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Thread: (Relatively) Simplified Defiler - Read if your raid doesn't have one

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    Ascendant Stay's Avatar
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    Default (Relatively) Simplified Defiler - Read if your raid doesn't have one

    Your raid needs a defiler. Every raid instance has bosses, and even trash, where you are making things much more difficult for yourselves if you lack links on your tanks. This guide is intended to provide a build and playstyle that will be useful in every encounter, while making one of the most complicated souls in the game as comprehensible as possible. I originally posted it on my guild forums in an effort to get someone (anyone!) else to play defiler so I don't have to play it every raid.

    Spec: 58 defiler 10 justi 8 inquis
    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree.j...Bhkix0/r8w/nAc

    Role:
    Provide high-rank links to tanks while doing respectable ST and AoE DPS and some passive raid heals.

    Buffs:
    Rage Blight
    Armor of Devotion
    Chimera's Gift
    Feast of the Fallen
    Link of Agony on main tank
    Link of Suffering on off tank (if there is one)
    Other links on melee pets (dinosaurs, satyrs, fire elementals, cats)

    Play:
    Plays as a DPS with a Brez and some emergency tank heals. 95% of the time you should just be DPSing and concentrating on doing as much damage as possible.
    -Maintain Siphon Vitality, Bond of Pain, and Marrow Harvest
    -Spread those every 15s with Nexus of Pain if there are multiple enemies
    -Maintain Vex
    -Spam the spam macro
    -If a tank gets low, heal him off-gcd with Ghastly Restoration
    -If a tank healer is dead, keep the tank up with Explosive Growth + Loathsome Restoration until the healer is alive again
    -Use Beacon of Despair on boss unless there are melee 1-shot mechanics or lots of movement

    Essential Macros:
    DPS Spam
    ---------------
    cast chimera's gift
    cast pain transmission
    cast bolt of radiance
    cast sanction heretic
    cast marrow harvest
    cast somatic desecration
    cast strike of judgment
    cast hammer of duty
    cast vex

    Mouseover off-gcd heal
    ----------------
    #show ghastly restoration
    cast @mouseoverui ghastly restoration

    Beacon pickup
    ----------------
    cancelbuff summon beacon of despair



    You can also use mouseover macros to heal or cleanse without needing to untarget the boss:
    cast @mouseoverui [spell name]
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  2. #2
    Ascendant Stay's Avatar
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    For more advanced users:

    - Use 61 defiler builds for UT if you know the fights well enough to use it appropriately
    - Use multiple builds for different fights, likely including a cab/inq build for AoE-heavy encounters
    - Set up Karuul Alert to alert you when links go down and when ghastly or UT is off cooldown. Remove chimera from your spam macro and cast it manually when you get an alert that it goes down
    - Remove Pain Transmission from spam macro and use it manually when all links are in melee range
    - Toggle between blights for different phases of fight, provide extra tank healing when needed
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  3. #3
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    I will state upfront that I have not played Defiler. But Justicar attacks such as Bolt of Radiance, Strike of Judgment and Hammer of Duty have a threat modifier so it's probably not a good idea to use them without Mien of Honor, nevermind that the points in justicar don't help your healing or DPS as much as another soul could. Salvation is currently benefiting from the healing bug which will be fixed next patch FYI.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 01-29-2013 at 03:25 PM.

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    Ascendant Stay's Avatar
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    The threat concern is misplaced. The threat modifier on those attacks is something like +50%. +50% threat on a small part of a (relatively low) DPS rotation isn't going to pull off a raid tank. If someone pulls off a tank, it's another tank or a pure DPS unloading cooldowns before threat is built. Not a defiler.

    The healing issue may be more relevant after next patch, it remains to be seen. But for now, reparation is the only way to get any kind of decent raid heals out of a 58+ defiler. There is next to no raid healing in the defiler tree itself, and you can't go deep enough in warden to get anything good.

    It's possible to play a 58+ defiler as a tank healer but I (and an apparent consensus of defiler posters) feel this is a less effective playstyle. The most legitimate alternative is to abandon healing completely in favor of maximizing DPS.
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  5. #5
    Rift Disciple No Quarter's Avatar
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    If your going to spec that far up defiler you might as well go 61 points in. UT is by far the best CD in the game right now.

    Defiler dps is more of a fall back when you don't need to heal, and shouldn't be your primary function in a raid, since defiler dps is awful and you shouldn't be relying on dps to apply foul growth on a link since it's only a chance..

    There is also no real reason to spec up justicar since salvation is going to yield very little healing, no real dps gain, and you really take no damage from links anymore. I would look at specing more up sent and maybe a little up Inq for the SP.

    I'd also look at breaking up that macro from a one button spam. You really only need to put up bonds, Marrow Harvest, Siphon Vitality and spam Somatic Desecration. Pain Transmition is very situational, If you have a bunch of links in melee that its worth using, but i would use it separately. Sanction is viable if you spec that far up inq, vex is hit or miss imo.
    4/4 Frozen Tempest, 5/5 Endless Eclipse

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stay View Post
    The threat concern is misplaced. The threat modifier on those attacks is something like +50%. +50% threat on a small part of a (relatively low) DPS rotation isn't going to pull off a raid tank. If someone pulls off a tank, it's another tank or a pure DPS unloading cooldowns before threat is built. Not a defiler.

    The healing issue may be more relevant after next patch, it remains to be seen. But for now, reparation is the only way to get any kind of decent raid heals out of a 58+ defiler. There is next to no raid healing in the defiler tree itself, and you can't go deep enough in warden to get anything good.

    It's possible to play a 58+ defiler as a tank healer but I (and an apparent consensus of defiler posters) feel this is a less effective playstyle. The most legitimate alternative is to abandon healing completely in favor of maximizing DPS.
    The threat concern is not misplaced. If you use bolt of radiance on an enemy that a tank has not established proper threat on you will pull it, the same as if a DPS uses fulminate. The difference is the DPS should expect to do that because Fulminate is a burst damage ability, a defiler should not.

    And defiler's role in a raid is not raid healing so there's really no point in worrying about that.

    Inq and Sent for the spellpower bonuses would be my choice since these give the maximum bonus to healing and DPS at the same time.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 01-29-2013 at 03:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by No Quarter View Post
    I'd also look at breaking up that macro from a one button spam. You really only need to put up bonds, Marrow Harvest, Siphon Vitality and spam Somatic Desecration. Pain Transmition is very situational, If you have a bunch of links in melee that its worth using, but i would use it separately. Sanction is viable if you spec that far up inq, vex is hit or miss imo.
    The rest of the post is essentially arguing that defiler should be played as a tank healer. That would be a different guide, and in my experience it leans pretty heavily on the explosive growth bug which will supposedly be fixed any day. I do disagree that defiler DPS is bad, it's fairly respectable especially with multiple targets.

    The quoted part tho I can speak to. Somatic Desecration is a rather poor DPS spam attack; heavy use of it may be part of why you think defiler DPS is so bad. Pain transmission is already better with 2 links in range, and far far better with multiple links and/or multiple targets in range. Vex, SH, and any cabalist dots your spec picks up are all obvious DPS-per-cast gains over somatic. BoR is roughly a wash but is in there to do double reparation healing.
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    There really is absolutely no reason to go 58pts and not go all the way to 61pts. UT is just downright gamebreaking and no 3 points anywhere else will have such a huge impact.
    Nope.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    The threat concern is not misplaced. If you use bolt of radiance on an enemy that a tank has not established proper threat on you will pull it, the same as if a DPS uses fulminate. The difference is the DPS should expect to do that because Fulminate is a burst damage ability, a defiler should not.
    It's like the 4th attack in a rotation after you apply DoTs. It does +50% threat but doesn't hit particularly hard, the result is the same as a slightly stronger attack with no modifier. It is silly to worry about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    And defiler's role in a raid is not raid healing so there's really no point in worrying about that.

    Inq and Sent for the spellpower bonuses would be my choice since these give the maximum bonus to healing and DPS at the same time.
    This is a natural assumption and one I started with. However in practice, your DPS/HPS is very limited by global cooldowns. Doing much healing will significantly reduce DPS regardless of spec. Reparation is an exception because it is passive healing and doesn't eat your GCDs.

    It's also a nice way for a simplified spec to put all the +heal bonuses in the tree to work, without needing complicated DPS-vs-heal-priority rules and mouseover/focus macros.
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    Plane Touched kiralia's Avatar
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    Part of the argument here seems based on how much dps a defiler can do in a raid situation and if its worth concentrating on that aspect or not.

    With that in mind do you have any parses to show what kind of numbers we should expect with this spec?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    There really is absolutely no reason to go 58pts and not go all the way to 61pts. UT is just downright gamebreaking and no 3 points anywhere else will have such a huge impact.
    I'd like you to elaborate on where you have found it to be game-breaking. I started with the same assumption - it sounds awesome from the description - but in practice I rarely found situations where UT would save a tank but ghastly/loathsome wouldn't.

    I do carry a 61 defiler spec - for one thing UT is great in PvP. But I'm legitimately curious where you are finding it game-breaking in PvE. I'd like to put it to better use there.
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  12. #12
    Ascendant Stay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiralia View Post
    Part of the argument here seems based on how much dps a defiler can do in a raid situation and if its worth concentrating on that aspect or not.

    With that in mind do you have any parses to show what kind of numbers we should expect with this spec?
    Nah, I run a casual raid guild, I am not the type that saves parses lol. But I can tell you that you that with my rather poor gear (no raid pieces) it does 14-18k on AoE trash pulls, 8-11k on boss fights with multiple targets, and 5-8k purely ST. 1-2.5k passive healing depending on raid damage. Radak claims his slightly-more-dps-focused spec can do 10k single target, but that seems high to me even given better gear.
    Last edited by Stay; 01-29-2013 at 04:23 PM.
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    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stay View Post
    I'd like you to elaborate on where you have found it to be game-breaking. I started with the same assumption - it sounds awesome from the description - but in practice I rarely found situations where UT would save a tank but ghastly/loathsome wouldn't.

    I do carry a 61 defiler spec - for one thing UT is great in PvP. But I'm legitimately curious where you are finding it game-breaking in PvE. I'd like to put it to better use there.
    Game-breaking was an exaggeration. It's just incredibly an powerful cooldown, and you can never have too many cooldowns, especially when you have Regulos hitting like a Mack truck to the face.
    I can't see any reason to sacrifice bringing it just for a measly DPS or HPS increase from spending the points elsewhere.
    Nope.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple No Quarter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiralia View Post
    Part of the argument here seems based on how much dps a defiler can do in a raid situation and if its worth concentrating on that aspect or not.

    With that in mind do you have any parses to show what kind of numbers we should expect with this spec?
    Okay so I parsed the OP's Spec and some spec I threw together for testing purposes.

    I used my normal gear in the PTS dummy foundry.

    Code:
    My Stats: In my spec
    SP: 5613
    Crit: 1865 (14.80 %)
    CP: 265
    
    My Stats: In Op's spec
    SP: 5330
    Crit: 1952 (15.49%)
    CP: 265
    I did not use Pain Transmission for testing, I did use 5 Stacks of Rage Blight.

    Op's Spec, just using his spam macro: 6,498.64
    Op's Spec, w/ Bond and Siphon Vitality: 7,287.15
    My Spec, Just Defiler abilities: 7,696.32
    My Spec, w/ Sanction: 7,994.17
    My Spec, w/ Vex: 8,430.62
    My Spec, w/ Sanction and Vex: 8,320.46

    From what it looks like Vex is a dps gain, Sanction really isn't. So realistically you can spec further up sent with out really loosing dps. I do have macros for all non-spam abilities with Marrow Harvest on top, It's something you should always prioritize imo.

    @Op specing up Justicar is really a big dps loss; Defiler alone is matching/beating your spec's dps. Salvation really isn't that big of a healing gain considering it's currently bugged and will be fixed soon(ish) which will reduce it's current healing output. Also Since the bulk of your damage is coming from Defiler abilities it really won't be procing very big heals, so the healing your doing is very marginal. If you want some raid healing support while in defiler I would suggest specing up warden, you'd probably get more healing output from just healing flood than salvation.
    Last edited by No Quarter; 01-30-2013 at 03:56 AM.
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    @No Quarter

    You really only need 5 pts in Sentinel, for the +SP. You don't gain anything by going any further. Your raid will have an +End buff (or 17) and you already said the healing is very minor so no need to try and buff it by another 4%. You'd be better off putting those 2 pts into Inquis for 4% damage.

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