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Thread: 4.5 Defilerocle (Offensive Support Hybrid)

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2011


    Quote Originally Posted by Xethx View Post
    ^ This.

    The last pug bos run i was in: 6 clerics, 1 rogue, 2 mages, 1 war. Still full cleared. Don't worry so much about trying to get a spot because of yer class, so much as doing what you do, well.
    I think the mentality of being "good enough" is quite toxic. Some players only care about the full clear and lose sight of what was done like nerfs to BoS after over a year and the addition of more upgraded gear through essences and intel that allowed more combinations of groups to do well in that content. The content is nearly two years old. Lots of pugs have better gear than the initial release.

    Raid developers used top raid setups to develop raids, not the worse setups since they based most of their development around the top guilds which used the best in slot specs they have realized for that time. Over time and more gear progression and learning fight those top guilds figure out even better and more successful ways to clear content which can lead to more class or role alienation.

    You have to realize when players actually started raiding BoS many players didn't even have the final eternal yet, the intel for the accessories, upgraded to max level 15 fragments, full maxed out CP from essences etc. and still not fully upgraded T1 and so forth. My opinion is that chantion and NB/Sab were the biggest carriers and primalist to a lesser extent trivialized the content but in a way allowed clerics to participate in other roles besides tanking or wardocle.

    Keep in mind what you are experiencing is nearly 2-year content that has been nerfed and a player base that has been overgeared compared to the initial release. Put yourself in that position 2 years ago with 6 clerics and you could full clear but it wouldn't even remotely as easy with having a best in slot group.

    Full clearing BoS doesn't mean much to most raiders these days.It isn't even a standard of value for a class since the content is old. Their goals for the last year or so has been going for achievements in BoS, and topping the leaderboards either in game or player made. Those are the standards many players go by these days.

    No matter if its PvE or PvP, players will make a sport out of it which becomes a problem for those who roled clerics with new content. In fact, I would think because you had only 6 clerics step up to pug it is only because those players didn't really have a guild wanting them in the first place. Next time you join a pug or have to replace a player take notice of how many clerics ask if they can come. In my opinion, Clerics are overplayed because of ignorance but they are not the most wanted class so many of them get stranded only able to pug.

    New players usually choose them as mains because they don't think they need soul packs to heal, tank or dps yet in realization they actually need the most soul packs to be barely competitive or wanted of all the callings in end. Don't expect to get a 6 cleric team together to clear a new T3 raid in the given situation.. If you have a competitive guild they will want to make it as smooth as possible for the other 8 or 9 non clerics.

    Take for instance, a T3 raid comes out and you have 2 dps clerics instead of 2 dps rogues.. Even if you take the best cleric and best rogue parses you can see like +400DPS disparity and infinitely less AE. What if they created a boss that requires strong ST and AE to meet a dps check. I know now that rogue is far superior in that position so I would either one change to support which only one spot is available and usually taken or tank which is something that is usually delegated to long term mains and leads or tell them to replace me because I know they can easily down the boss if they had a rogue instead. That is why this idea of "being good enough", especially for content that is going on two years old is quite toxic and why every class should ask to be as competitive both in PvE and PvP with the best and not just settle for this mindshare that all a class needs to be is good enough to clear a certain content "eventually."
    Last edited by Aedynn; 07-09-2019 at 12:38 AM.

  2. #62
    Plane Walker Shas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012


    Most people who care about performance neglect Cleric, leaving the expected average human performance behind a cleric below average. (Not all) With 6 geared, active clerics, you quickly stumble upon onebutton shamans, 61 wardens, brick tanks and spam Inquisitors, not to mention Skiyes genius Cabbalist option.
    Fact is that the % of purely casual Clerics is high and theyr expectable numbers even lower than on other classes at the same gearlevel.

    You bring a Cleric bc you like the person, not for the class.

    Everything else is unreasonable expectations. And expectation leads to disapointment.
    Last edited by Shas; 07-11-2019 at 02:56 PM.

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