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Thread: [Video] M*A*S*H Justicar/Shaman/Warden PVP @ Rank 4

  1. #31
    Sword of Telara taugrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InferiOmega View Post
    I might mess around with a 44 druid/justicar variation once the valor normalization takes place. SO much debuffing utility to be had there.
    Can you provide a link? Curious to see what you're thinking of.

    The value of the M*A*S*H spec may increase when Valor is normalized - the passive undispellable 18% mitigation will provide differentiation from specs that don't have innate mitigation. Of course, this is speculation and we'll have to see how the PVP gear changes are actually implemented.
    Last edited by taugrim; 08-31-2011 at 12:37 PM.
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  2. #32
    Shadowlander Excelsior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taugrim View Post
    Can you provide a link? Curious to see what you're thinking of.

    The value of the M*A*S*H spec may increase when Valor is normalized - the passive undispellable 18% mitigation will provide differentiation from specs that don't have innate mitigation. Of course, this is speculation and we'll have to see how the PVP gear changes are actually implemented.
    he's referring to the "spirit" class of druid debuffs, Trickster Spirit, Slothful Spirit, and Spiteful Spirit. They lower ap/sp of the target, increase power/mana costs of abilities by 25%, and place a 50% heal debuff on target. Their ST with 15 sec cd/duration. Slothful Spirit can really ruin someones day in a big melee battle. Only problem with Druid is a lack of a gap closer. Humility can solve that partially.

    The druid has nearly everything you need from a PvP melee standpoint except for its problem staying on target. Very weak snares and low duration root that is PBAoE
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  3. #33
    Shadowlander Excelsior's Avatar
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    Sorry spirit debuffs have 8 second cd
    Last edited by Excelsior; 08-31-2011 at 01:10 PM.
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  4. #34
    Soulwalker
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    Default Excellent build, well thought out.

    Hello I'm practically brand new to RIFT, playing a Cleric on the Defiant side. I have to say, really like your spec. Seems very solid in PvP. I'm wondering if you could give me some input on a build I'm toying with. My character is currently level 40. Playing through the 30-39 Warfront brackets, the past week. I found myself experimenting with a few varied builds. Some of them involving Cabalist/Shaman mixture. However, they weren't really panning out as I expected. Tweaking the build, I believe to have found a nice little niche DPS/Self-heal combo. 18 shaman/26 Inquisitor/8 Sentinel

    Link to the spec as it stood at level 39: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...Ved0k.VEzd0poo

    The build essentially revolves around the usage of dots to soften up your perspective targets. Then followed suit with high critical burst damage. Within the span of 8 to 10 minutes at level 38-39. I was dealing 35 to 45k over that time period. Highest crit on jolt was 600. The character has around 170+ spell crit and 480 spell power. Physical is around 450+ Crit 150-180. Mostly in blue gear. Purge and Impede are vital. I found myself using both quite often before applying the dots and after. Vex/Banish/Sanction are the primaries with SP increasing the output. The fear only augments the build, and seems to be a great escape/deny mechanism.

    The build does have some flaws, for instance lack of a silence. I pretty much had to out last healers, and pick moments when to strike. It's not great in certain 2v1 situations. Warrior tag teams did my character in quite a few times.

    Link to what level 50 spec will look like: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...bc0z.VEzd0toaz

    26 shaman/32 Inquisitor/ 8 Sentinel

    I'm unsure how it'll pan out. Please feel free to critique it. I'm still learning the game. I love the flexibility of the cleric class. I'm enjoying my play time in RIFT.

  5. #35
    Sword of Telara taugrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpectralAnubis View Post
    My character is currently level 40. Playing through the 30-39 Warfront brackets, the past week. I found myself experimenting with a few varied builds. Some of them involving Cabalist/Shaman mixture. However, they weren't really panning out as I expected. Tweaking the build, I believe to have found a nice little niche DPS/Self-heal combo. 18 shaman/26 Inquisitor/8 Sentinel.
    IMO Shaman and Inquisitor don't synergize that well from a mechanics standpoint. Shaman is mostly melee / physical melee and Inq is ranged spell damage.

    Here are some better combos:
    • Inquisitor/Justicar
    • Shaman/Justicar
    • Justicar/Shaman
    There are other people on this forum who could provide you much more insight than me on Inquisitor specs. I've only used it as a 3rd tree not a 2nd or 1st.
    Taugrim
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  6. #36
    Soulwalker
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    high 20 - early 30s going heavy warden/sent with 2 points in inqui i could put out as much dmg as most dps and still keep everyone alive and I could kill anything other than a healer in a duel...
    But the game changes quickly after that. waterjet + untalented vex and SH won't kill anyone in the 40s let alone 50s. point is, keep your play style not your spec.

    But yeah, I think your post is somewhat misplaced here, I think Taugrim's build (hence this thread) is about being a full time healer with extra mobility and the flexibility to put out some dmg. Nothing like your build which is more about being able to heal ur self while dpsing.

    That said, there are many builds out there that IMO does what ur build does much much more efficiently.

  7. #37
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by InferiOmega View Post
    I might mess around with a 44 druid/justicar variation once the valor normalization takes place. SO much debuffing utility to be had there.
    think your on to something there, never before would you consider this but these days you could almost get away as a healer with just having DoL.
    Last edited by Lumunes; 08-31-2011 at 08:52 PM.

  8. #38
    Plane Walker InferiOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taugrim View Post
    Can you provide a link? Curious to see what you're thinking of.

    The value of the M*A*S*H spec may increase when Valor is normalized - the passive undispellable 18% mitigation will provide differentiation from specs that don't have innate mitigation. Of course, this is speculation and we'll have to see how the PVP gear changes are actually implemented.
    Something like this here: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...hkqqz.VLk.VhMo

    Mostly a support melee spec. Eruption gives Convictions, and I didn't take the Fervent Strike talent because the default 0 CD melee attack will of course be Strike of Judgment for the Convictions. Simple to macro, still has access to Loyalty spam when necessary. Purge. Brutal Impact and Impede are your primary snaring tools, although I may actually do the blasphemous thing and dump the points in Inner Focus into Castigation instead for a full ranged rotation for building convictions as necessary for those times where charging in is a dumb idea, also considering the lack of quality gap closers. I also took Aggressive Renewal for this reason as well.

    Spiteful and Slothful Spirits are pretty money though, and Druid is the only way to get a heal debuff on a Cleric. Combined Effort and Rage of the Fae makes your faerie a decent source of heals if she gets left alone, could have her 'Stay' near the ranged line to keep her out of trouble, although you may not have to micro her that much as I'm sure she'll tend to do that naturally anyways.
    Last edited by InferiOmega; 08-31-2011 at 09:00 PM.

  9. #39
    Plane Walker InferiOmega's Avatar
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    Mmk, given the following:


    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    This is a question that comes up often enough that I feel the need to respond so people can simply repost or quote this in all such future threads. Others have responded with similar rules in this thread and similar ones in the past, I just wanted to give some official backing to them.

    The General Rules (at least for Clerics):
    1. If the tooltip says, "Requires Melee Weapon", it's not a Spell.
    2. If it deals weapon damage (i.e. the tooltip includes something like, "deals weapon plus 20 to 40 Physical damage"), it's not a Spell.
    3. If it can be used while Silenced, it's not a Spell.
    4. If it can be Blocked, Dodged, or Parried, rather than Resisted, it's not a Spell.

    If you encounter a Cleric ability that invalidates one of these rules, but still seems to function as a Spell as far as various abilities or soul tree branches are concerned, please post about it because it's probably a bug.
    Castigation might not be a bad idea after all, although if Inner Focus applied to non-damaging spells (Doctrine of Loyalty) it'd still be a hard sell, but since it doesn't, I'm thinking Castigation might work out to be mechanically superior to Inner Focus for this particular build.

  10. #40
    Plane Touched
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    I wanted to point out something from your video Taugrim (so THIS is where you've been hiding!). Cavalier and Mien of Honor cannot be dispelled from you last I checked. Thus you should buff those first, and end with Reparation/Salvation IMO.
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  11. #41
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    A view from the lowbie pvp front:

    I just swapped to this spec on a level 19 cleric that I plan on leveling entirely through WF's, Rifts, and Dungeons. At very first blush, I'm very impressed with the concept and the play style. Last night I ran 3 Black Gardens, and was top in heals and time carrying the fang each time. DPS was somewhere inthe middle of the pack: not the best, but certainly not the worst. Granted, that's only 3 runs worth of observation, but it seemed a dramatic improvement over the Justicar/Inquisitor/Sentinel build I was running before.

    I may just have to un-retire my 50 cleric for this one and try it out, though that may prove futile as that character has 0 valor (I PVE powerleveled her at launch with no time at all in WF's ).

    Anyway, thanks, Taugrim.

  12. #42
    Plane Walker InferiOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SetisDagre View Post
    I wanted to point out something from your video Taugrim (so THIS is where you've been hiding!). Cavalier and Mien of Honor cannot be dispelled from you last I checked. Thus you should buff those first, and end with Reparation/Salvation IMO.
    I'm almost 100% certain Cavalier has been removed from me before. MoH and other toggles might fall under Stance clause and not be removable tho.

    As for the proposed druid build above, I ended up taking Castigation and NOT taking Armor of Devotion. I suppose you could make a more offensive variant but I chose to go as tanky as I could with the talent points I had. If I still seem squishy I'll just grab all the higher offense stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karuna View Post
    A view from the lowbie pvp front:

    I just swapped to this spec on a level 19 cleric that I plan on leveling entirely through WF's, Rifts, and Dungeons. At very first blush, I'm very impressed with the concept and the play style. Last night I ran 3 Black Gardens, and was top in heals and time carrying the fang each time. DPS was somewhere inthe middle of the pack: not the best, but certainly not the worst. Granted, that's only 3 runs worth of observation, but it seemed a dramatic improvement over the Justicar/Inquisitor/Sentinel build I was running before.

    I may just have to un-retire my 50 cleric for this one and try it out, though that may prove futile as that character has 0 valor (I PVE powerleveled her at launch with no time at all in WF's ).

    Anyway, thanks, Taugrim.
    Luckily for you, Valor has been normalized. Just get p2 and you'll have as much valor on your body pieces as a p6-p8.
    Last edited by InferiOmega; 09-01-2011 at 09:33 AM.

  13. #43
    Sword of Telara taugrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SetisDagre View Post
    I wanted to point out something from your video Taugrim (so THIS is where you've been hiding!). Cavalier and Mien of Honor cannot be dispelled from you last I checked. Thus you should buff those first, and end with Reparation/Salvation IMO.
    You are right! Thanks much for the correction.

    At some point in the game I thought those were dispellable, but maybe that's never been the case. At any rate, as you said, Cav and MoH should be put up first, as they are the most important and not dispellable.

    I'm going to buff in this order:
    - Cavalier
    - Mien of Honor
    - Courage of X
    - Heart of Y
    - Vengeance of the Winter Storm
    - Salvation
    - Reparation
    Last edited by taugrim; 09-01-2011 at 11:25 AM.
    Taugrim
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by taugrim View Post
    IMO Shaman and Inquisitor don't synergize that well from a mechanics standpoint. Shaman is mostly melee / physical melee and Inq is ranged spell damage.

    Here are some better combos:
    • Inquisitor/Justicar
    • Shaman/Justicar
    • Justicar/Shaman
    There are other people on this forum who could provide you much more insight than me on Inquisitor specs. I've only used it as a 3rd tree not a 2nd or 1st.
    I personally use Shaman/Inquis/Sentinel for PvP and can say that Inquisitor meshes fairly well with Shaman. While it doesn't have as potent of synergies that say Inquis/Justicar have, Inquis is very nice to have in PVP. At the very least, it provides me with 2 ranged attacks to simply add some more damage or potentially get that last hit on someone (situational at best but I have got killing blows with Sanction Heretic where they otherwise would have got away) and Vex. Vex isn't all that great untalented but it certainly is better than nothing while you're closing the gap (and Battle Charge is on cooldown). What makes Inquisitor really shine for Shaman PvP is that it provides a ranged snare (even though it's only 30%) which has no cooldown and is off the global cooldown. It also provides Purge. Having Purge available has given me the upperhand on numerous occassions. Finally, I like using the 50 Endurance + Armor buff. While it's not gamebreaking, it's nice having an extra 400-something hps...has often made the difference between me bleeding out or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by InferiOmega View Post
    I'm almost 100% certain Cavalier has been removed from me before. MoH and other toggles might fall under Stance clause and not be removable tho.

    Luckily for you, Valor has been normalized. Just get p2 and you'll have as much valor on your body pieces as a p6-p8.
    I'm not certain if they've changed it but I know that I've purged a Justicar dry before. I've removed both Meins off of them, have removed Cavalier and Salvation. Those buffs may have been changed to be non-dispellable though so I'll have to test it with a guildie or something to confirm.

    Also, as Inferi mentioned - a Justicar with R1/2 gear will have the same, if not higher, mitigation as most R7/8s. 48% mitigation at R2 is very nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by taugrim View Post
    You are right! Thanks much for the correction.

    At some point in the game I thought those were dispellable, but maybe that's never been the case. At any rate, as you said, Cav and MoH should be put up first, as they are the most important and not dispellable.

    I'm going to buff in this order:
    - Cavalier
    - Mien of Honor
    - Courage of X
    - Heart of Y
    - Vengeance of the Winter Storm
    - Salvation
    - Reparation
    If Cavalier and Meins are non-dispellable, it doesn't matter what order you buff them as they will be overlooked. Your order could very well look like this and have the same net effect:

    - Courage of X
    - Heart of Y
    - Cavalier
    - Vengeance of the Winter Storm
    - Salvation
    - Reparation
    - Mien of Honor

    (I'm just picking nits now though lol)
    Last edited by Miraodus; 09-01-2011 at 11:53 AM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by taugrim View Post
    You are right! Thanks much for the correction.

    At some point in the game I thought those were dispellable, but maybe that's never been the case. At any rate, as you said, Cav and MoH should be put up first, as they are the most important and not dispellable.

    I'm going to buff in this order:
    - Cavalier
    - Mien of Honor
    - Courage of X
    - Heart of Y
    - Vengeance of the Winter Storm
    - Salvation
    - Reparation
    That's close to what I'm doing, except I do Vengeance before Courage and Heart buffs. Since my point is not to do damage, and the actual damage add is pretty minimal anyway it's the first thing I want to go. I also do Reparation and then Salvation last (dead healers do no healing).
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