+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 43
Like Tree16Likes

Thread: Mage Tank Tricks

  1. #1
    Ascendant Shas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,496

    Cool Mage Tank Tricks


    Op selfheals + Absorb /sec done very easy.


    One of the most overlooked Tank mechanics in the game right now is Soothing Waters. It is an ogcd selfheal that consumes all your charge and is supposed to heal more for more charge consumed (not impressive either way).


    Clever use of game mechanics explained in 5 steps:


    1) Soothing Waters will consume an Eternal stack to drastically increase the healing done.

    2) You can 'spam' it with 1 charge, as long as you provide frequent Eternal Stacks + minimum Charge.
    Soothing will heal some 2k-8k on you. With the Eternal, it goes up to 60k-100l+ , no matter how much charge consumed.

    3) 61 Arbiter gives you Ebb and Flow which reduces your gcd for all abilities to 1 second. Both Frostkeeper and Stormcaller provide you with spamable instant Primary Bolts - effectively giving +50% absorb+selfheal potential from the gcd. Primary Bolts are the only source for Eternal Stacks.

    4) Soothing Waters reapplies your Frost Keeper Crystal Barrier- absorption with every use, - on whatever target you have it active.
    Soothing Water @self also applies Frostkeeper's Armor.
    That's potent self+splashheals aswell as two absorbs, +6% hp and -6% dmg taken - every second passively!
    Soothing Waters allow you for more Fk Armor+ Crystal Barrier casts /minute than a 61 Frostkeeper!

    5) The 63 Mastery Eldrich Swiftness splashes healing based on your healing done with Soothing Waters. (10m radius)
    . This can end up on 300k hps and acts as support heals like Justicar's Salvation.


    This gives you 2 bis Mage Tank builds for all situations. (have both available if possible)

    The Green Tank Full Tank with Chloro heals
    1) [Basic Version - good on any encounter]
    2) [Special BoS-support version]
    Spoiler!


    The FK Tank Max mitigation for Isiel
    [Bis mitigation MT/OT done easy]
    Spoiler!


    But what about Storm Front? All that Charge spam will not keep it up - Your Armor will softcap at around 84%. You EASILY reach that with T1-T2 dps gear; so the 30% Storm Front in reality does 1% armor at best. Test it.
    If you need it at very low gear, both Legendary Misdirect and Swirling Winds will provide 100 charge to apply it.
    Otherwise, all the passive heals+ absorbs/ sec are far more relyable.

    -> I am gladly changing or adding good ideas suggested!
    -> Many will know those things but over the time playing SFP i honestly have never seen any Magetank utilising Soothing Waters to it's potential.
    I stumbled upon it when tesing the Default Chloro version after Grooz mentioned op Thunder Shock heals. Casually tanking some itrop in late 2018, 2nd boss got pulled without a healer but with the trash. So T1 dps gear, no trinket vs 10 mobs (which sunder your armor)+ boss. In the need for even more selfheal, i tried Sooting and it was op af. The pull worked out like if it was all planned.

    Thanks to Grooz, Hungry, Tarfi, Eilicy and Sheey.

    brick*: A tank who just takes hits on max hp - even if max hp isn't needed and he could provide alot more./ A tank who thinks having alot of hp does the job by itself.
    Last edited by Shas; 01-17-2022 at 10:04 PM.
    And while you browse, read and find help - consider leaving a like.
    It doesn't mean anything but to the author.

  2. #2
    Plane Walker Learan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    410

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post

    Op selfheals + Absorb /sec done very easy.


    One of the most overlooked Tank mechanics in the game right now is Soothing Waters. It is an ogcd selfheal that consumes all your charge and is supposed to heal more for more charge consumed (not impressive either way).


    Clever use of game mechanics explained in 5 steps:


    1) Soothing Waters will consume an Eternal stack to drastically increase the healing done.

    2) You can spam it with 1 charge, as long as you provide frequent Eternal Stacks + minimum Charge.
    Soothing will heal some 2k-8k on you. With the Eternal, it goes up to 60k-100l+ , no matter how much charge consumed.

    3) 61 Arbiter gives you Ebb and Flow which reduces your gcd for all abilities to 1 second. Both Frostkeeper and Stormcaller provide you with spamable instant Primary Bolts. Primary Bolts are the only source for Eternal Stacks.

    4) Soothing Waters reapplys your Frost Keeper Crystal Barrier absoprion with every use, - on whatever target you have it active.

    5) The 63 Mastery Eldrich Swiftness splashes healing based on your healing done with Soothing Waters. (10m radius)


    (Justicars would absolutely kill for a combination like this)


    This gives you 2 bis Mage Tank builds for all situations. (have both available if possible)

    The Green Tank Full Tank with Chloro heals
    1) [Basic Version - good on any encounter]
    2) [Special BoS-support version]
    Spoiler!


    The FK Tank Max mitigation for Isiel
    [Bis mitigation MT/OT done easy]
    Spoiler!


    But what about Storm Front? All that Charge spam will not keep it up - Your Armor will softcap at around 84%. You EASILY reach that with T1-T2 dps gear; so the 30% Storm Front in reality does 1% armor at best. Test it.
    If you need it at very low gear, both Legendary Misdirect and Swirling Winds will provide 100 charge to apply it.

    -> I am gladly changing or adding any ideas suggested!
    -> Many will know those things but over the time playing SFP i honestly have never see any Magetank utilising Soothing Waters to it's potential.
    I stumbled upon it when tesing the Default Chloro version after Grooz mentioned op Thunder Shock heals. So casually tanking some itrop in late 2018, 2nd boss got pulled without a healer but with the trash. So T1 dps gear, no trinket vs 10 mobs + boss. In the need for even more selfheal i tried Sooting and it was op af. It worked out like if it was all planned.
    -> Replace 0Archon with 0MA on the FK Tank if you like playing with a Wand for whatever reason

    brick*: A tank who just takes hits on max hp - even if max hp isn't needet and he could provide alot more.

    Frosted is completely ****ed. Hail Blast increases dmg taken by all sources by 5% for 6 seconds. /Blackarrow
    Awesome guide.

    another option is 11MA/4FK. It gives you one of the best tank cds in game [Paths Rewritten] although not much else is offered other than run speed.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Shas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,496

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Learan View Post
    Awesome guide.

    another option is 11MA/4FK. It gives you one of the best tank cds in game [Paths Rewritten] although not much else is offered other than run speed.
    Due to it's questionable usefulness in action, i had addet a version of it on the bottom of Fk Tank.

    Cheers for the input.

    Was hoping to create something you can just copy paste to people.

    -> In that case, defenitly copy the link, not the text- since only then it updates mistakes&improvements ;D
    And while you browse, read and find help - consider leaving a like.
    It doesn't mean anything but to the author.

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    495

    Default

    Just wanted to mention 0 chloro and legendary radiant spores. It's great for generating threat and reducing damage taken. I just don't remember if they fixed the issue of having multiple radiant spores from different mages on the same target.

    I usually use this when tanking commander as ot. That and you can alter your guard with natural awareness. And every other stat affected by int.

    In regards to 11 Mystic Archer, Paths Rewritten is nice, 40% damage reduction every 30s, for 6s. But the other good part is Legendary Elemental Gifts for 5% reduced damage and 10% increased incoming healing. This is what I use. I don't think 4 points into Froskeeper is worth it because of the shield, I'd rather have the damage reduction from stewardship as well but since you can't get it, I go for chloro which does provide the damage reduction.
    In the wise words of my professor.. Did you read?

  5. #5
    Ascendant Shas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,496

    Default

    Thanks, Good call on the Radiant Spores

    One problem i see with the dmg taken from target:
    Heart Strike already gets the attention and is covered.
    You would need to keep it up on Vindicator and isiel. And even then it shouldn't affect the mines.

    (Same why 6Cabba for Justicar it's gud in 1st but not in 2nd phase)


    For Archer: I would only use it as a 3rd choice tbh. When aoe heal is solid and your ot is a Fk mage.

    Here is why

    From a healer's perspective, Different tanks have a different stress-level. Arbiter, 54Vk and Titan are a-tier for isiel, i saw alot more Arbiter with 11Ma suddenly dieing.
    There is something to it that makes them feel like paper.

    Maybe it's the mindset *having that extra cd at hand* that leads to wonkey cd management, not having it ready when needet.
    Arbiter with 11Archer frequently feel like Dungeon geared alts- they just always take so much damage. Dmg taken fluctuates way more on them and they love to not handle idle situations (2mines and cannon blast) well
    It would need to use Arcane Shot as primary bolt which may not hit the targets you want in a crowd.

    -> For it's dlc- and point cost, it does not bring what you need.

    If you can make it work for you, i'm super thankful for some 70 Arbiter pov's


    Hokh solotanked Isiel on Pseudotank (not even 31) with 5 stacks, long living adds, mines and all that. Main factor was the Crystalline smash- and Essence Strike- spam + using cds at the 2-3 situation he really needet them.

    Fk + Soothing is to recreate what makes Titan so strong.
    Some Arbiter already use 14Fk, but they barely apply the shield and the Fk armor. So technically not even there
    Last edited by Shas; 05-04-2020 at 05:39 PM.
    And while you browse, read and find help - consider leaving a like.
    It doesn't mean anything but to the author.

  6. #6
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    495

    Default

    I see what you mean. I know a few weeks ago I was arbiter/myster archer tank and was way more squishy than with fk. Crystal barrier is so underrated.. I had someone tell me last night that earthen barrier is the strongest.

    I've used the aoe heal variant, completely replaces a aoe healer.

    You make a good point with damge from target. Good on phase one, but kinda ****ty on second phase.
    In the wise words of my professor.. Did you read?

  7. #7
    Ascendant Shas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,496

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwidoes View Post
    I see what you mean. I know a few weeks ago I was arbiter/myster archer tank and was way more squishy than with fk. Crystal barrier is so underrated.. I had someone tell me last night that earthen barrier is the strongest.

    I've used the aoe heal variant, completely replaces a aoe healer.

    You make a good point with damge from target. Good on phase one, but kinda ****ty on second phase.
    2 things against Earthen Barrier:

    1) It has an igcd and *only* heals. Proper use of Soothing Waters already does the same/ more

    2) It takes 16 points, which means <61 on Arbiter which means 1.5sec gcd. this results in 33% less of everything.

    Running 14Fk alone is not enough. You have to manualy keep up Fk armor with Renewal and Barrier shields with Soothing.

    Being 100% afk is the only thing that goes for Earthen Barrier

    - With it's nsane tickrate of Crystal Barrier, you could even argue that Arbiter with Soothing spam (+ Intercept + Crystalline shield) does a better Frostkeeper job than 61 Frostkeeper.


    I wonder for how much Crystal Barrier absorbs in pvp (since absorbs are pure AP/SP and no eternal). Barrier+ Soothing might be a strong pocket *heal*. Since heals drip in rather wonkey, any mitigated damage is less heal needet.
    Fiji Waters - a crystal clear drinking experience. Vitalize. energize. No compromise.
    I think nobody uses the 5% phys dmg taken in pvp- MM Para and Sharknado are physical.

    wyt

    Try this macro btw

    #show Infuse Magic
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Swirling winds (legendary ofc)
    cast Infuse Magic
    cast Soothing Waters

    Press it as fast as you can. And check overhealing done.
    Last edited by Shas; 05-04-2020 at 05:54 PM.
    And while you browse, read and find help - consider leaving a like.
    It doesn't mean anything but to the author.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    168

    Default

    Very interesting, tbh I usually forget about soothing waters (good thing mage isn't my main haha), that's an interesting interaction.

    I find I'm squishier if I use the FK variant instead of the MA one. Having the legendary elemental gifts + paths rewritten has led me to more kills as main tank for my mage than others, although I still prefer to offtank and cover the aoe healing with a chloro variant. I think for me it's because more hp does not necessarily mean better survivability (my main is a rogue so I'm use to having a lot of cds but low health pool), cd management is my key to success, and that's what I tend to focus on for my builds (as long as I'm not lagging... mentally or literally haha).

    As for which barrier is better, I believe it's a playstyle thing. If you don't proc the crystal barrier then earthen is better, but if you proc the crystal barrier then crystal is better. You do have to go 16 points in frostkeeper to grab the earthen barrier, so depends on how much you like the gcd reduction and other effects of ebb and flow as to whether or not you believe it's worth it.
    May the frogue be with you.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Thanks for the guide, it remind me how to exploit Soothing Water.

    However, I found that the heal of Soothing Water can only apply Crystal Barrier but not Frostkeeper's Ward after a dummy test, it means that you cannot get the bonus shield and mitigation from your Frostkeeper's Amour. But I have very limited tanking experience(I'm suck at tanking) so don't know how this will impact MT/OT on Isiel.

    Since others mention about MA as off soul, I'm curious how will this work on real fight. 10% mitigation sustained(L. Radiant Spores can only affect 1 target) and an additional 40% mitigation with 30s cooldown. But it's disadvantage also obvious, almost zero healing ability, no HP boost.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Shas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,496

    Default

    Because only active Frostkeeper healing Applies Frostkeeper Armor.
    Legendary Earthen Renewal will apply it. The 6% mitigation will last 10 seconds and it takes you less than 10 seconds to get Renewal instant.

    To Stormcaller: The Bos Special- Green Tank runs it.
    To Legendary Radiant Spores: Talked about that with MrWideos just 2 posts above.

    Your version works. Just use Thunder Shock + Soothing and you have your heals. If it works great for you, add Thunder + Water, if you have sudden wipes here and there, try the other oned.
    They are not unkillable but the most versitile&relyable.

    I gave my opinion to MA earlyer but what you linked is a brick you surely can make work for you.

    As said before: Alot of use for the 14Fk offsoul on tank already. However, on the vast majority of pulls when Fk Armor and Crystal Barrier are buffed, they are never put to use. They are not buff&forget.

    As asomeone who also has to heal all those Tanks, There are Arbiter who never popp Frosted Ward in the whole fight, let alone Applying the absorbs. And when one does, it's a giant difference. This was the reason to post this.

    -> Fk is superior when used right. When the tank is not reliable to keep up Fk armor every 9 seconds, how reliable is he to manage active cds ;D
    Last edited by Shas; 05-06-2020 at 05:20 AM.
    And while you browse, read and find help - consider leaving a like.
    It doesn't mean anything but to the author.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    495

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    Because only active Frostkeeper healing Applies Frostkeeper Armor.
    Legendary Earthen Renewal will apply it. The 6% mitigation will last 10 seconds and it takes you less than 10 seconds to get Renewal instant.

    To Stormcaller: The Bos Special- Green Tank runs it.
    To Legendary Radiant Spores: Talked about that with MrWideos just 2 posts above.

    Your version works. Just use Thunder Shock + Soothing and you have your heals. If it works great for you, add Thunder + Water, if you have sudden wipes here and there, try the other oned.
    They are not unkillable but the most versitile&relyable.

    I gave my opinion to MA earlyer but what you linked is a brick you surely can make work for you.

    As said before: Alot of use for the 14Fk offsoul on tank already. However, on the vast majority of pulls when Fk Armor and Crystal Barrier are buffed, they are never put to use. They are not buff&forget.

    As asomeone who also has to heal all those Tanks, There are Arbiter who never popp Frosted Ward in the whole fight, let alone Applying the absorbs. And when one does, it's a giant difference. This was the reason to post this.

    -> Fk is superior when used right. When the tank is not reliable to keep up Fk armor every 9 seconds, how reliable is he to manage active cds ;D
    Usually I just spam Rime when ot on commander. even if you don't use soothing waters you can still proc frostkeepers ward and crystal with rime, and rime still does decent heals. It ticks for 150k+ each time with a stack on the tank.
    In the wise words of my professor.. Did you read?

  12. #12
    Plane Walker Learan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    410

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    2 things against Earthen Barrier:

    1) It has an igcd and *only* heals. Proper use of Soothing Waters already does the same/ more

    2) It takes 16 points, which means <61 on Arbiter which means 1.5sec gcd. this results in 33% less of everything.

    Running 14Fk alone is not enough. You have to manualy keep up Fk armor with Renewal and Barrier shields with Soothing.

    Being 100% afk is the only thing that goes for Earthen Barrier

    - With it's nsane tickrate of Crystal Barrier, you could even argue that Arbiter with Soothing spam (+ Intercept + Crystalline shield) does a better Frostkeeper job than 61 Frostkeeper.


    I wonder for how much Crystal Barrier absorbs in pvp (since absorbs are pure AP/SP and no eternal). Barrier+ Soothing might be a strong pocket *heal*. Since heals drip in rather wonkey, any mitigated damage is less heal needet.
    Fiji Waters - a crystal clear drinking experience. Vitalize. energize. No compromise.
    I think nobody uses the 5% phys dmg taken in pvp- MM Para and Sharknado are physical.

    wyt

    Try this macro btw

    #show Infuse Magic
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Swirling winds (legendary ofc)
    cast Infuse Magic
    cast Soothing Waters

    Press it as fast as you can. And check overhealing done.
    Keep in mind if you point into Misdirection its another full charge + charge potions.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Shas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,496

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Learan View Post
    Keep in mind if you point into Misdirection its another full charge + charge potions.
    Aye if you want to go the extra step

    Not a fan of Misdirection linking 10% dmg taken onto yourself for some cheap charge.
    Infuse drops too many Arbiter self cd's to be a viable exploit cd for pve Arbiter.

    That theoretical Fiji water hybrid for pvp could use it however to be unkillable for a while with little cd. (100 Soothing/ sec with 10meter splash heals etc)
    And while you browse, read and find help - consider leaving a like.
    It doesn't mean anything but to the author.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    One of the most overlooked Tank mechanics in the game right now is Soothing Waters.
    Just found something about Soothing Waters, change the original macro to "cast @self Soothing Waters" makes it proc Frostkeeper's Ward, that means you can passively keep 6% mitigation without L. Earthen Renewal and gain more intensive self-shielding.
    Last edited by Eilicy; 10-23-2020 at 09:53 AM.

  15. #15
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    10

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Eilicy View Post
    "cast @self Soothing Waters" makes it proc Frostkeeper's Ward
    I notice that 6% mitigation from Frostkeeper's Ward and We'll Get Through This! will replace each other(They don't stack).

    Since almost every group using Link-Chanter, the advantage of FK Tank are actually only self-shielding and 6% HP boost(of course it still works pretty well for me). Arbiter with MA actually have 10% more mitigation for Isiel(4% more without Link-Chanter). My FK Tank hits 845-870K HP in raid, MA Tank is about 820-840K, with or without the 6% HP boost actually is not a very big difference.

    Note: This spec is not recommended if you don’t have Mystic Archer dlc already. And both FK and Chloro tank are much better for off tank spot.
    Last edited by Eilicy; 02-05-2021 at 09:22 AM.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts