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Thread: How to earn your raid spot

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    Plane Walker Mav986's Avatar
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    Default How to earn your raid spot

    So my guild has recently had a relatively large influx of potential raiders from another guild, and while a few of them are definitely worthy of being core raiders, quite a few don't seem to be aware of what's expected of them. Rather than write a guide on my guilds forums and 'single out' people as it were, I thought I would go 1 step further, and possibly help other guilds who might have a similar problems.

    With that being said, I introduce:

    HOW TO BE A BETTER RAIDER


    Learn the fights beforehand
    Too many people show up to a raid unaware of any mechanics they are about to face on their journey. It doesn't take much time to google the raid you're about to face and watch a video and read a text guide on how to tackle a boss and its mechanics. Delaying the raid so that the raid leader can explain the mechanics to you, only to potentially wipe more than once due to you failing some critical part of the fight, is just plain rude. 95% of the boss fights in RIFT are very simple, with mechanics that even the laziest of raiders can understand. Take 30 minutes out of your day to read ahead and be prepared. I guarantee your raid leaders will thank you for it!

    Come prepared with appropriate consumables
    While many guilds(including mine) offer raid consumables to people without them, you can bet your sweet bippy that if you consistently show up to raids without your own, you may very well be passed up for further raids in the future. It takes a lot of time to farm mats for an entire raids consumables, but barely any time at all to farm your own. Coming prepared with your own consumables means that not only do you start the raid faster, but you're also showing initiative to the people that would otherwise ignore you. Stellar vials are not expensive to make!

    Learn everything about your class
    While you don't have to play every viable raid spec, you should at least take the time to learn them all. If there ever comes a time where it's down to you playing a certain spec or them finding someone else because you can't, you should always be prepared. I, myself, don't play archon specs in 99% of raids. My guild has a dedicated 'chon, and while she is a far better mage support than myself, if it comes down to support or miss raid, I'll take support any day.

    Suggestions are awesome... in moderation
    I'm very guilty of breaking this rule sometimes, and it's probably why I'm not the most amazing raider in the game by now. While making suggestions for the betterment of a raid is a great way of contributing, you need to understand that raid leaders are already under a bit of stress as it is. Not only do they have to perform at a higher level than expected of a regular raider, but they also need to be able to lead 19 other people to successful kills, all while keeping cool calm and collected. For people that work/study full time, 1 suggestion too many could mean the difference between "He's a useful guy to have in raid" and "He wants my job". I generally try only to suggest things that I've seen missed more than 3 times in a raid, and only if they're absolutely critical to a successful kill. Remember: Raid leaders are people too!

    Be prepared to take constructive criticism
    Constructive criticism isn't a bad thing! Your raid leader is not having a go at you, or trying to embarrass you. Believe it or not, he's there to help you. He wants you to succeed because you succeeding means he's succeeding. Too often I see people take criticism badly(myself included a few times) and it can create a rift, which ends up doing nothing but distancing you from the people that matter in your guild. Take criticism as nothing more than someone acting like a real life "Class guide", explaining tips/tricks/whatever to help things go easier for you.

    Don't focus so much on numbers, unless it's required for the fight
    DPS is usually one of the least important things for boss fights. Often pointing out your uber mega 1337 dps will also bring attention to people who didn't quite perform so well on that fight. Obviously if someone is severely underperforming, you will need to talk to them and possibly replace them until they're up to par, but there's no need to type out in raid chat "holy cow look at his bad dps" or "wow how did I get top dps, I'm so bad". This does nothing but make others feel bad. The only times DPS numbers should be a priority are on very specific fights, such as Eggtenders, which is built around a very tight enrage timer. Be proud of your dps, just don't flaunt it.

    Support your team
    Credit goes to: ilex011
    Be a cheerleader for your guildies. Even if you aren't on a team or are benched, a good, sincerely friendly attitude goes a long way. Celebrate with them when they down that boss they've been working on, and mean it. Make feasts for their raid nights. Yes, they probably have feasts already, but you know how it is when you're waiting for a pull or ready checks. Feasts can be gone before you know it.

    Be punctual
    Credit goes to: ginc
    If you cannot actually commit to a guild's raid schedule and show up reliably, then raid leaders and officers will not earmark a spot in the lineup for you. And if you are going to miss a raid, please let the raid leader or officers know in advance - this lets them know that you care about the success of the raid and helps them plan around your absence. Raids usually go much more smoothly when players are in their most comfortable roles. If too many people miss raids at random, then officers are forced to stick different players in key roles from raid to raid and it slows progress.



    This is hopefully a work in progress, so please feel free to post C&C. I tried my best to remember everything, however some things I may just take for granted. Any suggestions, let me know.
    Last edited by Mav986; 03-27-2014 at 10:46 AM.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    1) Don't be an ******
    2) Be semi-competent
    3) ???
    4) Profit $$$
    Nope.

  3. #3
    Plane Walker Mav986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    1) Don't be an ******
    2) Be semi-competent
    3) ???
    4) Profit $$$
    Unfortunately that's really more of a "How to be a basic raider" guide :3

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    Ascendant Slipmat's Avatar
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    You forgot 5) Primal, run LFR in other games as your 'boot camp'

  5. #5
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slipmat View Post
    You forgot 5) Primal, run LFR in other games as your 'boot camp'
    Dear god don't do that. I did that for the first time last week, it made me want to never raid again in any game. I considered giving up video games for good and despairing for the future of humanity.
    Last edited by Primalthirst; 02-20-2014 at 06:13 AM.
    Nope.

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    how to earn your raid spot: top the meters

  7. #7
    General of Telara Ardor's Avatar
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    Conversely, as a raid leader,

    1) Realize that there often are multiple published strategies for every given boss fight. Don't expect new members to be able to read your mind and know which variation you are using. It won't kill you to take 30 seconds to describe how things are going to go.

    2) Encourage sharing of consumables/crafted items/etc. as needed. It's supposed to be a team. If you treat them like a set of isolated individuals outside of raids, you can expect them to work like a set of disconnected individuals in a raid.

    3) Acknowledge that there is some possibility that someone playing a class that you don't play yourself knows something that you might learn. Too many raid leaders have very rigid ideas about what certain roles can and should do, and those preconceptions are often totally wrong. When you're right, be patient in how you explain it. Acting like you're smarter than everyone is a good way for your team to start resenting/hating you.

    4) If you are not open to having a 30-second conversation before or after fights to see what could be improved upon, then you should not be a raid leader. If fielding suggestions stresses you out, you have no business being a raid leader. If you are not interested in listening to others, and to learning, then you are missing out on a lot, in-game, and in real life. If, as a raid leader, you feel you need special treatment, and that somehow you are constantly persecuted by your own team, then you are not suited to being a raid leader. Stop doing it.

    5) don't verbally abuse people and then accuse them of not being able to take "constructive criticism" when they stand up for themselves. As a raid leader, you are not infallible. Sometimes you can be factually right, but because you were an a**hole about it, it doesn't matter. Your members have lots of choices of other guilds they could go to. Don't be a d*** to your team. Otherwise, you don't have a team, you have a randomly-assembled set of individuals, most of which are just there today for the loot, and fantasizing about the day they get the will to leave your guild and never have to deal with your ******baggery again.

    6) Don't say that numbers aren't of primary importance, but then turn around and brag about your numbers or encourage individuals in your raid to brag about theirs. Healthy competition can be good. De-emphasizing numbers in favor of raid awareness can be good. Whichever way you want to go is probably fine. But having a raid leader who's perceived as a hypocrite is never good.

    I'm not talking about anyone in particular here, I just thought I'd give some counterpoints. As someone who has been a raid leader (sometimes successfully and sometimes not), and who has also raided with a lot of different groups, I've seen and done pretty much all the good and bad about raid leaders.

    Basically: don't be a raid leader if you hate people, or if you're not willing to lead by example. Just don't. Cheers!

  8. #8
    Rift Master Ardwick's Avatar
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    I just don't understand why I keep getting sat. Here's my macro:

    #show Tearing Slash
    suppressmacro failures
    cast quantum sight
    cast arc
    cast shock pulse
    cast flamespear
    cast charged pulse
    cast double pulse
    cast dual pulse
    cast focused fire
    cast electricity cascade
    cast delayed pulse
    cast lightning torrent

    I have karuul alerts for fiery burst but I don't have a "Focus Target" on my screen so I don't think it works right.


    Which leads me to also suggest people have a basic understanding of the toolsets provided to help you in raid such as Karuul Alerts, using focus targets, interrupting focus, target of target, and how to write basic macros etc.
    Last edited by Ardwick; 02-20-2014 at 07:55 AM.

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser
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    There's one very obvious thing you left out on how to earn a raid spot: showing up!

    If you cannot actually commit to a guild's raid schedule and show up reliably, then raid leaders and officers will not earmark a spot in the lineup for you. And if you are going to miss a raid, please let the raid leader or officers know in advance - this lets them know that you care about the success of the raid and helps them plan around your absence.

    Raids usually go much more smoothly when players are in their most comfortable roles. If too many people miss raids at random, then officers are forced to stick different players in key roles from raid to raid and it slows progress.

    And from a leadership perspective, if officers are flaky on attendance then it not only stalls progression but it sends a message to others that its OK to do the same. Leading by example goes a long way - as a raid leader you're not only herding cats, you're also shaping the culture of your guild.

    tl;dr: Be reliable.
    Reliable attendance
    Reliable execution of mechanics
    Reliable numbers
    Last edited by ginc; 02-20-2014 at 08:15 AM.
    Garbageday - mediocre Cleric Tank / Raid Lead for -Vendetta- (Greybriar) - 4/4 Rhen of Fate, 4/5 Mount Sharax

    GDAAAY NOOOOO

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mav986 View Post

    Don't focus so much on numbers, unless it's required for the fight
    DPS is usually one of the least important things for boss fights. The only times DPS numbers should be a priority are on very specific fights, such as Eggtenders, which is built around a very tight enrage timer. Be proud of your dps, just don't flaunt it.
    It's interesting how you point out Eggtenders as a "tight enrage."

    While this guide may be aimed at mainly T1 raiding, generally on ANY progression encounter you can't carry half your raid who are pulling thousands less than they should. It needs to be burned into people's minds that low dps is unacceptable.

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    Being behind by a 2k-3k DPS is fine in T2s, accounting for gear gaps and mechanics forcing people to stop DPS. Being behind by 30%+ is unacceptable.

    Gear matters, but it doesn't matter as much as a strong rotation. A expert blues/greens lvl 60 Cleric that barely has enough hit for T1s can do 9k DPS as Inquisitor rather easily just by knowing the rotation and the fight. That same cleric in T1s should be ripping out 16k rather easily. Having over 30% DPS difference between anyone of a similar class and skill level means you're doing something horribly wrong and likely to get the boot from a raid.

    That means stop running your random "I did it myself!" specs and a min-maxed spec and rotation down. Raiding is not about personal pride. It is about doing the best possible and not using the resources out there means you're a hindrance at least and an unconquerable hurdle if you're that bad, and most people are that bad.

    Don't be that one guy.
    Last edited by evantide; 02-20-2014 at 09:21 AM.
    Meciel - Mage - Defer Death - Greybriar
    12/12 T1, 14/15 T2, 1/9 T3

  12. #12
    Plane Walker Mav986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardor View Post
    Conversely, as a raid leader,

    1) Realize that there often are multiple published strategies for every given boss fight. Don't expect new members to be able to read your mind and know which variation you are using. It won't kill you to take 30 seconds to describe how things are going to go.

    There may be multiple strategies, but my point was learning about what happens in the fight, not learning a strategy.

    2) Encourage sharing of consumables/crafted items/etc. as needed. It's supposed to be a team. If you treat them like a set of isolated individuals outside of raids, you can expect them to work like a set of disconnected individuals in a raid.

    As I mentioned, having to provide consumables for several people every day or two can quickly cause that raid leader to bring other people who are more prepared. If you're not willing to spend 10-15 minutes a day, or 30 minutes once a week like some people do, to get your own consumables sorted, then why should the raid leader do it for you?

    3) Acknowledge that there is some possibility that someone playing a class that you don't play yourself knows something that you might learn. Too many raid leaders have very rigid ideas about what certain roles can and should do, and those preconceptions are often totally wrong. When you're right, be patient in how you explain it. Acting like you're smarter than everyone is a good way for your team to start resenting/hating you.

    I agree with this, although I'm not sure how it came up. I said to learn your class, not learn everybody elses class. The point is, if you want to be a better raider, you need to know the limits of your own class.

    4) If you are not open to having a 30-second conversation before or after fights to see what could be improved upon, then you should not be a raid leader. If fielding suggestions stresses you out, you have no business being a raid leader. If you are not interested in listening to others, and to learning, then you are missing out on a lot, in-game, and in real life. If, as a raid leader, you feel you need special treatment, and that somehow you are constantly persecuted by your own team, then you are not suited to being a raid leader. Stop doing it.

    If you have to spend 2-3 minutes after each wipe 'fielding suggestions', it will quickly build up over the night to 20-30, 40-60, or even more. Like I said, suggestions are fine, but most of the time a good raid leader will already recognize what needs fixing. Being open to taking suggestions =/= being the guy 8-9 different people whisper saying "Do it like this" "change this" "we need to have this" after every attempt.

    5) don't verbally abuse people and then accuse them of not being able to take "constructive criticism" when they stand up for themselves. As a raid leader, you are not infallible. Sometimes you can be factually right, but because you were an a**hole about it, it doesn't matter. Your members have lots of choices of other guilds they could go to. Don't be a d*** to your team. Otherwise, you don't have a team, you have a randomly-assembled set of individuals, most of which are just there today for the loot, and fantasizing about the day they get the will to leave your guild and never have to deal with your ******baggery again.

    Uh, again, not quite sure how this relates... not being a ******bag is kind of a standard rule in life, let alone video games...

    6) Don't say that numbers aren't of primary importance, but then turn around and brag about your numbers or encourage individuals in your raid to brag about theirs. Healthy competition can be good. De-emphasizing numbers in favor of raid awareness can be good. Whichever way you want to go is probably fine. But having a raid leader who's perceived as a hypocrite is never good.

    ... I don't think you're even reading my post at this point, as I never once encouraged anyone to brag. In fact I'm pretty sure the last line of that paragraph was "Be proud, just don't flaunt".

    I'm not talking about anyone in particular here, I just thought I'd give some counterpoints. As someone who has been a raid leader (sometimes successfully and sometimes not), and who has also raided with a lot of different groups, I've seen and done pretty much all the good and bad about raid leaders.

    Basically: don't be a raid leader if you hate people, or if you're not willing to lead by example. Just don't. Cheers!
    /tenchars.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker Mav986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ginc View Post
    There's one very obvious thing you left out on how to earn a raid spot: showing up!

    If you cannot actually commit to a guild's raid schedule and show up reliably, then raid leaders and officers will not earmark a spot in the lineup for you. And if you are going to miss a raid, please let the raid leader or officers know in advance - this lets them know that you care about the success of the raid and helps them plan around your absence.

    Raids usually go much more smoothly when players are in their most comfortable roles. If too many people miss raids at random, then officers are forced to stick different players in key roles from raid to raid and it slows progress.

    And from a leadership perspective, if officers are flaky on attendance then it not only stalls progression but it sends a message to others that its OK to do the same. Leading by example goes a long way - as a raid leader you're not only herding cats, you're also shaping the culture of your guild.

    tl;dr: Be reliable.
    Reliable attendance
    Reliable execution of mechanics
    Reliable numbers
    Very good point, and I think I had wanted to include it, however it looks like I forgot it. Will try to hopefully get edit permissions for the post to add it in.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Mav986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    It's interesting how you point out Eggtenders as a "tight enrage."

    While this guide may be aimed at mainly T1 raiding, generally on ANY progression encounter you can't carry half your raid who are pulling thousands less than they should. It needs to be burned into people's minds that low dps is unacceptable.
    As the one guy above said, there are some fights that a couple thousand dps wont make or break you. Might take 10-20 seconds longer to kill, but it will still go down. Granted, I haven't cleared t2, but from what I HAVE seen in PB and IG, is that most fights are not as unforgiving with enrage timers as Eggtenders is, especially when first starting.

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer Allmightyone's Avatar
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    I don't agree with the dps part of your guide. The easiest path to earning a raid spot is that 'wow' factor. If you impress the people you want to raid with you will earn your spot. More dps is far more impressive then low dps.

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