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Thread: 51 NB Guide

  1. #1
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Default 51 NB Guide

    So I'm still working on how to min-max the point placement, if you find a better way to spend the points let me know and I'll adjust the spec. I'm not the best at writing guides, we need Hoko or Gyle to come back so they can copy other people's guides and pretty them up so they're easier to read.

    This is rogue's current highest dps spec.

    Here's the spec I'm using:

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#Ah0/wk99aABBah0/vg
    I'm also playing with 3/3 enchanted weapons and 0/2 Eventide but am not sure if it's best because of the increased energy cost of primal strike.

    Macros:

    Finisher
    #show blazing strike
    cast blazing strike
    cast flame thrust

    Combo Builder:
    #show dusk to dawn
    cast Dusk to Dawn
    cast Primal Strike
    cast swift shot

    Ebon Fury
    #show ebon Fury
    cast ebon fury
    cast dusk strike

    Other abilities Used:
    Fiery Spike
    Flame Blitz
    Scourge of Darkness (SoD)
    Dusk strike

    AoE
    #show living flame
    cast living flame
    cast fiery chains
    cast primal strike

    Buffs:
    Hellfire blades
    Smouldering blades

    Rotation:
    Fiery spike - flame blitz - fiery spike - fiery spike - flame blitz
    Dusk to Dawn - Dusk strike - Dusk strike - Dusk strike - SoD
    Dusk Strike - flame blitz
    Build up to 5 combo points (working in maximum amount of dusk strikes) - Finisher
    Ebon fury macro spam hitting blazing strike at 5cps
    Use SoD on cooldown

    Normal rotation:

    1. Spam combo builder using 1 dusk strike per finisher
    2. If you run out of energy and ever have to wait to hit dusk strike skip it. Do not track dusk strike stacks, keep track of your energy. Only use the 1 dusk strike per rotation if you have enough energy.
    3. Use SoD on cooldown, after SoD hit 1 combo builder and then flame blitz
    4. Before using ebon fury make sure you're at maximum stacks of the dusk strike buff

    Once you get the hang of the normal rotation of how nightblade plays you can start to play with energy management. If you notice your finishers cost 16 energy and your combo builders cost 24 energy, you regain 20 energy a second and fervor/living energy only reduces the cost by 5%.

    You can regain energy by shortening your rotation, so 1 combo point per blazing strike. Your energy will start to rise.. however the catch is each finisher only has a 20% chance per combo point to refresh fiery spike, so watch out. Fiery spike dropping from the target is a large dps loss.

    If you get stuck where fiery spike is about to drop from the target and have combo points, hit flame blitz. Flame blitz costs less energy then fiery spike and applies a fiery spike for free, it's the best way to refresh your fiery spike stacks. There are few times where it's optimal to cast fiery spike instead.

    AoE rotation:
    To start: AoE builder to 1 combo point - flame blitz x5
    Spam AoE builder and use flame blitz at 5 combo points.
    Use SoD on cooldown
    Use Dusk strike if energy allows

    *Once SL is released use 5 tactician instead of 5 bard, replace swift shot with empyrean bolt in your combo builder macro. Empyrean bolt > twilight force.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  2. #2
    Tuf
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    Missing Ebon Fury in your link. I went with it and was confused as to why Ebon Fury didnt work...

  3. #3
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Ah damn, I'd strip the point from buffing the enchantments.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Mayi just curious. Did you try just macroing Dusk strike and primal into a macro so primal just auto triggers when there is not enough energy for Dusk? It basically means little to no down time when clover or fervor is up (combo point wise) and you don't lose stacks from what I could tell on last night's raid.

    Second Twilight Force only costs 2 more energy than swift shot BUT does like 1093-1208 vs the 906-1002 damage of swift shot. why no Twilight force?

    lastly I was finding that just a combo point builder followed by a finisher did NOT alays refresh Spike on CD. the new rule is 1 combo point = 20% chance of refresh and it kicked my *** a few times.
    Last edited by Galibier; 10-18-2012 at 06:28 PM.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    How good is this? Got any parses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Mayi just curious. Did you try just macroing Dusk strike and primal into a macro so primal just auto triggers when there is not enough energy for Dusk? It basically means little to no down time when clover or fervor is up (combo point wise) and you don't lose stacks from what I could tell on last night's raid.
    I prefer 1 per rotation, it'll take longer to reach starvation. I like being able to control when I dusk, I've never tried macroing it and will test it out though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Second Twilight Force only costs 2 more energy than swift shot BUT does like 1093-1208 vs the 906-1002 damage of swift shot. why no Twilight force?
    Twilgiht force sucks. When you get access to Tactician empyrean bolt does almost as much damage and costs less energy. Overall twilight is less dps then empyrean bolt, not sure about swift but the energy cost is not worth it. Think of it this way, you'll do what, 150 extra damage every time you use twilight force but you'll also use less dusk strikes. NB is about energy management and I don't think twilight is worth it.

    Twilight only becomes good in pvp or soloing with the slothful debuff. The debuff does not work on pve bosses (can't be snared) so it's a no go there, I see it as a pvp/soloing only talent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    lastly I was finding that just a combo point builder followed by a finisher did NOT alays refresh Spike on CD. the new rule is 1 combo point = 20% chance of refresh and it kicked my *** a few times.
    A combo point followed by a finisher does not automatically reapply fiery yea, if the finisher is blazing strike or flame thrust. Blitz has a 100% chance to reapply fiery no matter how many combo points you use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    How good is this? Got any parses?
    Dummy raid buffed parse of 6k.
    Last edited by Mayi; 10-18-2012 at 07:05 PM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    JESUS FFFING CHRIST. Forget ALL the questions I asked Mayi.

    One thing, even without fervor and Clover you can pretty much get Dusk strik in every 4th or 5th combo point without too much of an issue. Other than optimizing point distribution this just flipped single target planted melee dps from BD to NB for me. Not by much mind you but it did. AoE BD is still better but damn Mayi. Good job.

    edit posted after dummy testing solo before you got back to me.

    Only one question. The Scorch and wither vs. 0 in enhanced weapons is probably the only thing that has me a little weirded out.
    Last edited by Galibier; 10-18-2012 at 07:12 PM.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    JESUS FFFING CHRIST. Forget ALL the questions I asked Mayi.

    One thing, even without fervor and Clover you can pretty much get Dusk strik in every 4th or 5th combo point without too much of an issue. Other than optimizing point distribution this just flipped single target planted melee dps from BD to NB for me. Not by much mind you but it did. AoE BD is still better but damn Mayi. Good job.

    edit posted after dummy testing solo before you got back to me.

    Only one question. The Scorch and wither vs. 0 in enhanced weapons is probably the only thing that has me a little weirded out.
    PvE mobs now have magic resistances, look at the ability like it's equivalent to ignoring 15% (or whatever the number is) armor but it's magic damage instead.

    Btw... It's equal to BD yea, but the damage buff sub 30% from nightstalker is multiplicative so it should parse higher.

    Before you write off the AoE, I found it's just as high as BD. Doing a single target rotation and using flame blitz as a finisher is enough to bring NB aoe damage (even though most is ST) to the same level as BD. It just doesn't come out on 3 targets but will in a true aoe situation.
    Last edited by Mayi; 10-18-2012 at 07:22 PM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  9. #9
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Okay I know some people who may believe in the KISS principle may come here. Mayi, let me know if I am off here. To make it KISS

    In short it's this. get 5 stacks of fiery spike ASAP. After that you can fit in a Dusk strike every 4-5 combo points without starvation and that is solo probably zero chance with raid buffs up.

    The reason you use the AoE finisher is this. While Blazing Strike and Flame thrust only have a 20% chance per combo point to refresh spike the AE finisher has a 100% chance. That is why it is there.

    it looks complicated but once the 5 stacks of spike are up the rotation boils down to...

    1,1,1,1,2,3,1,1,1,1,2,3,1,1,1,1,2,3, (3 being the ST damaging finishers, 2 being Dusk strike, 1 being macro builder)

    when you have to pop Scourge of Darkness every 30 seconds its

    1,1,1,1,2,4 (4 being SoD)
    1,5 (5 being the AE finisher) (maybe 1,1,5 solo)
    1,1,1,1,2,3 (back to same old same old)

    every 2 minutes it's just
    2,2,2,2,2,3
    2,2,2,2,2,3
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  10. #10
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    Don't put Dusk Strike into the same macro as Primal Strike. I tried it, but it still tries to use Dusk Strike all the time and it's just terrible.

    Also, don't have a fixed dusk strike rotation, keep an eye on your energy and use Dusk Strike as such, that your energy is always hovering in middle, not filling up completely, and not draining completely. You can, obviously, use more Dusk Strikes if Verse of Joy is up, so to maximise DPS you will want NOT to use Ebon Fury together with VoJ. And you'd try to have Ebon Fury up for the sub 30% HP phase of the boss, and have it fully run it's course to maximise dps. But wasn't able to do that in HK as the sub 30% phase was just too short ^^

    Twilight Force only gets used on disconnects anyways, in melee range, you'll only be alternating between Primal Strike and Dusk Strike, and you get to use it if you get disconnected on Ebon Fury. If you currently want to maximise melee dps you can leave it out and invest the point somewhere else.

    Also, I went only 1 point into Hellfire blades (did you notice first point gets you a 3% damage buff, second point only 2% to take you to 5%?), and put 3 points into Primal Strike, as it's your bread and butter melee attack.

    I'd also go 3 points into weapon enhancements, and leave Ignited weapons out so far (it's only your main and offhand weapon dps over 3s, and it's only a single stack). I'm pretty sure hellfire blades and smoldering blades amount to more mage. But I can be wrong, need to try it out.
    Last edited by Mandarb; 10-19-2012 at 12:36 AM.

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara
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    i barely keep 4k self buffed but with living energy with this spec.

    I followed your poiny distribution and rotation to the letter and km fully ID geared.
    World First Maelforge, Salvarola and Ultane.
    Officially quit!
    Props to my old guilds: eXile, Special Olympics, Exploit, Last Dawn

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    Just tested it out: Ignited Weapons is a dps gain against Enhanced Weapon Enhancements. On my 3 minute tries single target 100-120dps, and AoE 150dsp.

    There seems to be a dmg reduction on Ignited Weapons depending on how many targets you are hitting, though.

  13. #13
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    In fact, the description is wonky, Ignited weapons does not burn the target for 100% of your weapon damage, but rather a set amount of the damage of your finisher that caused it. A 6.6k Finisher caused 1.4k ignited weapon damage over 4s, while a 3.6k finisher only burned for 800dmg (just approximations so far).

    Which is why I, at first, assumed it wasn't going to be better. Obiously, since it's not just main+offhand weapon damage, it's better. And this also explains the fewer damage it dealt when used with Flame Blitz.
    Last edited by Mandarb; 10-19-2012 at 01:52 AM.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexTrickle View Post
    i barely keep 4k self buffed but with living energy with this spec.
    I followed your poiny distribution and rotation to the letter and km fully ID geared.
    That's odd, btw the points distribution is incorrect. Make sure you pick up ebon fury.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandarb View Post
    Just tested it out: Ignited Weapons is a dps gain against Enhanced Weapon Enhancements. On my 3 minute tries single target 100-120dps, and AoE 150dsp.

    There seems to be a dmg reduction on Ignited Weapons depending on how many targets you are hitting, though.
    Yea, the way I understand it (could be wrong) is any proced buff (murderous intent, headshot, etc...) is a multiplicative buff. So even though that 2nd point only gives you an extra 2% on the tooltip, that 2% does just as much as all 3 points in scorch and wither (about 2% of total damage).

    I checked and even though you use primal strike a lot it is best to not take those 3 points for dps. I'm just not sure where to take the last 3 points from this build:

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#wk99aGiGky/

    Eventide on a damage basis would seem to be best but I think the extra energy reduction on primal is worth it. My hunch is it's either Coup de Grace, Blazing Fury, Enhanced Weapon Enchantments, or blackout but am not sure.

    About the rotation - never energy starve yea. As soon as you start attacking less often your enchantment procs will plummet, they're based on the number of combat arts used, so it's a dps loss. Plus, make sure you dusk strike a lot before your first ebon fury so your stacks are built up.

    I'm still playing with the best way to regain energy in the build, but so far I've come up with using a 1 cp blazing strike before every normal 5cp blazing strike so regain some energy.

    P.S. - make sure you have ebon fury up for when you hit 30%.
    Last edited by Mayi; 10-19-2012 at 02:25 AM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    That's odd, btw the points distribution is incorrect. Make sure you pick up ebon fury.
    I picked up Ebon Fury- taking the 1 point out of improved weapon enchantments.

    I even followed your crazy Fiery Spike builder rotation with Flame Blitz and leading into the first SoD and ensured I had 5 stacks of Emptiness before using Ebon Fury. Only used Dusk Strike once per normal rotation (but kept 5 stacks up), never dropped 5 stacks of Fiery Spike and yet couldn't push past 4k.
    World First Maelforge, Salvarola and Ultane.
    Officially quit!
    Props to my old guilds: eXile, Special Olympics, Exploit, Last Dawn

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