhand affected by Deadly Dance..

    If you begin a rotation with a offhand attack you get Offhand > Main Hand > Offhand netting in a higher total damage done.

    Maluz,
    To be honest this spec isn't the greatest for leveling, look elsewhere for a leveling guide
    Martialbob of Virus
    11/11 HK -- 8/8 ID
    "Sufficient to have stood, though free to fall. - Milton, Paradise Lost"

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    stricken from record for guide change ><
    Last edited by Miloria; 11-28-2012 at 09:03 AM.

  9. #9
    Shadowlander
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    Wow.... you really can't update original OP... thats annoying.. New thread incoming till they make it where I'm able to edit OP
    Martialbob of Virus
    11/11 HK -- 8/8 ID
    "Sufficient to have stood, though free to fall. - Milton, Paradise Lost"

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    I used 51BD as my solo spec all over EI right after they adjusted it. Decent avoidance, good CDs and Once you get meditative trance its a passable solo spec, you aren't going to be ripping down groups of 6 mobs at a time with out some sort of CDs but for bouncing between mobs and just general fun its not bad. Its also a decent way to familiarize yourself with the spec, there's a lot of goodies in it that aren't just a pain in the *** rigid rotation, and survivability goes up with vampiric essences from the death PA tree. However all that being said it was pretty lame for soloing in SL, you could rip mobs to shreds relatively quickly, but if you got anywhere close to over your head you were down. I just used NB with vamp essences, that little healing engine you get from tactician, even though it only heals for like 2-300 is awesome for soloing paired with vamp essences. Plus nightblade hits like a train now. But I love nightblade like Charlie sheen loves crack, so I'm biased.

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martialbob View Post
    Wow.... you really can't update original OP... thats annoying.. New thread incoming till they make it where I'm able to edit OP
    PM one of the forum moderators and ask for Rift Guide Writer status, then you'll be able to edit your posts.

    It usually takes a week or two for them to get around to it, though. Or at least it did for me.
    Last edited by Muspel; 11-28-2012 at 09:50 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by McWaffles View Post
    Crit power is obviously going to make your BsP ridonculous and AP has a larger effect on Fated Blades. This will additionally determine the benefit of the 15 pt subsouls, as an extremely high crit power build could make high use of the crit in ranger as well as assassin. All in all, BD should be carried by every competitive rogue for whenever a melee friendly fight presents itself.
    This is something I've been considering for the future when better geared up.

    Right now I've been running Bladedancer in 5-mans with 9 Assassin/6 Ranger for maximum crit chance (after I got way too annoyed with Duelist Pose falling off at inconvenient times). I'm wondering how such a crit focussed build will work out later on if Crit Power is stacked up to high heaven.

    Well, I think BaSP will become very entertaining at that point if nothing else. Heh.
    Last edited by Kedon; 11-28-2012 at 10:14 AM.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Couple of things:

    1. Dualism is still the highest dps dance, followed by B&SP, fated blades, double coup and then blade tempo. If it's a pure ST fight you're really gimping your dps not using double coup.
    2. 10sin-5nb is more dps then any other variant. While it's true you get the extra poison/enchant with other variants it doesn't offset the dps gained from 10sin. Hellfire blades doesn't hit very hard and neither does lethal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    Your dualism rotation is wrong.

    With yours, you're getting 4 Quick Strikes (well, two, but they're doubled from the dance buff) and 2 Binary Strikes in each finisher sequence, with the last Binary Strike not being boosted. This means that over the course of Dualism, you'll get:

    16 boosted Quick Strikes
    4 boosted Binary Strikes
    4 regular Binary Strikes
    4 Double Strikes

    If you instead use QS->BS->QS->Finisher, then BS->PS->BS->Finisher, you get 4 second finisher cycles instead of 5 second ones, and this gives you:

    10 boosted Quick Strikes
    10 boosted Precision Strikes
    5 boosted Binary Strikes
    5 Double Strikes

    10 precision strikes, an extra finisher, and an extra boosted Binary Strike will easily beat 6 quick strikes and 4 unboosted Binary Strikes.
    I've never tried this dualism rotation, I'll give it a go but you can't argue with double quick strikes rather then mixing in precision.
    Last edited by Mayi; 12-03-2012 at 10:57 PM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    Was wondering if anyone can post up their karuulalerts for each of the dances? If anyone is still playing this spec :P

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Code:
    B&SP;1;T;player;2;T;F;F;Blade and Soul Parity;A42ED82088A1FC750;0;1;F;F;0;0;Rift;Data/\UI\ability_icons\revitalize1c.dds;706;942;48;48;1;1;;CENTER;1;;1;1;1;30;T;T;CENTER;30;T;61;F;0|Duration 1;1;T;player;1;T;F;F;Blade and Soul Parity;A42ED82088A1FC750;0;1;F;F;0;0;Rift;Data/\UI\ability_icons\revitalize1c.dds;652;942;48;48;1;1;;CENTER;1;;1;1;1;30;T;T;CENTER;30;T;6;F;0|Dualism;1;T;player;2;T;F;F;Dualism;A08AA599D54EC42EA;0;1;F;F;0;0;Rift;Data/\UI\ability_icons\deflection1a.dds;810;942;48;48;1;1;;CENTER;1;;1;1;1;30;T;T;CENTER;30;T;61;F;0|Duelist Pose;1;T;player;1;T;F;F;Duelist Pose;AFD711FAE4B616639;0;1;F;F;0;0;Rift;Data/\UI\ability_icons\warlord_ready_posture_a.dds;758;888;48;48;1;1;{stacks};TOPCENTER;1;;1;1;1;20;T;T;BOTTOMCENTER;20;T;6;F;0|Hundred Blades;1;T;player;2;T;F;F;Hundred Blades;AFC629A7E6B897FD6;0;1;F;F;0;0;Rift;Data/\UI\ability_icons\bladedancer_hundred_blades_c.dds;649;888;48;48;1;1;;CENTER;1;;1;1;1;30;T;T;CENTER;30;T;61;F;0|Blade Tempo;1;T;player;2;T;F;F;Blade Tempo;A7450300FC8778E25;0;1;F;F;0;0;Rift;Data/\UI\ability_icons\blade_tempo.dds;914;942;48;48;1;1;;CENTER;1;;1;1;1;30;T;T;CENTER;30;T;61;F;0|Dancing Steel;1;T;player;2;T;F;F;Dancing Steel;AFBA6A5307E862B87;0;1;F;F;0;0;Rift;Data/\UI\ability_icons\dancing_steel.dds;706;888;48;48;1;1;;CENTER;1;;1;1;1;30;T;T;CENTER;30;T;61;F;0|Fated Blades;1;T;player;2;T;F;F;Fated Blades;AFD84C411CF6C17C7;0;1;F;F;0;0;Rift;Data/\UI\ability_icons\harbinger_phantom_blades.dds;758;942;48;48;1;1;;CENTER;1;;1;1;1;30;T;T;CENTER;30;T;61;F;0|Duration 2;1;T;player;1;T;F;F;Dualism;A08AA599D54EC42EA;0;1;F;F;0;0;Rift;Data/\UI\ability_icons\deflection1a.dds;652;942;48;48;1;1;;CENTER;1;;1;1;1;30;T;T;CENTER;30;T;6;F;0|Duration 4;1;T;player;1;T;F;F;Blade Tempo;A7450300FC8778E25;0;1;F;F;0;0;Rift;Data/\UI\ability_icons\blade_tempo.dds;652;942;48;48;1;1;;CENTER;1;;1;1;1;30;T;T;CENTER;30;T;6;F;0|Duration 3;1;T;player;1;T;F;F;Double Coup;A6BDA0931731F4FC8;0;1;F;F;0;0;Rift;Data/\UI\ability_icons\deflection4cc.dds;652;942;48;48;1;1;;CENTER;1;;1;1;1;30;T;T;CENTER;30;T;6;F;0|Double Coup;1;T;player;2;T;F;F;Double Coup;A6BDA0931731F4FC8;0;1;F;F;0;0;Rift;Data/\UI\ability_icons\deflection4cc.dds;862;942;48;48;1;1;;CENTER;1;;1;1;1;30;T;T;CENTER;30;T;61;F;0|Duration 5;1;T;player;1;T;F;F;Fated Blades;AFD84C411CF6C17C7;0;1;F;F;0;0;Rift;Data/\UI\ability_icons\harbinger_phantom_blades.dds;652;942;48;48;1;1;;CENTER;1;;1;1;1;30;T;T;CENTER;30;T;6;F;0
    Get rid of the Duelist Pose alert (I use it to test uptime). Plus the Dancing Steel and Hundred Blades alerts if you don't want them.
    Last edited by Muspel; 01-01-2013 at 09:12 AM.

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