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Thread: Tobes and Toast - Alternative / Overheal Sentinel specs for progression or otherwise

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    Shadowlander Rayolan's Avatar
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    Default Tobes and Toast - Alternative / Overheal Sentinel specs for progression or otherwise

    Sentinel hasn't gotten much love in Storm Legion... hopefully these specs change some opinions. I'm not going to give any long winded explanations or macros, we're all big kids here. Both specs carry huge ST CDs for tank assistance, and are centered on invocations, so will assist with overwhelming tank damage. The AOE variant carries significant spot heal potential as well as raid healing. The ST variant offers the biggest ST heals available... period. Both specs are highly mobile, both specs carry huge ST CDs. It's unlikely either spec will become a regular in faceroll raids, but for progression purposes they can be the make or break hole filler uppers for any encounter.

    TOHABZ - "The OverHeal AOE Battle reZs" SPEC THING!!! Pronounced "Tobes" or something? Whatever.

    - 2 Battle Rez'z'z's (wat?)
    - HF, HS, SS from Warden on tank offer a welcome bunch of hots, and raid heal a little with shared excess.
    - Wait... isn't this an invocation centered spec? YUP. That's why our hots are on the tank instead of yourself as is accepted in standard warden... and why... wait a minute... shared excess + invocations?!?! and Marked by the Light... you get the idea. Free raid heals just for healing the tank. Winning? I think so...
    - Tidal surge + fullness of life give a 38k(ish) heal ?! WITHOUT A CRIT?! wtf? Oh wait... there's still shared excess too...
    - Wrathful Exuberance usually sucks.. but now that I'm overhealing a FREAKING TON, because I use invocations.... dps gain? wat? and FOUR dots? wat?
    - HC (both of them), OOTS, ...more ST CDs than I care to list.
    - You get the picture... jack of all trades, perfect crutch for progression raiding.
    - Great for dungeons too, for all the obvious reasons.

    TOHST - "The OverHeal ST" SPEC THING!!! Pronounced "Toast" or something? Once again... Whatever.

    - This spec offers the heaviest possible invocations for fights where you just CANT keep the tank up.
    - Um... single target healing. It's overkill in a serious way.
    - Single target? Did I say that?
    - Tank healing.
    - Nothing will overwrite your puri
    - HIGHLY mobile
    - Winning
    - Single Target
    - CDs for days...

    Don't need hate mail... just feedback. There are a couple ways these could be changed... you could drop inquis from the AOE spec for puri and get a little bubble, etc. etc., I like the extra dot and wouldn't use the bubble if I had it. Let me know how YOU want to try / did try with these, how you used them, how you think they could be improved / altered for different uses, etc <3

    Tobes and Toast!!

    Ray

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Sorry but I am not seeing what these specs have to offer over 61 Sent/12 Warden and 61 Sent/15 Puri respectively, and in both of those you pick up Faith Rewarded among other things.

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    Plane Touched kiralia's Avatar
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    Also the 2 battle rez are on the same cooldown so its effectively still only 1 battle rez

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    Plane Touched Korncob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Sorry but I am not seeing what these specs have to offer over 61 Sent/12 Warden and 61 Sent/15 Puri respectively, and in both of those you pick up Faith Rewarded among other things.
    I think the question should be whether or not these can be considered viable expert dungeon healing alternatives to 61sent or not...there doesn't need to be a "best" that everyone uses, there needs to be a set of very viable specs that people can choose from as that is the point of the soul system.

    I will personally be trying the first one out as it sounds like a neat idea that could work out nicely...as said before though battle rez's aren't separate sadly but shared excess + invocations and aoe breath of life+2 aoe cleanses means it would be incredibly good on aoe fights.

    Edit : I would honestly move the 2 points in call to action to 1 point in empowering light and 1 point in merciful appeal, and change inquisitor 0 spec into purifier for the extra shield, that's just me though.
    Last edited by Korncob; 03-12-2013 at 02:00 PM.

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    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korncob View Post
    I think the question should be whether or not these can be considered viable expert dungeon healing alternatives to 61sent or not...there doesn't need to be a "best" that everyone uses, there needs to be a set of very viable specs that people can choose from as that is the point of the soul system.

    I will personally be trying the first one out as it sounds like a neat idea that could work out nicely...as said before though battle rez's aren't separate sadly but shared excess + invocations and aoe breath of life+2 aoe cleanses means it would be incredibly good on aoe fights.

    Edit : I would honestly move the 2 points in call to action to 1 point in empowering light and 1 point in merciful appeal, and change inquisitor 0 spec into purifier for the extra shield, that's just me though.
    The OP seemed to indicate these builds are intended for progression raiding. In experts I agree feel free to experiment but they are suboptimal for raiding.

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    Plane Touched Korncob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    The OP seemed to indicate these builds are intended for progression raiding. In experts I agree feel free to experiment but they are suboptimal for raiding.
    Ah I apologize I didn't read that part of the post, I read "this build is great for dungeons" and immediately assumed it was for experts.

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    Shadowlander Rayolan's Avatar
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    I appreciate all the feedback!

    The first spec, as stated, is great for dungeoning. As far as raiding goes, the specs are made to be "overhealers", used in conjuction with your puri/defiler/lbv/lgv, etc. Neither would ever be used as a primary healer, or replace a primary healing alternative. But the sent/warden spec offers a deal of raid healing while still offering large ST heals, something the Warden does not do. The sent/puri spec has the biggest spell for spell heals available, which helps prevent a tank that's getting smashed from ever reaching 50% in the first place.

    Overhealing progression bosses while learning a fight is pretty common, these offer an alternative way to fill that role based on your raid's needs.

    Thanks ^^

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    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayolan View Post
    The sent/puri spec has the biggest spell for spell heals available, which helps prevent a tank that's getting smashed from ever reaching 50% in the first place.
    That's not how damage works in SL raids though. The tank *will* hit 30% in one hit and that's when you need the big heals.

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    Rift Master McWaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    That's not how damage works in SL raids though. The tank *will* hit 30% in one hit and that's when you need the big heals.
    This.

    And in terms of raw output, you will never beat a chloromancer which also provides WG for a raid dps boost as well as doing some dps itself. In it's current state, sent is a dungeon spec and nothing more. Cleric healing in raids is dealt with by the defilers, puris, and wardens.

    TL;DR sentinel will never compare to chloro for consistent large healing/overhealing
    "You're just realizing the fault of your species, human beings are the most untrustworthy, backstabbing creatures on this planet. Except for bears."

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    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McWaffles View Post
    This.

    And in terms of raw output, you will never beat a chloromancer which also provides WG for a raid dps boost as well as doing some dps itself. In it's current state, sent is a dungeon spec and nothing more. Cleric healing in raids is dealt with by the defilers, puris, and wardens.

    TL;DR sentinel will never compare to chloro for consistent large healing/overhealing
    61 Sent easily compares to chloro in healing output, and easily beats it in burst healing. There are a few reasons it's not used in raiding: clerics are needed for other specialties (puri/defiler/warden/tank), chloros do more DPS and bring Wild Growth, the important Sent cooldown (HC) can be applied by a Puri, and the burst healing is usually not needed due to the mitigation of puri/defiler/cooldowns.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 03-13-2013 at 07:06 AM.

  11. #11
    Shadowlander Rayolan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    That's not how damage works in SL raids though. The tank *will* hit 30% in one hit and that's when you need the big heals.
    I guess it's a matter of preference.

    Is 8% healing and 10% SP greater than faith rewarded?

    It's certainly more consistent. If your tank takes predictable damage it will be easily dealt with w/out faith rewarded. Unpredicted damage, if you see your tank dip that low and weren't expecting it, you're probably going to burn a CD anyway.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander Rayolan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    61 Sent easily compares to chloro in healing output, and easily beats it in burst healing. There are a few reasons it's not used in raiding: clerics are needed for other specialties (puri/defiler/warden/tank), chloros do more DPS and bring Wild Growth, the important Sent cooldown (HC) can be applied by a Puri, and the burst healing is usually not needed due to the mitigation of puri/defiler/cooldowns.
    Agreed, which is why these aren't supposed to take those roles place, but complement them in a raid struggling with healing. The Sent/Warden spec for example brings huge consistency to tank healing with a full compliment of warden hots as well as Invocations, and provides trickle healing to the raid with Shared Excess and HF, all of which benefit greatly from the water and hot % increases in the Warden tree. You pick up OOTS, which is amazing for predictable damage, and your tidal surge jumps to 80% for that oh **** moment.

    It's also a DPS improvement to a standard Sentinel OR a standard Warden. I think any reasons a raid may have for bringing a Sentinel could be equally answered by one of these specs.

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    Shadowlander Rayolan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McWaffles View Post
    This.

    And in terms of raw output, you will never beat a chloromancer which also provides WG for a raid dps boost as well as doing some dps itself. In it's current state, sent is a dungeon spec and nothing more. Cleric healing in raids is dealt with by the defilers, puris, and wardens.

    TL;DR sentinel will never compare to chloro for consistent large healing/overhealing
    As Grinns said, sent is comparable to chloro for raw output. You could actually make an argument for replacing a LBV chloro with the Sent/Warden spec if healing is more of an issue than hanging onto WG. The increased consistency of fully buffed hots, the mobility the hots and sent spec provides, and the fact that an extra HC combined with OOTS will get a tank through just about anything are all compelling reasons a raid may want to do that.

    Its necessity and viability are obviously based on a particular raid's dynamics, but it is certainly an option worth considering.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    We use 2x sent for Twins - that said its only time we use them.

    In 5 man I just use defiler.

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    Rift Master McWaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayolan View Post
    As Grinns said, sent is comparable to chloro for raw output. You could actually make an argument for replacing a LBV chloro with the Sent/Warden spec if healing is more of an issue than hanging onto WG. The increased consistency of fully buffed hots, the mobility the hots and sent spec provides, and the fact that an extra HC combined with OOTS will get a tank through just about anything are all compelling reasons a raid may want to do that.

    Its necessity and viability are obviously based on a particular raid's dynamics, but it is certainly an option worth considering.
    It's very hard to beat the consistent high heals provided by raid buffed LBV void life. 10k ticks pretty much every second and instant 1s gcd NT's that crit heal for half a tank's health, not to mention corrosive spores and the consistent burst that can be provided for 10s every minute with symbiosis. With only a 1s gcd applied when using bloom/flourish/essence surge/cleanses (although sent can only have a 1s gcd on cleanses as well) the longest a tank with a lbv chloro on them will go without healing is 1s normally, or 1.5s every 16s IF using ruin on CD and not saving it for movement. Also, chloro's don't have the most remote hint of a possibility of having mana issues.

    The only reason I could ever see using a sent over a chloro is if HC was an absolute must, but your puri will have that anyways since 54/22 is the standard puri spec.

    Additionally, I do not know of a fight where it's more beneficial to have a puri as well as a LBV chloro instead of actually having your puri focus on using ward heals/absorbs on the tanks in addition to the veil heals, which eliminates the excess over-healing that would be the result of 2 tank healers that are focused on raw output and instead extends a tank's effective max HP which prevents a fast burst death (the majority of actual tank deaths).

    From a tank's perspective, I would MUCH rather have a chloro on me than a sent, in both experts and raids. All else I can think of in favor of sent is if your mages are flat out terrible, it could be a viable option.
    "You're just realizing the fault of your species, human beings are the most untrustworthy, backstabbing creatures on this planet. Except for bears."

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