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Thread: PvE Nightblade 1.7+

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    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Default PvE Nightblade 1.7+

    Since it looks like Nightblade is going to be a more commonly used spec in ID than we had previously supposed I decided it’s time for there to be an actual guide for it (aside from Hoko’s super outdated one). Once 1.8 releases this guide will be updated for any changes or adjustments that are needed.




    So Bloodstalker is higher ST DPS, and BD is higher AoE DPS, why would I even carry a Nightblade build to a raid?


    Nightblade has all kinds of nifty little goodies that make it absolutely worth carrying. Ranged attacks (something seriously lacking in BD), AoE’s that hit 9 mobs rather than 5, and personal survivability CD’s make Nightblade probably the most versatile DPS spec we have. Also it does put up pretty competitive ST and AoE DPS numbers. If you are one of those rogues that usually only runs MM, but you are thinking about picking up a melee spec, this is definitely your best choice. It's easy to learn, it does very good DPS, and has the survivability to allow you to learn melee mechanics without getting smoked.




    Aside from slightly lower DPS than more specialized specs are there any other drawbacks to Nightblade one should know about?


    Yes, the typical NB spec does not have an interrupt, gap closer, or AoE finisher. If you need those things there is a NB spec that can be used, or in reality you are probably better off looking here Gyle’s Advanced Guide to 51 Bladedancer.




    The Spec




    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M....iItRhqgRss.-5 (49NB/17sin)- This is THE spec. There is no Nightblade spec that I am aware of that even comes close to the ST DPS of this build. If you have a PVE Nightblade spec, this is what it should be.



    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...ItRGqgRss.c.-5 (51NB/12BD/3RS)- This is a spec that I and a few others have been playing around with for a while. It has a gap closer, an interrupt, and it actually does more AoE dps than both BD and 49NB. The drawback is that it is not as high ST. I play around with this build, but if I actually care what my numbers are I run 49NB every time.




    Macros




    Spam:
    #show Dusk to Dawn
    Suppressmacrofailures
    /cast dusk to dawn
    /cast puncture
    /cast dusk strike
    /cast twilight force
    /cast Fiery Chains
    /cast primal strike
    /cast Fiery Spike
    /cast Expose Weakness



    Ebon Fury:
    #show Ebon Fury
    Suppressmacrofailures
    /cast Dusk Strike
    /cast Ebon Fury
    /cast Twilight Force




    Fin:
    #show Scourge of Darkness
    Suppressmacrofailures
    /cast Scourge of Darkness
    /cast Blazing Strike
    /cast Flame Thrust



    AoE:
    #show Fiery Chains
    Suppressmacrofailures
    /cast Fiery Chains
    /cast Weapon Flare


    Note: For the finisher macro, if you are at range hitting the button just once wont activate flame thrust for some reason, just spam the crap out of it till you see yourself chuck a flaming axe.




    Rotation




    Ideally a fight should start off with Dark Malady >Fiery Spike > Spamx1 > Blazing Strike > Spam X2 > SoD.

    In general there is no actual “Rotation” for NB. Spam your macro, finish at 5 CP’s, use SoD whenever it is up while making sure to always have 5/5 Heat Retention up when you use it. Lingering Flame will keep Fiery Spike up without having to reapply.

    For weapon enchantments, you want Hellfire blades for sure. Smoldering is higher DPS than Assassin's Lethal Poison, but if you are the only melee rogue using Lethal will result in higher raid DPS.

    For AoE keep Fiery Spike up on one mob, spam your AoE macro to 5CP’s then finish with Blazing Strike on your Fiery Spike target. Use SoD on CD as well, keeping in mind to only use it with 5/5 HR.




    Gyle’s Tips and Tricks:





    Some people don’t macro SoD into their finisher macro. This is because using SoD at 5/5 HR is a significant DPS boost, so some like to be able to more easily control when they use it. The way i handle SoD timing is to put an extra Blazing Strike button on my bar and use it in lieu of the macro when I don’t want to activate SoD yet.




    Most of the time when you go to activate SoD you will already be at 5/5, if not you will probably be at 4/5, in that case just toss in a Fiery Spike. It will keep you from having to worry about refreshing it after SoD.



    You DO NOT have to refresh FS manually after SoD. If you get even one extra CP you should be able to use Blazing Strike before it drops off. In fact, even if you do not get that extra CP using Blazing Strike at 4cp’s to refresh it is better than using FS THEN Blazing Strike at 5CP’s.



    Your raid leader may not agree, but one nice thing about NB is that you can usually run with less resists than you can in other specs, since you have two defensive CD’s. One good example is Inwar. There is no reason to use any WR at all, just pop a CD when he casts Darktide.



    Dummy parses for NB are NOT accurate, remember that. NB picks up a significant amount of DPS when a mobs HP falls below 30%.



    You *SHOULD* be using a tablet with this spec. It is every bit as energy starved as Bloodstalker, especially if you put Expose Weakness in your spam macro.
    Last edited by Gyle; 04-25-2012 at 03:47 AM.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
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    Puncture does less damage than Dusk Strike, why is it above your macro?
    Gnarlwood - Belladonna - P50 Rogue
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  3. #3
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puandro View Post
    Puncture does less damage than Dusk Strike, why is it above your macro?
    There are a few reasons why i prefer it to be above Dusk. It does do less damage when a mob is under 30% but above 30% it does almost exactly the same amount of damage if not slightly more. The big benefit of having Puncture on top is that puncture gives 2 opportunities to proc trinkets and poisons. Also i like that it will get used during Ebon Fury to eat up some of that extra energy.

    If you prefer to put it below Dusk i wouldn't argue against it, but personally i think the double proc chance is worth keeping it on top. Ultimately the difference in DPS is pretty negligible one way or the other.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

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    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
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    It does a substantial less damage than Dusk Strike, even if all the DoTs Crit.
    The 1st tick always procs Heat Retention is something ive noticed, but with the ICD being 1 second i dont think it makes a difference, specially when even a proc of a poison isnt enough to push Puncture above Dusk Strike Damage.

    Anyways. Question.
    Lets say you are at 5/5 HR and do a BS. Then you hit Dusk + Puncture so you are at 5 CPs and 3/5 HR, do you....
    A) hit 2 more abilities than SoD
    B) hit BS than hit SoD when you get back to 5 CPs?
    Gnarlwood - Belladonna - P50 Rogue
    Seastone - Puandro - P24 Mage
    Im here for the PvE, not the unbalanced subpar PvP.
    Just Waiting...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puandro View Post
    It does a substantial less damage than Dusk Strike, even if all the DoTs Crit.
    The 1st tick always procs Heat Retention is something ive noticed, but with the ICD being 1 second i dont think it makes a difference, specially when even a proc of a poison isnt enough to push Puncture above Dusk Strike Damage.

    Anyways. Question.
    Lets say you are at 5/5 HR and do a BS. Then you hit Dusk + Puncture so you are at 5 CPs and 3/5 HR, do you....
    A) hit 2 more abilities than SoD
    B) hit BS than hit SoD when you get back to 5 CPs?
    C) hit 1 more ability to give you 4/5 heat retention stacks, the first dot tick of puncture will give you 5/5 a fraction of a second before you manage to use SoD as your next ability

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    C) hit 1 more ability to give you 4/5 heat retention stacks, the first dot tick of puncture will give you 5/5 a fraction of a second before you manage to use SoD as your next ability
    ^ This.

    If it were to line up instead with DtD and Dusk so you are truly at 3/5 i would BS and build back up. There are so many multi CP abilities in NB, and since you start every rotation with 1 CP already, you build to finishers very quickly. The likelihood that you will be back up to 5 CP's in 3 GCD's is quite good. It's worth delaying an SoD for a few seconds to get the +30% IMO, especially if the mob is under 30% HP.

    It would be nearly impossible to actually parse out the difference reliably though, at 3/5 it probably a push between what i said above and just using SoD without the HR buff. I always err on the side of getting to 5/5 though.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  7. #7
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post

    51NB/12BD/3RS[/COLOR])-

    Macros


    Spam:
    #show Dusk to Dawn
    Suppressmacrofailures
    /cast dusk to dawn
    /cast puncture
    /cast dusk strike
    /cast twilight force
    /cast Fiery Chains
    /cast primal strike
    /cast Fiery Spike
    /cast Expose Weakness
    Looks good, spec is what I do. However I noticed this about the 51 NB build. Twilight force > Dusk strike for 51NB builds in terms of damage.

    I'd order 51NB:
    twilight > dusk > puncture for 51
    Last edited by Mayi; 04-13-2012 at 03:58 PM.
    I rite a gooded guide for rouges.

    NB-Sin Guide - http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...-sin-spec.html

  8. #8
    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    C) hit 1 more ability to give you 4/5 heat retention stacks, the first dot tick of puncture will give you 5/5 a fraction of a second before you manage to use SoD as your next ability
    Incorrect, dusk + puncture + puncture dot nets me 3/5 not 4/5. So its 2 abilities for 5/5 before SoD not 1.
    Gnarlwood - Belladonna - P50 Rogue
    Seastone - Puandro - P24 Mage
    Im here for the PvE, not the unbalanced subpar PvP.
    Just Waiting...

  9. #9
    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    Looks good, spec is what I do. However I noticed this about the 51 NB build. Twilight force > Dusk strike for 51NB builds in terms of damage.

    I'd order 51NB:
    twilight > dusk > puncture for 51
    Twilight has always hit harder, but its 1 CP, not worth it.
    Gnarlwood - Belladonna - P50 Rogue
    Seastone - Puandro - P24 Mage
    Im here for the PvE, not the unbalanced subpar PvP.
    Just Waiting...

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    Personally I am not a fan of the extra builders at 5 combo points. I find it better dps to track the stacks/cooldown so that there is no time wasted with SoD out of cooldown but not used. Even a couple seconds average wasted time can easily result in one less SoD used in the fight and therefore a significant dps loss.

    I do this mainly with 3 things:
    1. Shifting the timing by doing Blazing at 5 combo points, followed by dusk strike, dusk to dawn or puncture and then use blazing strike at 3 combo points. Fiery spike refresh makes this pretty much dps neutral.
    2. Not using dusk strike/dusk to dawn/fiery chains in the rotation that builds into SoD if the previous finisher was with 5/5 stacks. Those 3 abilities are the ones that leave you at 4/5.
    3. Keeping my energy so low that I can afford a 1 second wait for SoD cooldown without regenerating to full.

    This doesn't always apply though like on grugonim where the timing is set by the encounter so squeezing those extra seconds won't materialize into extra dps.

    Personally I don't have fiery chains macroed into the builders at all except at the bottom as ranged ability. The extra combo points it gives come with an annoying delay and can easily be wasted if fiery chains is used when at 3 or 4 combo points already. So I use it manually after a finisher when I am at 0 or 1 combo points.

    You can also pay attention to the amount of builders you use between blazing strikes. Blazing - 2*builder - Blazing - 4*builder - Blazing is less dps than Blazing - 3 builders - Blazing - 3*builders - Blazing because you clip fiery spike with 1 second remaining to the next tick with 2 or 4 builders per rotation instead of refreshing it right after it ticks.

    I also have builder macros that have weapon flare instead of primal strike in them for cleaving fights. However if I am supposed to just burn the boss then I won't use them after SoD until the stacks are spent since it will ruin your single target dps.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puandro View Post
    Incorrect, dusk + puncture + puncture dot nets me 3/5 not 4/5. So its 2 abilities for 5/5 before SoD not 1.
    In your original question post you even correctly said that first tick of puncture dot gives a stack of heat retention. You have 1/5 from fiery spike (lingering flames), 2/5 from dusk strike, 3/5 from main puncture hit. Now you use one more builder to get you to 4/5. A fraction of a second before your global cooldown from using that is over the first tick of puncture hits and gives you 5/5.

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    If you need those things there is a NB spec that can be used, or in reality you are probably better off looking here Gyle’s Advanced Guide to 51 Bladedancer .
    This link is bugged. It should be:


  13. #13
    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    In your original question post you even correctly said that first tick of puncture dot gives a stack of heat retention. You have 1/5 from fiery spike (lingering flames), 2/5 from dusk strike, 3/5 from main puncture hit. Now you use one more builder to get you to 4/5. A fraction of a second before your global cooldown from using that is over the first tick of puncture hits and gives you 5/5.
    Fiery spike gives you a HR stack after a finisher?
    Gnarlwood - Belladonna - P50 Rogue
    Seastone - Puandro - P24 Mage
    Im here for the PvE, not the unbalanced subpar PvP.
    Just Waiting...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puandro View Post
    Fiery spike gives you a HR stack after a finisher?
    Yes it's exactly the same as if you had used a fiery spike yourself. It gives a HR stack, procs serrated blades and trinkets and so on.

  15. #15
    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    Yes it's exactly the same as if you had used a fiery spike yourself. It gives a HR stack, procs serrated blades and trinkets and so on.
    In this case wouldnt it be better to do an extra builder every time you do a Dusk Strike so your finishers always have 30% bonus?
    Gnarlwood - Belladonna - P50 Rogue
    Seastone - Puandro - P24 Mage
    Im here for the PvE, not the unbalanced subpar PvP.
    Just Waiting...

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