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Thread: What is the best Cleric DPS

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    Default What is the best Cleric DPS

    Hi everyone,

    I'm currently a lvl 70 Cleric trying a variety of builds but I can't seem to get competitive dps. I'll stop to say that I'm a mid-level 70, still working on eternal weapon and veteran vostigar gear upgrades. I want to move up into more content but I feel my dps is holding me back.

    I really enjoy my Shaman, but I'm not sure if its a competitive DPS build (with other specs) at this time. Does anyone have rotations / soul tree they want to share? I have also tried an inquisitor role but felt the Shaman was a tad better.

    I have read just about every post there is to read but most things are several years old. Looking for some current advice please. Also, if Shaman isn't competitive right now, what is the best cleric DPS? I'll try anything at this point lol

    Thank you!!

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    Rift Master Skiye's Avatar
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    Unfortunately shaman is about the most "1 size fits all" right now.

    The actual best DPS would be the 61 Inquisitor and 61 druid builds. Followed by Shaman and then the cabalist hybrids druid/cab and Defiler/cab.

    Shaman in most cases is absolutely competitive and super easy to play. You'll be fine most of the time of that's what you like to play.

    The most important thing to improve your DPS would be to finish your eternal weapon upgrade, and then work on your planar fragments.
    Last edited by Skiye; 08-30-2018 at 02:07 AM.

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    Hi I play Shaman/druid/oracle, its really great for lvling, I am lvl 67 so we shall see how it does later but for now I really like it.
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    Most of the other classes scale better with the gear accumulating over time than cleric. Partly due to its over reliance on CP to maximize its dps rather than just main stats and spell power. As for eternal weapon.. the impact is less felt with the changes to procs not effecting procs so they really no longer act as big fix for cleric damage like it use too. You won't see the big spike between top eternal and the second to last tier like you did prior to nerf.

    Top ST DPS for cleric is 61 Druid with a playability rating of very poor.
    Inquisitor is good range for the cleric with a playability rating of average to below average. Not many clerics I know care to play the spec outside certain situational fights with low to not much movement. Still viable on many fights.
    Shaman is used the most. It has an above average playability rating and DPS is good (enough.) Has competitive AE with other cleave options in other classes which is very useful in raid content. It is the most playable spec for the class however, inquisitor should be learn because many times going melee is not optional in certain raid set ups which makes inquisitor perform better.

    The only really good option for Clerics is to tank in justicar. It makes you the most viable in this class. Cleric is very much a tanking role than any other role in this expansion although they remain good enough for raiding in dps roles. If you want to be the most competitive in dps roles I suggest picking another class like rogue, or mage. Primalist if you want to invest in that class is also good. Very good overall class in the game. Admittedly OP as well. Warrior is decent as well but prefer the support options of the mage and bard over the rest. Cleric lacks in healing and/or support options comparable to other classes. Omnox trinket = ymmv. This can make you perform better than others in raids given some conditions.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 08-30-2018 at 11:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    Cleric lacks in healing and/or support options comparable to other classes.
    Wardocle is a decent Tactbard replacement and Defileroracle pulls way better DPS than any Bard-based support the rogues can come up with. Not too bad ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xly View Post
    Wardocle is a decent Tactbard replacement and Defileroracle pulls way better DPS than any Bard-based support the rogues can come up with. Not too bad ;)
    Rare occasion where you see tact/bard vs. wardocle after nerfs. Absolutely crushed. If you want to watch the video PM me.
    https://ibb.co/b7oYCz

    DPS Bard can bring good healing and dps all in one spec because bard is OP. However, it may not be better overall dps unless you do a hybrid with MM/Ranger... Most rogues don't need to learn how to play DPS bard.. because it is quite pointless. And DPS oracle isn't really needed with primalist providing the same buff with conflagrate or even better your cleric tank.

    The proc from geyser is no longer being buffed by eternal weapon so wardocle was hit hard with nerf, and the frequency of healing was pathetic in wardocle already. It has the lowest effective healing. Tact/bard can even compete with a full blown warden(which also got nerfed if you used geyser) on AE healing which gets crushed by most other classes AE healing in Effective healing because it is so slow. They also nerfed the damage of sign of wrath with whatever changes they made to buffs and procs. Punitive as it may sound but they nerfed both its dps and healing output. Maybe you can ask in live stream why they nerfed a spec that was already underperforming on two fronts especially with it being a soul from a soul pack that gets very little play as is.

    The devs make cleric have very slow healing output, but it has big numbers that get register as over healing. This is why you see wardens have big over healing numbers which has been championed for far too long. Once those who swore that warden was OP were placed against other AE healing and hybrid healing souls they realized how wrong they were. They realize they were no longer competitive even though overhealing was high. They destroyed cleric as a healer in this expansion for most competitive purposes both in healing and support.

    Wardocle is usually used just for being the cleanse bot and to pad healing nowadays. They bring a rez as well and it is much better to make your cleric play it rather than a tact/bard if your lacking dps. Also, last expansion they nerfed absorb shields and puri became even less effective as well. So they don't even have a place in this expansion for competitive shielding/healing vs the frequency of the other ST healers and their melding of both healing and shielding together. Basically a solo shielding spec, especially one that plays terrible like puri, is really unwanted. They can't dps as well as other ST healers. There is much wrong with it including that sacrifice life to regen mana and its high resource management.

    Healing is really competitive.. with chloro, farseer, tact/bard, lib etc. Some say farseer is the best for AE healing now but chloro does hybrid well with dps and still remains competitive in healing. You do lose utility like cleanses etc.. Cleric has a bunch of terrible options on that front.

    When they balance towards the high end like they did with the recent nerfs roles like oracle/defiler and warden/oracle were pushed out because of being less competitive on the meter. Right now you can be in a party that either fails horribly to even do the first boss in BoS because of specs and gear or you can 9 man the first and even second boss with an incredible party setup. Basically when raids are easier to complete there is more player options available. The more Trion rebalances toward the high end however, the less viable classes and specs become.

    Not many players will realize how much they nerfed cleric with the eternal and buffs reworked because the devs did not post complete data telling them what skills they nerfed. They basically said go test and figure it all out for yourself. They were the most stealth nerfed class with the recent changes. They were not really that competitive in this expansion so it goes to show that they really don't follow the same values for all classes. They will even nerf the worse performing class in those roles in this expansion and write it off as a bug fix.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 08-31-2018 at 04:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skiye View Post
    Unfortunately shaman is about the most "1 size fits all" right now.

    The actual best DPS would be the 61 Inquisitor and 61 druid builds. Followed by Shaman and then the cabalist hybrids druid/cab and Defiler/cab.

    Shaman in most cases is absolutely competitive and super easy to play. You'll be fine most of the time of that's what you like to play.

    The most important thing to improve your DPS would be to finish your eternal weapon upgrade, and then work on your planar fragments.
    Thanks. I must not have the most efficient rotation or something.

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    Prophet of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    Rare occasion where you see tact/bard vs. wardocle after nerfs. Absolutely crushed. If you want to watch the video PM me.
    https://ibb.co/b7oYCz

    DPS Bard can bring good healing and dps all in one spec because bard is OP. However, it may not be better overall dps unless you do a hybrid with MM/Ranger... Most rogues don't need to learn how to play DPS bard.. because it is quite pointless. And DPS oracle isn't really needed with primalist providing the same buff with conflagrate or even better your cleric tank.

    The proc from geyser is no longer being buffed by eternal weapon so wardocle was hit hard with nerf, and the frequency of healing was pathetic in wardocle already. It has the lowest effective healing. Tact/bard can even compete with a full blown warden(which also got nerfed if you used geyser) on AE healing which gets crushed by most other classes AE healing in Effective healing because it is so slow. They also nerfed the damage of sign of wrath with whatever changes they made to buffs and procs. Punitive as it may sound but they nerfed both its dps and healing output. Maybe you can ask in live stream why they nerfed a spec that was already underperforming on two fronts especially with it being a soul from a soul pack that gets very little play as is.

    The devs make cleric have very slow healing output, but it has big numbers that get register as over healing. This is why you see wardens have big over healing numbers which has been championed for far too long. Once those who swore that warden was OP were placed against other AE healing and hybrid healing souls they realized how wrong they were. They realize they were no longer competitive even though overhealing was high. They destroyed cleric as a healer in this expansion for most competitive purposes both in healing and support.

    Wardocle is usually used just for being the cleanse bot and to pad healing nowadays. They bring a rez as well and it is much better to make your cleric play it rather than a tact/bard if your lacking dps. Also, last expansion they nerfed absorb shields and puri became even less effective as well. So they don't even have a place in this expansion for competitive shielding/healing vs the frequency of the other ST healers and their melding of both healing and shielding together. Basically a solo shielding spec, especially one that plays terrible like puri, is really unwanted. They can't dps as well as other ST healers. There is much wrong with it including that sacrifice life to regen mana and its high resource management.

    Healing is really competitive.. with chloro, farseer, tact/bard, lib etc. Some say farseer is the best for AE healing now but chloro does hybrid well with dps and still remains competitive in healing. You do lose utility like cleanses etc.. Cleric has a bunch of terrible options on that front.

    When they balance towards the high end like they did with the recent nerfs roles like oracle/defiler and warden/oracle were pushed out because of being less competitive on the meter. Right now you can be in a party that either fails horribly to even do the first boss in BoS because of specs and gear or you can 9 man the first and even second boss with an incredible party setup. Basically when raids are easier to complete there is more player options available. The more Trion rebalances toward the high end however, the less viable classes and specs become.

    Not many players will realize how much they nerfed cleric with the eternal and buffs reworked because the devs did not post complete data telling them what skills they nerfed. They basically said go test and figure it all out for yourself. They were the most stealth nerfed class with the recent changes. They were not really that competitive in this expansion so it goes to show that they really don't follow the same values for all classes. They will even nerf the worse performing class in those roles in this expansion and write it off as a bug fix.
    All this would be relevant, if AoE healing was important atm, which it's not. Is the raid dieing to AoE dmg? No, so why compare AoE healing? Soloeing first boss would be a challenge for someone inexperienced. I wouldn't do it if I was undergeared, but then again I wouldn't trust another healer to do it if they were also undergeared.

    With wardocle its about the buffs. It offers better buffs and utility than tactbard, so of course it's a nice addition. Tactbard will give more damage, but I don't know if Marshaled favour would alleviate this loss in damage, I couldn't possibly test that.

    I might change my opinion when GSB is released, but for BoS, wardocle works very nicely unless you don't use any AoE healer. I've not seen it, but I wasn't sure if you meant this when you said 9 manned?
    Last edited by Refuge; 09-02-2018 at 03:48 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    All this would be relevant, if AoE healing was important atm, which it's not. Is the raid dieing to AoE dmg? No, so why compare AoE healing? Soloeing first boss would be a challenge for someone inexperienced. I wouldn't do it if I was undergeared, but then again I wouldn't trust another healer to do it if they were also undergeared.
    It is always important to be competitive no matter what time or place. You are saying balance is not important which is wrong. If the content is easy for your team you can bring someone in level 0 fragments and naked with no eternal upgrade as a carry. Does that make this person viable to raid? This is by far the most ..... thing I have ever heard. And you are essentially saying that. You are extending that possibility for everyone. Since you can 9 man content that means the person who is fresh level 70 is END GAME RAID VIABLE so it doesn't matter! That is illogical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    With wardocle its about the buffs. It offers better buffs and utility than tactbard, so of course it's a nice addition. Tactbard will give more damage, but I don't know if Marshaled favour would alleviate this loss in damage, I couldn't possibly test that.
    Can you list the essential buffs that wardocle brings that Tact/bard can't? In my opinion actually it is reverse. The shielding is pathetic and was never scaled correctly for this expansion but besides that I don't know what you are talking about, especially when you say these sort of buffs are not important. What buffs are important that they bring that tact/bard doesn't?

    To be honest you seem to not know as much about balance or classes. It has been more than a few times you have been saying stuff that makes no sense at all...in my opinion. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...ZIS--ig8U/edit

    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    I might change my opinion when GSB is released, but for BoS, wardocle works very nicely unless you don't use any AoE healer. I've not seen it, but I wasn't sure if you meant this when you said 9 manned?
    Phys/bard, tact/bard and Chantion already basically destroyed cleric healers in the last few raids. IROTP, NTD, and BoS. Let us wait for IGSB to come out for the devs to relive the mistake for the 4th time. that is smart right? When you repeat the mistake more than a few times it is basically being done on purpose.

    Do you want to know the reason why I always recommended rogue and mages to new players and pretty much disregarded anyone who recommends cleric? Because I am actually legitly making the game survive by making sure players actually get the best out of their investment. Cleric is a load of buyer's remorse. No point in recommending a class that is barely viable in a competitive level. That is just doing a great disservice to players and I feel I am doing a good deed by pointing out the flaws of what I consider the worse class in end game content and the least competitive class. "Good enough" does not equal competitive and unless Trion removes achievements, leaderboards, and bans ACT or DPS/HPS meters this game will always be a competitive game more so than anything else(at least for raiding and PvP.) Ohh and by the way they even hold contest for who has the best dimensions.. Making even that feature a competition. Maybe they should stop making their game a competition and every raid into an instant adventure. Then it wouldn't really matter who to bring to raid. AMIRIGHT? And even then people would still want to make a competition out who can clear bosses the fastest.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 09-03-2018 at 05:59 PM.

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    ".... a risk assessment is the combination effort of 1. identifying and analyzing potential (future) events that may negatively impact individuals, assets, and/or the environment (i.e., risk analysis); and 2. making judgements "on the tolerability of the risk on the basis of a risk analysis" while considering influencing factors (i.e., risk evaluation). Put in simpler terms, a risk assessment analyzes what can go wrong, how likely it is to happen, what the potential consequences are, and how tolerable the identified risk is. As part of this process, the resulting determination of risk may be expressed in a quantitative or qualitative fashion. The risk assessment plays an inherent part of an overall risk management strategy, which attempts to, after a risk assessment, "introduce control measures to eliminate or reduce" any potential risk-related consequences." -wiki

    This is integral for any business decision. Waiting for the mistake to happen and not putting any preventative measures in place is unacceptable and the reason why a business bleeds opportunity and value.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 09-02-2018 at 10:04 PM.

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    Personally, I prefer a wardocle over a tacbard because the rogue does more or equal ST damage while still distributing passive cleave damage. As already mentioned clerics are currently best used in support or tank role because all other DD classes are simply better.

    For soloheals for Azranel I would probably prefer a tacbard because it produces more hps than a wardocle, but may also be that I'm wrong here I haven't seen many wardocles after 4.5

    Wardocle + healarcho + healtank is at least a good combination because the wardocle pushes the healing of the others.
    Last edited by Bamul; 09-03-2018 at 03:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    To be honest you seem to not know much about balance or classes.
    It's so tempting to counter your personal statement with one back, but I'll withdraw. You might know your stuff, but there's still so much wrong with what you say I would firstly take too long on the matter, and secondly probably get banned.

    Instead I'm trying to keep things decent. And to say I don't know my class was a silly move by yourself considering you don't know anything about me and my worth in game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    It is always important to be competitive no matter what time or place.
    I disagree. We only compare things that are important. I.e. dps, AoE dmg potential, buffs potential, durability as a tank. No one cares for AoE healing competitively, because it doesn't matter in the current raid climate. No one legimitately looks at prancing turtle and says "that cleric must be bad" due to low healing, but we definitely do compare the time it takes to kill. Mainly because all AoE healing is overtuned anyway. Do you seriously spend time comparing healing meters when it's never an issue? This is Rift right?

    Maybe we should compare our kiting and cc ability? Let's make a fuss about that? Oh wait, no one does, because it's irrelevant in game. Let's compare achievement points? Oh wait, no one cares. You get my point.

    I understand I'm refering to BoS mostly, and not fresh 70's to IROTP etc. but we all did those instances with 2 AoE healers and we took it safe. The enrage timer wasn't an issue. It may come to be an issue with GSB, but who says we have to stick with these hybrid specs which were never intended in the first place? Does tact/bard do more than pure warden?


    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    Can you list the essential buffs that wardocle brings that Tact/bard can't?
    If this is what made you make the comment about not knowing much about classes, then that's interesting to say before I've even had the chance to reply. Admittedly I said utility, which I shouldn't have as bard also has 2 AoE cleanses and AoE debuffs. I'm sure we can both agree bard and oracle are pretty much identical, so the argument becomes what is accessible in the other tree, and what abilities are accessible with limited point spend.

    The buff I was referring to was Marshalled Favor as mentioned in my original post. I was under the impression Rogues didn't go down far enough in their tree to gain Anthem of Fervor? Am I wrong about Tactbards only going 40 in? Or are there newer specs that go 48 in?

    The question is, is Battle Remote better or worse than this trade-off.

    AoE shielding is more or less AoE healing, again, it serves no purpose when keeping people alive adds nothing competitively when any AoE healing class can do that anyway.



    I've already seen this. I haven't done the tests myself yet, but I can't rely on one screenshot. Seems low for a cleric wardocle considering I've happily soloed first boss on BoS with it. 50k would make that extremely difficult. What were the conditions of this test? I will keep an eye on this in future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    Do you want to know the reason why I always recommended rogue and mages to new players and pretty much disregarded anyone who recommends cleric? Because I am actually legitly making the game survive by making sure players actually get the best out of their investment.
    Making the game survive by slamming Trion every possible chance you get. You having a laugh? What just boggles me the most is your sheer ignorance to how Trion is functioning atm. It was a year since we had any kind of balance change, and then the warrior patch comes, which didn't address anything except for Prime.

    I know it isn't perfect by a long stretch of the imagination, but I'm also a realist. Clerics are not game breaking atm, and they're doing very well in Prime. Remember they share the same build, and they're clearly prioritizing prime. Legendaries are the only thing they can hit, and the new guy is being very slow with this process, with lots of mistakes. So for me it's the least of my concern with such little resources they have. I probably would simply prefer more content to begin with. You're constantly slamming the game and clerics, telling new players to not play a certain class because Trion are bad. In this case, all over healing meters. I mean really, and you want it to survive, what a hell of a contradiction.
    Last edited by Refuge; 09-03-2018 at 10:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    The buff I was referring to was Marshalled Favor as mentioned in my original post. I was under the impression Rogues didn't go down far enough in their tree to gain Anthem of Fervor? Am I wrong about Tactbards only going 40 in? Or are there newer specs that go 48 in?

    The question is, is Battle Remote better or worse than this trade-off.
    Not gonna get in your pissing contest, but the reason for 36 tact (nowadays) is the combat rez, not curative remote anymore.

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    Not even worth it but I will argue that I am one of the players who look at balance being imperative no matter what. You can just look up farseer in PvP for instance. What about double dipping healers in early SL? It may not mean much to some players who cherry pick special fights where they are more useful yet not the best in slot but it is not true for every player in every situation. Just saying that is awkward.

    I don't want them to nerf classes but as they have said most recently they rather go down than up. That is some new rule they are living by these days. Who knows what other ruleset they will create on the fly later on? Never really heard about this new rule until after everyone was mostly nerfed. Technically there seems to be exclusions to the rule. Maybe they are trying to get the math right on their end with bug fixes irregardless of how it may effect balance then fix balance? Even though I don't like bandaid fixes I would think it would be worth keeping the bandaid on until the wound is mostly healed. In this case I think they just ripped it off before the wound was healed. And if they keep rotating developers like this they will see something is wrong easily on their end and when they fix it, it will cause the imbalance to show again.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 09-03-2018 at 10:35 PM.

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    Wardocle needs to be competitive on the meters as well. There will be a point where the competing healer is up over double your HPS as I have posted and you will get accused of being a bad healer. That is as plain and simple as it gets. They won't understand that wardocle needs 0 competition in a raid for its healing to shine because it can't compete with other AE hybrids.. not chloro hybrids, not support healing hybrids. Nothing.

    The problem is that you have players who sand box themselves, like overhealers that still championed overhealing numbers because they never competed with other healers on the meters. Now when it comes to raiding you have raid leaders who actually think warden, wardocle should be worthy competition to other healers and accuse you of not being the number 1 on charts because they don't understand how healing frequency is just as important as big heals.

    So you have these players who are spreading misinformation and I am just correcting them. So they get mad. I even post screen shots and they get mad. You can't say wadocle is just like bard/tact. .. It isn't. Tact/bard absolutely destroys wardocle on the healing meters when they compete. Now to defend this you say I meant... they bring more buffs..

    If you are not good on the meter you are mostly disregarded just because most players are just as ignorant about each others classes and they think as these players do that for some reason that souls like warden and wardocle are competitive with other classes variants. They are not on the meter when competing. They are good when they have 0 competition in some situations. Worse than others but still "good enough" for some content. If you have a bad raider who says they didn't get heals and the derp leader looks at your healing input they can get others to agree that it's your fault because you are doing less than half of the other players healing. Even though in general they are wrong for saying it's your fault because they don't understand how healing input works.

    Trust me you don't want to play in a class where they can point the finger at you all the time because they failed to balance healing in this way. And that is doing a good deed by warning players of that. You may not consider it good for Trion but it is definitely good for the players who actually take that advice. I am definitely helping Rift more by reducing the impact of imbalance that they haven't fixed for years. Telling players to go play anything that they want.. it doesn't matter is not. You are implying they will eventually fix something that hasn't been fixed in years. I am implying they haven't fixed something in years so may as well give yourself the best advantage by playing something else. I don't see anything wrong about what I said. Making players feel they have chosen the better class does encourage players to invest more. Making players feel like every class is all the same when you know it is has never been true yourself is wrong, in my opinion.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 09-03-2018 at 06:56 PM.

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