+ Reply to Thread
Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 157
Like Tree44Likes

Thread: New Warlock Guide

  1. #61
    Telaran Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    I am so confused right now and I have a pretty good idea why buy I be polite and will refrain.

    Are you saying that on a purely ST fight that 3/3 flesh rot will somehow cause the atrophy spell specifically to deal more dps than in a different spec with 1% higher SP?
    Atrophy GAINS dmg PER second, not just DOES damage but GAINS damage, meaning the longer BEFORE a refresh the harder it WILL HIT.

    If you scroll up and READ you can see the ~0.8% DPS gain from 3/3 OVER the ~0.5% you get from the extra 1% SP from 2/3 Flesh Rot, I spelled it all out, broke it all down, READ.

  2. #62
    RIFT Guide Writer NotTrev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,606

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Is that not what spam macros generally are? Something for lazy/new people who are more worried about maintaining the majority of the available DPS while being able to do other things since they're not comfortable/good yet with it?
    No, DB and NT in your macro actually ensures uptime without delaying them, which is a clear and easy dps gain over tracking both manually and making mistakes(dps loss).
    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I had NG at the end and people complained because they didn't want to add a button to their keybinds and they didn't want to have to move to use it so I put it where it is now, I recommend to all that you use your abilities outside of a macro to min/max, like with pretty much everything else.
    Yet you're guiding players to use a counter-productive macro. NG is better unused then used poorly on cooldown. Someone being too lazy or uncreative to figure out a keybind for it won't have the drive to min-max the spec anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    But, fight mechanics are much more important than a small DPS swing so for those not comfortable or good yet there are macros and the majority of the people seemed to prefer this one. The reason most gave is they kept forgetting NG or didn't want to worry about it and having it before Void Bolt guaranteed it up so they could just spread from there.
    You're not understanding. "A small dps swing" would be not using it in the very few instances it can prove to be a gain. Simply spamming it on cooldown is a clear and outright loss with severe repercussions. You should really attempt to use said macro and understand it before you endorse and defend it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Just curious, do you even know what your abilities do?? Since you didn't or cannot read the Atrophy description:
    <lots of bad conjecture and misinformation>
    First off, lets start with the basic stuff, because you clearly have trouble wrapping your head around Atrophy. First thing, I pointed out the one scenario 3/3FR shines, one additional gcd every 16secs when double dotting and only on the off target(you're still persisting and vbarr'ing every 20secs on your main target). Second, the one additional tick of necrosis you gain when you radiate is 2k damage x6 or 12k damage every 20seconds if you have 6 targets to radiate to. With seemingly 100% uptime on these 6 additional targets(which is what you would need to spam radiate and always get the last tick) you're looking at 12k/20secs or 600dps over not having that 1 tick of necrosis. Now, if you were in that scenario, you could definitely make a case for 3/3FR on radiate alone, but even Volan doesn't have that kind of uptime for Radiate. You're lucky if you have 30% uptime on 6additional targets, over the course of the entire fight, and then you would just be padding as you shouldn't be radiating on malignant broods(only malignant scions). At that rate, you're looking at 180dps vs the 1% sp you lose on all of those radiated dots and your ST over the second half of the fight.

    Now to Atrophy. I replied to you in another thread, where you were bashing the OP, on this topic. Might as well just copy paste it here.
    Quote Originally Posted by NotTrev View Post
    False. Go use atrophy on a dummy, in a controlled environment, you'll see you gain little to nothing from the timing in which you persist on Atrophy. If you're persisting 2seconds early, all that means is there are 2 additional seconds(another tick) between that persist and the next void barrage. I just did this for my own sake not 30mins ago, but I'll share with you.

    Non-contam/ed/sld Atrophy damage per tick(at around 6450sp, iirc):

    application(the tick you get directly after persist/vbarr) - 1057
    13 - 1215
    11 - 1374
    9 - 1532
    7 - 1691
    5 - 1850
    3 - 2008
    1 - 2167
    dot falls(wont see this tick unless you mess up) - 2325

    Do the math between those ticks and you'll see that they're all either 158 or 159(rounding issues) and typically alternating(until the two middle ticks). All you're doing is taking 158 off the back end of the last Atrophy(2167-2008) and getting it on the front end of the next, pre vbarr because every block from persist to persist is 20secs(unless you fail to vbarr *on* cd, which should be the exception not the rule).
    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Now that the foolishness has been corrected..

    P.S. If you guys did more testing, more math and more thinking and a little less talking and assuming you'd probably be better players.
    Ironic.

  3. #63
    Shield of Telara
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    703

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Atrophy GAINS dmg PER second, not just DOES damage but GAINS damage, meaning the longer BEFORE a refresh the harder it WILL HIT.

    If you scroll up and READ you can see the ~0.8% DPS gain from 3/3 OVER the ~0.5% you get from the extra 1% SP from 2/3 Flesh Rot, I spelled it all out, broke it all down, READ.
    I am able to read proficiently I assure you.

    Atrophy ticks once every 2 seconds, since we are talking about the pros/cons of 2/3 vs 3/3 we are talking about a 2 second window between ST refreshes, which means we are talking about 1 tick of atrophy.

    If you go 2/3 your necrosis lasts 14 seconds, which means you are refreshing at the 13 second mark, if you go 3/3 it lasts 16 seconds so you are refreshing at the 15 second mark.

    Atrophy in theory hits 9 times in 16 seconds including a 0 second damaging tick. This last hit will never occur in either build as it is realistically impossible to refresh consistently after the 0 second ticks have triggered without them falling off completely. This leaves us with 8 hits,an initial hit and then once every 2 seconds until the 1 second mark where we will refresh. in my gear score with contaminate toggled on, it starts out at 1110 damage, and increases by roughly 167 / tick with the last hit being the 1 second tick dealing 2276 damage.

    Since we will be using VBarrage on CD, you will refresh twice every 20 seconds no matter which path you choose. So your two options are refreshing at 13 / 7 seconds if you go 2/3, or at 15 / 5 seconds if you go 3/3.



    If you refresh at 15 seconds you get the 15 second tick which is the 2276 hit, but lose the 7 second hit during the next cycle, which would be the 1602 tick. Which means you net 674 damage every 20 seconds this way, or 33.7 dps. This 15 / 5 refresh cycle can only be achieved early in the fight, because once the mobs health drops below 50% you need to space out your refreshes more such that you can fit Death's Door into the refresh cycle. Once this spacing occurs, there is no difference between the refresh times in either the 2/3 or 3/3 build. So you will gain 33.7 atrophy dps for the first half, and zero dps increase for the second half for an average of 16.85 total dps.

    I am fairly certain that 1% extra SP to every ability (including also buffing atrophy dps) is worth more than 16.85 dps.

  4. #64
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    112

    Default

    Vexare, I believe you are right. Alyenn of Virus when did you become so rude and nasty, I remember you being a much nicer person and your guide is a good starting point thanks for the info.

  5. #65
    RIFT Guide Writer Allmightyone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,165

    Default

    You can't let atrophy get its 1sec tick in full single target because it would be a dps loss. That would create 15sec gaps between refresh meening you would only get 14-16 sec of ED buff to your dots, down from 20 with any of the 2 refreshing method. Draw the chart for that rotation and you'll understand why it's bad. Bellow 50%, if we are disregarding cooldowns, the 1% sp give a bigger gain then what the atrophy damage would give in the first 50%.

    3/3 flesh rot is strickly a slight aoe and multidotting gain.

  6. #66
    Rift Master sculti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    652

    Default

    Its funny because he uses so many numbers, examples and is so convincing, it seems like he has a clue but actually he really doesn't.
    sculzilla - cleric - 4/4 3/3 5/5 BoB: Greenscale/Akylios
    You Listening? You Hear That?
    Do Something. Do Something.

  7. #67
    yav
    yav is offline
    Soulwalker yav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Without the SL harbinger soul, should I invest the points in necro soul's death's calling (+10% death damage)? My gear is <T1.
    Yavin on Typhiria EU

  8. #68
    Ascendant radiomaryja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,478

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yav View Post
    Without the SL harbinger soul, should I invest the points in necro soul's death's calling (+10% death damage)? My gear is <T1.
    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#ell5iGEBak8/fgTA/G
    yes.

  9. #69
    Telaran Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yav View Post
    Without the SL harbinger soul, should I invest the points in necro soul's death's calling (+10% death damage)? My gear is <T1.
    What are your stats? Most of the time when someone doesn't have quite the right ratios to use 5 chloro instead of 6 harb they can still do rather well, just a bit less DPS where as 15 necro is a more significant loss usually.

    If you want to try it for yourself grab 61 lock / 15 necro go beat up a dummy for ~4 minutes about 4-5 times then do likewise with my 61 lock / 5 chloro / 10 necro and compare your results.

    Overall I would recommend the 5 chloro for a few reasons.

    1. If/when you do get SL souls and your ratios aren't appropriate for 5 Chloro but more suited for 6 Harb you can switch and not have any rotation differences.
    2. As you gear up 5 Chloro should scale better than 15 Necro, especially going towards T2 and with the introduction of Dream Orbs next patch.
    3. According to current stats on PTS and some theories floating about 5 Chloro may be the dominant build for everyone once Dream Orbs are introduced with the INT - SP ratio on them

    In the end the only 2 things that matter are how well your spec/gear can perform and how well you can play it.

    If you want to post your stats I could give a better recommendation, no consume / spec, otherwise give 'em a go, happy locking!

    P.S. If you are considering raiding frequently or looking to do progression I would highly advice grabbing the SL souls, you can get them with in-game plat via people in chat that will do the exchange or you can buy some rex with plat or buy them straight up with the patron discount, lots of ways to grab it and even if you don't plan to play Harb, although it's a great spec, the Harb soul as a sub-soul is fantastic for pretty much every spec we have.

  10. #70
    Telaran Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Allmightyone View Post
    You can't let atrophy get its 1sec tick in full single target because it would be a dps loss. That would create 15sec gaps between refresh meening you would only get 14-16 sec of ED buff to your dots, down from 20 with any of the 2 refreshing method. Draw the chart for that rotation and you'll understand why it's bad. Bellow 50%, if we are disregarding cooldowns, the 1% sp give a bigger gain then what the atrophy damage would give in the first 50%.

    3/3 flesh rot is strickly a slight aoe and multidotting gain.
    You have quite a few things correct here, such as during ED you won't wait 15sec to refresh because that means less ED up time which is a loss. During the round of dots you refresh early the 1% SP is a DPS gain, however, once refreshed before ED runs out there should be no reason to refresh sooner unless the refresh was done with Persist and a VB comes off CD during SL-D

    There are many situations in various fights and for progression sake you should always adapt your spec, I'm not saying 2/3 is always worse, just most of the time. Also, it lacks flexibility, 3/3 pulls ahead any time there is multidot or AOE situations which is far more bosses than isn't.

    Furthermore the big kicker here that many are overlooking are crits, I did a handful of parses with both 3/3 and 2/3 on a dummy, self buffed, no consume and only once did 2/3 pull ahead and it was just good RNG more than anything else. On some parses 3/3 barely pulled ahead and on others it was a rather noticeable difference.

    The reason I prefer 3/3 for even ST is the rotation I use allows for VB on CD as well as the DoTs going to 1s most of the time barring some mechanic that I will have to refresh sooner to prevent loss of DoTs or take advantage of a flaring or something like that.

    Sub 50% 2/3 is the better choice, that's a fairly obvious fact but again this is situational. There are indeed several fights that have very important burn phases sub 50% and for those fights you should use 2/3, however, there are just as many if not more that are the opposite, they have pre-50% burn phases not to mention this is also the time of flaring and for those fights or fights with more than 1 target 3/3 wins.

    So, in conclusion I do agree that 3/3 is NOT always the best solution BUT the better MAJORITY of the time it is. There aren't many fights that have post 50% burn phases AND only 1 target, but there are some and if your guild is progressing on them then you should do 2/3.

    Back to the crit part, if you're running 3/3 even on ST, for those times that you let your DoTs tick down to the 1s if atrophy is to crit it is a significant DPS increase, this isn't that rare beings my, yours should be as well, is above 25% which gives a 1 in 4 chance and though it may seem small this happens more than you'd think and yields a very nice gain.

    I would gladly share my parses with ACT on actual raid bosses but at this time my guild would prefer to keep them confidential at this time, that may change in the future, not sure.

    If I decide to start streaming publicly and the guild permits it I would open it up to the forum to see how things go, what I do, etc.

  11. #71
    Telaran Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost63b View Post
    Vexare, I believe you are right. Alyenn of Virus when did you become so rude and nasty, I remember you being a much nicer person and your guide is a good starting point thanks for the info.
    Vex's numbers are pretty and in a perfect world with a stand still and nuke fight with a sub 50% burn phase, no adds, no aoe, no multi-target of any kind - they would be correct. Reality is those numbers don't actually work on most fights, even in these such circumstances 61 Harb would probably be the best choice by a large margin UNLESS the sub 50% phase was long enough for DD to overcome Harb's EA & sustain to follow.

    Sorry to come off as a piss off, gets annoying to repeat myself, on a forum, where you can go back and re-read what was written since it obviously wasn't read the first time. Also, it's quite rude for people to half read something then hastily reply like an idiot stating/asking things that were previously answered.

    Otherwise I try to be as helpful & patient as possible, in-game more so than here.

  12. #72
    RIFT Guide Writer Allmightyone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,165

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    You have quite a few things correct here, such as during ED you won't wait 15sec to refresh because that means less ED up time which is a loss. During the round of dots you refresh early the 1% SP is a DPS gain, however, once refreshed before ED runs out there should be no reason to refresh sooner unless the refresh was done with Persist and a VB comes off CD during SL-D

    There are many situations in various fights and for progression sake you should always adapt your spec, I'm not saying 2/3 is always worse, just most of the time. Also, it lacks flexibility, 3/3 pulls ahead any time there is multidot or AOE situations which is far more bosses than isn't.

    Furthermore the big kicker here that many are overlooking are crits, I did a handful of parses with both 3/3 and 2/3 on a dummy, self buffed, no consume and only once did 2/3 pull ahead and it was just good RNG more than anything else. On some parses 3/3 barely pulled ahead and on others it was a rather noticeable difference.

    The reason I prefer 3/3 for even ST is the rotation I use allows for VB on CD as well as the DoTs going to 1s most of the time barring some mechanic that I will have to refresh sooner to prevent loss of DoTs or take advantage of a flaring or something like that.

    Sub 50% 2/3 is the better choice, that's a fairly obvious fact but again this is situational. There are indeed several fights that have very important burn phases sub 50% and for those fights you should use 2/3, however, there are just as many if not more that are the opposite, they have pre-50% burn phases not to mention this is also the time of flaring and for those fights or fights with more than 1 target 3/3 wins.

    So, in conclusion I do agree that 3/3 is NOT always the best solution BUT the better MAJORITY of the time it is. There aren't many fights that have post 50% burn phases AND only 1 target, but there are some and if your guild is progressing on them then you should do 2/3.

    Back to the crit part, if you're running 3/3 even on ST, for those times that you let your DoTs tick down to the 1s if atrophy is to crit it is a significant DPS increase, this isn't that rare beings my, yours should be as well, is above 25% which gives a 1 in 4 chance and though it may seem small this happens more than you'd think and yields a very nice gain.

    I would gladly share my parses with ACT on actual raid bosses but at this time my guild would prefer to keep them confidential at this time, that may change in the future, not sure.

    If I decide to start streaming publicly and the guild permits it I would open it up to the forum to see how things go, what I do, etc.
    Crit rng play no role whatsoever in determining a winner between 2/3 and 3/3 above 50%. Atrophy doesn't have a higher crit chance and if you're relying on it to push ahead it could really go either way which is how rng work. Void Barrage is always used on CD regardless of the build.

    If you refresh early while in ED, I do agree that this is necessary, you essentially take advantage of 2 out of the 3 possible 14sec atrophy hits. You do bring a good point though. It is better to do it that way if you play with 3/3. However, as slight as the difference is, it will not pull ahead of 2/3 on the dummy (unless the RNG gods favor you).

    2/3 is better single target.

    2/3 and 3/3 are arguably equaly useful in t2 raiding. Volan doesn't really make a difference (2m-2.5m of 2 target dotting vs 8m-9m of single target + Radiate doesn't use all 16s), Thraxx and Krizzix (if not Harb) are ST. Abom is the only boss that I would see 3/3 being a decent gain. Bottom line, go with your preference. It will only matter in forum PvP anyways.

  13. #73
    RIFT Guide Writer Allmightyone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,165

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Vex's numbers are pretty and in a perfect world with a stand still and nuke fight with a sub 50% burn phase, no adds, no aoe, no multi-target of any kind - they would be correct. Reality is those numbers don't actually work on most fights, even in these such circumstances 61 Harb would probably be the best choice by a large margin UNLESS the sub 50% phase was long enough for DD to overcome Harb's EA & sustain to follow.

    Sorry to come off as a piss off, gets annoying to repeat myself, on a forum, where you can go back and re-read what was written since it obviously wasn't read the first time. Also, it's quite rude for people to half read something then hastily reply like an idiot stating/asking things that were previously answered.

    Otherwise I try to be as helpful & patient as possible, in-game more so than here.
    You cleaned up pretty good. I like the new you much better.

  14. #74
    Ascendant meph1111's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,605

    Default

    I use 3/3 cuz I b lazy

  15. #75
    RIFT Guide Writer NotTrev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,606

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I would gladly share my parses with ACT on actual raid bosses but at this time my guild would prefer to keep them confidential at this time, that may change in the future, not sure.

    If I decide to start streaming publicly and the guild permits it I would open it up to the forum to see how things go, what I do, etc.
    What? Sorry, but if you haven't noticed 7 guilds have killed Abom already. The race is already over.

    This type of response is something you'd expect to hear from a multiple WF guild, in regards to the last boss of a tier, when that boss still hasn't be killed yet(for instance, Addition, pre Abom kill, if the topic was Abom related), not from a random forum goer in a presumably low tier guild(considering you haven't finished collecting the gear yet necessary to meet your chloro sub-soul requirements) about a Warlock rotation. You've been dodging ACT requests over your chloro-subsoul>harb-subsoul controversy, too.
    Last edited by NotTrev; 02-09-2014 at 06:02 PM.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts