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Thread: New Warlock Guide

  1. #136
    RIFT Guide Writer Allmightyone's Avatar
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    I must admit that I never read Val's guide. I did, however, read the Quick Warlock Guide and the comments to help me learn Warlock. I posted my guide once I thought I knew everything that I needed to know and had enought experience to answer any questions. At the end of the day what Webe said is correct. Multiple good guide for the same spec will be similar. That's why I took some extra time to work on the organisation and a good presentation so it would stand out.

    This OP took a different approach to stand out. Attacking every guide and contradicting known facts definatly worked despite being in poor taste and, for the most part, inaccurate.

  2. #137
    Telaran Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninalways View Post
    Warlock was changing and I knew that Val wasn't going to update her own so decided to write a new guide.
    I started writing a basic guide and testing lock around September trying to find the best spec, posting parses and thoughts on what was happening and what could be changed on the lock thread.

    Saw it as my chance to re-invent lock for those who didn't know how to play it, rotation, macro and other stuff.
    I had already done so with Druid and Purifier as they got changed, so it wasn't new for me to do that kind of guide.

    If the lock changes had come sooner, before the end of the contest I would have done a proper preset of it, I did contemplate pre-releasing before the change just to do that one more preset for mage.
    However I decided not to in the end.

    The guide didn't had min/max feel to it, at the start it was all about getting the new players to play it correctly rather then to do advance look at it.

    I was planning to post it as the update started on rift but forums came down too, so I had to wait for the forums to come back up so I could post it, spent 27mins after they came back up making sure it has the right look to it as a Quick Warlock Guide.


    Here's the original post of the guide if you want a look, and you can see sight differences to the current version I have now.
    Spoiler!
    You can find your original version if you made a change to it right after posting it, all you have to do it click the "Last edited by .................." link selecting the bottom 2 versions.



    I had this right up the top stating it wasn't the best guide around because I knew Val's was better than my own even though mine was up to date with the changes.

    Then your guide and that other guide got posted and they both fell into the category of being super lazy and lacking a host of information.

    So I couldn't keep that bit of what I always do in my guides, at the original posting of my guides, as it no longer applied to my own but towards your guide.

    ____________________________

    A guild's forum is normally private, so no one can but your guild can see it and no one else will know about it.

    Your original guide had like 6 specs to it having 0/3 - 3/3, harb and chloro and purge versions that weren't properly linked and just sent you back to 0/3.

    Move towards theorycrafting and stating chloro is the highest dps with no posted facts/parses/testing to make it believable.

    You macros are pretty much the same as they are now, and EVERYTHING under macros has been completely changed; it didn't as it does now look like any other good guide, excluding the boss bits as we didn't state anything on bosses.

    It was a bad rotation and bad facts not something that would think had came from "mine has been on guild forums since patch hit and the only thing changed is 2/3 to 3/3 Flesh Rot" and you haven't fixed your Sig to include who you are yet.

    Also you posted your guide a day later after mine, in fact it was 1st posted in the Mage Discussion section with possible different specs to use which I though was a great topic to talk about, then it came to the Mage Guides section and got forgotten because it wasn't that good.
    TLDR - Upon glancing over this rambling of poor grammar and bad spelling I noticed several incorrect statements, is this really a representation of Trinity? Some idiot who can't spell, has poor grammar and attempts to quote things that aren't even half true? Lol... My guide has always, ALWAYS, had 4 Specs, it was originally 2/3 flesh rot for chloro & harb variants then purge variants then I changed it to 3/3.

    Any & all changes made were in response to things I discovered in-game or things I received the most questions on in-game, originally I didn't feel like they needed to be included but after being asked a few times I decided to just include it.

  3. #138
    Telaran Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmarz View Post
    Ummm, what? your contradicting your guide now?



    The part about "or better" is exactly what Raziel's gear consists of... "better" , yet now you claim it to be a lesser spec? i dont understand.
    Do you read what you write? Just curious because it makes just about no sense. Chloro isn't a superior or inferior build it's an alternative when your gear meets a certain ratio in which it no longer is ideal for Harb.

    Raz has 6.6k SP and 2.7k INT in that SS so... 6.6 / 2.7 = 2.44 which is much higher than 2.2 which is the maximum amount at which Chloro is effective, the actual numbers or amount of gear has literally nothing to do with anything, it is about a ratio.

    Again, another person who needs to learn to read properly & think before they post.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Tired of seeing bad mages on this forum try to teach others how to be as bad as they are... Your specs are WRONG, just flat out wrong, sorry but they are and you're bad for not knowing that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Chloro isn't a superior or inferior build it's an alternative when your gear meets a certain ratio in which it no longer is ideal for Harb.

    In one post you clearly call the entire community bad for not using your spec, and then you backtrack and say that it is merely an alternative? Kind of like how you changed your mind about 3/3 vs 2/3 in ST dps, or maybe even changed your mind about 3/3 being so awesome because of the 1 extra hard tick of atrophy, and then later state that you are now liking 1/3 even though you lose yet another tick.

    Realistically the only thing we want to see or hear from you is any sort of evidence at all that chloro can be better than the harb variant, because my test clearly shows harb a winner even at gear ratios as low as 2.11, which is a low enough ratio that almost nobody qualifies for if they are gearing themselves properly.
    Last edited by vexare; 02-12-2014 at 01:24 AM.

  5. #140
    Telaran Aylen's Avatar
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    Default Parses

    Have been busy, my apologies for the later than intended post but it is here today as promised, I cut the parse length to 3 1/2 mins to allow for more parses. These are only self buffed, no consumes, 4 set T2 crystal.

    Harb Variant w/ 2/3 Flesh Rot - 16, 900 was the avg DPS, highest parse was 17,238, lowest was 16, 784

    Harb Variant w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot - 17, 200 was the avg DPS, highest parse was 17, 447 and lowest was 16, 831

    Chloro Variant w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot - 17, 500 was the avg dps, highest parse was 17, 629 and lowest was 17, 115

    Chloro Variant w/ 2/3 Flesh ROt - 17, 400 was the avg dps, highest parse was 17, 583 and lowest was 17, 167

    With my gear and INT - SP ratios Chloro w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot is my highest ST DPS pre-50% beings I cannot test this on a dummy, however, for the 1 fight that I will do this week with a sup 50% burn phase I will be using 2/3.

    For me the specs ranked as follows:

    Chloro w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot
    Chloro w/ 2/3 Flesh Rot -100 DPS
    Harb w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot -300 DPS
    Harb w/ 2/3 Flesh Rot -600 DPS

    Since I last did a block of parses my gear has changed a bit and I went from a 2.1 SP to 1 INT to a 2.2 to 1 ratio so Chloro & Harb are getting closer, as I stated before if/when I gain ~100-200 SP to 0 INT gain I will be going back to Harb as it will pull ahead.

    As a final test I put on same consumes Raz is using in his SS and my parse was 18,162 as chloro w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot at ~900 less SP.

  6. #141
    Telaran Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vexare View Post
    In one post you clearly call the entire community bad for not using your spec, and then you backtrack and say that it is merely an alternative? Kind of like how you changed your mind about 3/3 vs 2/3 in ST dps, or maybe even changed your mind about 3/3 being so awesome because of the 1 extra hard tick of atrophy, and then later state that you are now liking 1/3 even though you lose yet another tick.

    Realistically the only thing we want to see or hear from you is any sort of evidence at all that chloro can be better than the harb variant, because my test clearly shows harb a winner even at gear ratios as low as 2.11, which is a low enough ratio that almost nobody qualifies for if they are gearing themselves properly.
    I called 2-3 "guide writers" bad because for 1 all their guide was is a watered down version of val's, not hing new to offer. Second they had misinformation in them beyond just a spec, also it wasn't so much chloro vs harb as it was the ignoring of chloro altogether.

    1/3 Flesh Rot isn't better, it had some good RNG parses that were amazing then the rest were pretty weak so I didn't even include them in my list, just let it go as lucky RNG beings after the first 2-3 good parses the spec did another 6 that were well under 2/3 and 3/3.

    I'm here to theorycraft and try to find the most optimal ways to play the class now, for myself, for others, high & low end gear levels as well as future possibilities. Obviously it was a mistake to post a word here about any theory related ideas and I won't do so in the future.

  7. #142
    RIFT Guide Writer NotTrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    TLDR - Upon glancing over this rambling of poor grammar and bad spelling... ....is this really a representation of Trinity? Some idiot who can't spell, has poor grammar...
    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Do you read what you write?... ....needs to learn to read properly & think before they post.
    Is this what you've been reduced to? Repeatedly bashing players(players who may not speak English as their native tongue) while avoiding ANY form of direct debate on topics presented to you?

    Just so we're clear, closing your eyes, covering your ears and loudly repeating the same exact thing you've said since you created your guide is not engaging in debate or refuting said topics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Have been busy, my apologies for the later than intended post but it is here today as promised, I cut the parse length to 3 1/2 mins to allow for more parses. These are only self buffed, no consumes, 4 set T2 crystal.

    Harb Variant w/ 2/3 Flesh Rot - 16, 900 was the avg DPS, highest parse was 17,238, lowest was 16, 784

    Harb Variant w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot - 17, 200 was the avg DPS, highest parse was 17, 447 and lowest was 16, 831

    Chloro Variant w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot - 17, 500 was the avg dps, highest parse was 17, 629 and lowest was 17, 115

    Chloro Variant w/ 2/3 Flesh ROt - 17, 400 was the avg dps, highest parse was 17, 583 and lowest was 17, 167

    With my gear and INT - SP ratios Chloro w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot is my highest ST DPS pre-50% beings I cannot test this on a dummy, however, for the 1 fight that I will do this week with a sup 50% burn phase I will be using 2/3.

    For me the specs ranked as follows:

    Chloro w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot
    Chloro w/ 2/3 Flesh Rot -100 DPS
    Harb w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot -300 DPS
    Harb w/ 2/3 Flesh Rot -600 DPS

    Since I last did a block of parses my gear has changed a bit and I went from a 2.1 SP to 1 INT to a 2.2 to 1 ratio so Chloro & Harb are getting closer, as I stated before if/when I gain ~100-200 SP to 0 INT gain I will be going back to Harb as it will pull ahead.

    As a final test I put on same consumes Raz is using in his SS and my parse was 18,162 as chloro w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot at ~900 less SP.
    Quote Originally Posted by NotTrev View Post
    ...The fact that you can't see that simply testing the individual ability values is the safest and most accurate way to prove/disprove a sub-soul change is mindblowing. Vexare and I already showed you the differences between individual ability swings with each subsoul by just applying them to a dummy; no rng, no human error. Nothing to mess up. You're simply in denial, and your posting of a number of parses with rng and human error afflicting them won't change that.
    So, now that you've done exactly as I predicted you would(implementing RNG and human error into your testing), where are your ACT parses, so we can show you how you're doing it wrong(as already confirmed by multiple posters showing exactly contrary results to yours)?

  8. #143
    RIFT Guide Writer NotTrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I called 2-3 "guide writers" bad because for 1 all their guide was is a watered down version of val's.
    For the second time, they did actually improve upon Val's guide, as his didn't even have the proper opening rotation(much like your own), among other things missing(misrepresentation of NT[pre 2.5 even], lack of mention of refreshing NG with radiate, lack of mention of using NT/NG as fillers to avoid opp proc consumption, lack of detail on double/triple dotting, even a terrible [notactive] contam sc/dp macro that would block DP if you had ED up. etc. etc. etc.). Burning's and Heartbeat's guides had no more mistakes or instances missing information than Val's. I don't know what sense of fanboyism got you thinking Val's guide(or any guide for that matter) is perfect. Pretty pictures and a domain name does not change the information contained within.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I'm here to theorycraft and try to find the most optimal ways to play the class now, for myself, for others, high & low end gear levels as well as future possibilities. Obviously it was a mistake to post a word here about any theory related ideas and I won't do so in the future.
    The theory crafting was already done by 2.3. The introduction of a new subsoul was already tested and found to be ineffective on the pts long before this went live and any guide was made. Nothing has changed about lock, other than the need to put NT in our macro now, as it's a substantial dps gain rather than a more or less(and then, later, far less) dps neutral filler. Mistake is right.

  9. #144
    RIFT Guide Writer Allmightyone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotTrev View Post
    refreshing NG with radiate
    I guess you learn something everyday. Thx

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Have been busy, my apologies for the later than intended post but it is here today as promised, I cut the parse length to 3 1/2 mins to allow for more parses. These are only self buffed, no consumes, 4 set T2 crystal.

    Harb Variant w/ 2/3 Flesh Rot - 16, 900 was the avg DPS, highest parse was 17,238, lowest was 16, 784

    Harb Variant w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot - 17, 200 was the avg DPS, highest parse was 17, 447 and lowest was 16, 831

    Chloro Variant w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot - 17, 500 was the avg dps, highest parse was 17, 629 and lowest was 17, 115

    Chloro Variant w/ 2/3 Flesh ROt - 17, 400 was the avg dps, highest parse was 17, 583 and lowest was 17, 167

    With my gear and INT - SP ratios Chloro w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot is my highest ST DPS pre-50% beings I cannot test this on a dummy, however, for the 1 fight that I will do this week with a sup 50% burn phase I will be using 2/3.

    For me the specs ranked as follows:

    Chloro w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot
    Chloro w/ 2/3 Flesh Rot -100 DPS
    Harb w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot -300 DPS
    Harb w/ 2/3 Flesh Rot -600 DPS

    Since I last did a block of parses my gear has changed a bit and I went from a 2.1 SP to 1 INT to a 2.2 to 1 ratio so Chloro & Harb are getting closer, as I stated before if/when I gain ~100-200 SP to 0 INT gain I will be going back to Harb as it will pull ahead.

    As a final test I put on same consumes Raz is using in his SS and my parse was 18,162 as chloro w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot at ~900 less SP.
    Lol, this remind me of the first time I tried to copy my mom's signature on a grade school paper. This is a made up fantasy result and not what was asked. For future reference, when people ask for a parse they mean a ACT or in game meter breakdown screenshot of a 3+ minutes dummy parse.

    /WhatNotTrevSaid

  10. #145
    Plane Walker Jmarz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Do you read what you write? Just curious because it makes just about no sense. Chloro isn't a superior or inferior build it's an alternative when your gear meets a certain ratio in which it no longer is ideal for Harb.

    Raz has 6.6k SP and 2.7k INT in that SS so... 6.6 / 2.7 = 2.44 which is much higher than 2.2 which is the maximum amount at which Chloro is effective, the actual numbers or amount of gear has literally nothing to do with anything, it is about a ratio.

    Again, another person who needs to learn to read properly & think before they post.
    explain to me how a 2.44 ratio isnt better than a 2.2?

  11. #146
    Ascendant meph1111's Avatar
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    I parsed over 38k on gorlox doing ghosts and also I have 3 points in necrosis thingie gtf at me bro

  12. #147
    Plane Walker Jmarz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allmightyone View Post
    I guess you learn something everyday. Thx



    Lol, this remind me of the first time I tried to copy my mom's signature on a grade school paper. This is a made up fantasy result and not what was asked. For future reference, when people ask for a parse they mean a ACT or in game meter breakdown screenshot of a 3+ minutes dummy parse.

    /WhatNotTrevSaid
    pretty much hit the nail on the head there, weve all done the testing and proved with SS's that harb comes out ontop, then he changes his stance of it being the top dps spec, to an alternate spec. provided no real proof other than some numbers jotted down. damn give me 2 mins i can go make up some random numbers and make it look good to back my point.

  13. #148
    Rift Master sculti's Avatar
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    excactly happened what people predicted
    sculzilla - cleric - 4/4 3/3 5/5 BoB: Greenscale/Akylios
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    Do Something. Do Something.

  14. #149
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    Ok reversing my prior statement. After getting better with my WL harb does parse higher.
    Im finally cracking the 18k on dummies, yay!

    And one point wrt the theorycrafting in here. Its well and good that we have this perfect 1 minute rotation of ED/SLD/Con but who can really keep it up perfectly over a fight?
    Or even on a dummy. I know that i cant, but maybe im just really bad.
    I find myself clipping SLD quite often to apply persist with Contaminate instead. I also know its bad to hold vbar in too long but how bad is it really to keep it for 2-3sec so that it lines up with SLD/ED? Should be worth it because it should line up for the next time too right?
    killings - Mage - Apotheosys - Typhiria

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmarz View Post
    explain to me how a 2.44 ratio isnt better than a 2.2?
    In this case a low ratio is preferred. However once you account for the 480sp he gained from warlock armor, and powerstone his real ratio was 2.23, which while still in theory over what the 'stated ratios' should be, it is fairly close and should not have noticed a significant difference.



    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Have been busy, my apologies for the later than intended post but it is here today as promised, I cut the parse length to 3 1/2 mins to allow for more parses. These are only self buffed, no consumes, 4 set T2 crystal.

    Harb Variant w/ 2/3 Flesh Rot - 16, 900 was the avg DPS, highest parse was 17,238, lowest was 16, 784

    Harb Variant w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot - 17, 200 was the avg DPS, highest parse was 17, 447 and lowest was 16, 831

    Chloro Variant w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot - 17, 500 was the avg dps, highest parse was 17, 629 and lowest was 17, 115

    Chloro Variant w/ 2/3 Flesh ROt - 17, 400 was the avg dps, highest parse was 17, 583 and lowest was 17, 167

    With my gear and INT - SP ratios Chloro w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot is my highest ST DPS pre-50% beings I cannot test this on a dummy, however, for the 1 fight that I will do this week with a sup 50% burn phase I will be using 2/3.

    For me the specs ranked as follows:

    Chloro w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot
    Chloro w/ 2/3 Flesh Rot -100 DPS
    Harb w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot -300 DPS
    Harb w/ 2/3 Flesh Rot -600 DPS

    Since I last did a block of parses my gear has changed a bit and I went from a 2.1 SP to 1 INT to a 2.2 to 1 ratio so Chloro & Harb are getting closer, as I stated before if/when I gain ~100-200 SP to 0 INT gain I will be going back to Harb as it will pull ahead.

    As a final test I put on same consumes Raz is using in his SS and my parse was 18,162 as chloro w/ 3/3 Flesh Rot at ~900 less SP.
    There is no possible way that a 3/3 build will outparse a 2/3 build in a purely ST dummy fight unless it boils down to lucky crits. This has been proven so many times that it's actually rather humorous for you to say something to the contrary and only further adds to peoples skepticism of anything you say.

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