[List] A collection of suggestions to fix PVP

[RycoRobyn]

The prob is the population is not what is was then. The game has no place for mass cc soul unless something like conquest was to return.

I believe you are talking about Cabalist?

I prefer it not turn in a dps soul, I like the utility. It could use more heal/shields and more survivability. Giving it a large dps boost would make it OP for the amount of utility it has.

I remember the passive % gained per skill point was not 1% damage but like 0.75% damage, 0.5% HP or something like that.

Dominator back then wasn't popular because of the damage but because of the ability to completely shut down a healer or a primary dps target.

I like the idea of above. It is basically the hard counter for some cheating players.


Wakanda forever!

[Learan]

I believe you are talking about Cabalist?



I remember the passive % gained per skill point was not 1% damage but like 0.75% damage, 0.5% HP or something like that.

Dominator back then wasn't popular because of the damage but because of the ability to completely shut down a healer or a primary dps target.

I like the idea of above. It is basically the hard counter for some cheating players.


Wakanda forever!

Dom has a lot of mass cc too but its survivability sucks. What do you think of a cloaking ability on cd similar to nb?Otherwise it would need the benefit from pain armor increased from 10-30%

[RycoRobyn]

Dom has a lot of mass cc too but its survivability sucks. What do you think of a cloaking ability on cd similar to nb?Otherwise it would need the benefit from pain armor increased from 10-30%

Personally, I'm not a fan of stealth. I play Harb and I think the 4 seconds combat stealth is already ridiculous.

Dominator pre-NMT was already tough to kill. If brought back to the current meta and paired with 15 Arbiter with Arcane Ward on, Frostkeeper Legendary Rime, it will be so hard to kill, most mediocre DPS would simply run or ignore the Dom. Competent DPS can still kill the Dom in an acceptable timeframe. Even with TTK buffed to 100%.

The game already has so many stealth abilities (lol Reaver), I'd figure players will start complaining about Dom with stealth really fast.


Wakanda forever!

[Learan]

Personally, I'm not a fan of stealth. I play Harb and I think the 4 seconds combat stealth is already ridiculous.

Dominator pre-NMT was already tough to kill. If brought back to the current meta and paired with 15 Arbiter with Arcane Ward on, Frostkeeper Legendary Rime, it will be so hard to kill, most mediocre DPS would simply run or ignore the Dom. Competent DPS can still kill the Dom in an acceptable timeframe. Even with TTK buffed to 100%.

The game already has so many stealth abilities (lol Reaver), I'd figure players will start complaining about Dom with stealth really fast.


Wakanda forever!

Not sure how long the stealth of warrior is but I believe Harb is the shortest duration in the game.

[RycoRobyn]

Not sure how long the stealth of warrior is but I believe Harb is the shortest duration in the game.

Yes, it is, and it's also a combat stealth, which means it can be cast mid-combat, much like Cloak of Death in Reaver, but it also force-crits the next 3 abilities.

I main a Harb now. I benefit from this, but out of fairness and honesty, I think it's a bit overtuned. Of course, you can't compare Harb's output with Riftblade, Paragon, Inquisitor, Bladedancer, Sharknado or even Warlock, but you can't argue that Harb is really strong. I would compare Harb to Assassin and Shaman when it comes to performance.

The stealth you might be looking for is probably something like Cabalist's Shadow Breach:



Anything similar to Assassin's or even Nightblade's stealth is quite OP, tbh.


Wakanda forever!

[Wrastion]

To me harb is like an 8/10 on dps, and the only soul to have 10/10 on every other important thing like CC, CC breaks, speed, ports that break CC and force players to lose targeting, some self heals with some damage mitigation and one really good mitigation, and its not completely melee like paragon. It wont. blow up players as quick as the 10/10 other dps souls, but it has everything else you want plus sustained. The combo of tons of CC plus not being held back by enemy CC overtunes it. It was made dps viable for pve with no thought to its overloaded utility on pvp. Most souls going 1-1 vs a harb die with the harb still over half health or more. It kills pretty darn quick for everything else it has. If dps wasnt king it would be the best soul in game pvp wise, imo.

Dom, currently, is pretty useless due to dps outweighing utility by a far margin. I kill doms in the timeframe of my breakfrees, unless they go arb for tankiness and receive heals. Even playing cleric a dom cant counter me much like they used to, and cleric is the most susceptible to a dom (its what dom was made to counter during the reign of sentinels). At one point sent was like current warrior-it took 3-4 players to finally kill me on my sent, if I died at all. Dom seriously messed up cleric buffs and mana so you only needed 1 dom and a sin to kill a cleric, eventually.

I dont think they can do much with dom with the current state of things. I myself never would have buffed dps by 100%. I probably would have by 50% and instead fixed the out of whack healing souls instead.

One issue with balancing, however, is that with multiple cheaters its hard to find a baseline for who can do what. A good example is a rogue has come to my attention that at first I thought played well, but more recent they are topping charts and doing questionable things in game. Yesterday they had 500k + hellfire blades damage with the main NB finisher covering 70k damage and no other ability over 100k. Hellfire blades was ridiculously the main damage. This over a 2 minute parse. When healing the legendary maint therapy is their top heal. From my limited understanding, these legendaries and proc abilities are what an autoclicker abuses. Im not 100% certain, but generally speaking when Ive felt something is off it eventually pans out. This same rogue insta stealthed (non slip away build) after engaging me and killing me on my healing mage in a wf, and I have played NB for like 7 years and never remember it popping instantly like that. I noticed my life blowing up way fast and checked their parse and hellfire is top, always, even when not around multiple opponents. Im pretty certain more players are abusing the autoclickers and proccing things multiple times-that being how many times they can be glitched to proc more then intended.

Until these cheats are fixed the true baseline of souls cant be seen by all, or rather many peoples ideas of how a soul performs is skewed, especially if several players of certain souls are doing it, then it just looks normal or that the “better skilled” players only can perform thus. As weve seen, multiple players of the same calling/souls tend to over abuse these cheats, specifically rogue (fact) and in my belief warrior calling gets abused thus too, more so then other callings.

Feel free to tell me your own observations anyone can observe what I just stated and give a logical answer or confirm what Im mentioning.

[Wrastion]

Not sure how long the stealth of warrior is but I believe Harb is the shortest duration in the game.

Reaver was nerfed a while back in 2015 when they basically nerfed me and my pull-kicking (the single most one person nerf the game ever had), and generally currently is a subpar choice then the other, Op souls. Its not bad, however, it just lacks any finishers of good burst.

The best tactic if engaging 1v1 is to all-dot the player enemy with one button, then enter stealth and literally sit in stealth while the medium damaging dots do their work. You usually have to waste your port to move out of your last seen spot as well. I tend to get max distance and open up as my stealth ends and run keeping up dots. This kills most souls but those with heals or damage mitigation. The stealth doesnt last long-6 seconds I think. You also move extremely slow. It wasnt well thought out.

Without this tactic reaver is pretty weak head on and easy to kill. Its single stealth makes it manageable in the game, but its still a lesser choice played soul then the three other easier ones. Its stealth isnt too long, but its a weird thing to put in a ranged soul imo. Reaver needs a buff to its finisher to be an actual decently played ranged soul when faced with players playing OP souls.

[RycoRobyn]

To me harb is like an 8/10 on dps, and the only soul to have 10/10 on every other important thing like CC, CC breaks, speed, ports that break CC and force players to lose targeting, some self heals with some damage mitigation and one really good mitigation, and its not completely melee like paragon. It wont. blow up players as quick as the 10/10 other dps souls, but it has everything else you want plus sustained. The combo of tons of CC plus not being held back by enemy CC overtunes it. It was made dps viable for pve with no thought to its overloaded utility on pvp. Most souls going 1-1 vs a harb die with the harb still over half health or more. It kills pretty darn quick for everything else it has. If dps wasnt king it would be the best soul in game pvp wise, imo.

Everything Harb can, Inquisitor can do better from 35m range 100% of the time. Before Prophecy of Ahnket hit the RIFT servers, Inquisitor was the top PVP soul for years. Also, if DPS wasn't king, Assassin would be the best PVP soul due to its permastealth and spam-stuns.

Dom, currently, is pretty useless due to dps outweighing utility by a far margin. I kill doms in the timeframe of my breakfrees, unless they go arb for tankiness and receive heals. Even playing cleric a dom cant counter me much like they used to, and cleric is the most susceptible to a dom (its what dom was made to counter during the reign of sentinels). At one point sent was like current warrior-it took 3-4 players to finally kill me on my sent, if I died at all. Dom seriously messed up cleric buffs and mana so you only needed 1 dom and a sin to kill a cleric, eventually.

Not many doms around to have a benchmark tho. The only one playing dom at a somehow decent level is Nixxed.

I dont think they can do much with dom with the current state of things. I myself never would have buffed dps by 100%. I probably would have by 50% and instead fixed the out of whack healing souls instead.

Well, if they actually targetted the outliers, as Keyens, the main class dev back then, was tasked to do before he resigned, they wouldn't even have had to nerf TTK by any %. Bladedancer and Farseer were the outliers. Had they fixed those souls instead, PVP would be in a much better state right now.

One issue with balancing, however, is that with multiple cheaters its hard to find a baseline for who can do what. A good example is a rogue has come to my attention that at first I thought played well, but more recent they are topping charts and doing questionable things in game. Yesterday they had 500k + hellfire blades damage with the main NB finisher covering 70k damage and no other ability over 100k. Hellfire blades was ridiculously the main damage. This over a 2 minute parse. When healing the legendary maint therapy is their top heal. From my limited understanding, these legendaries and proc abilities are what an autoclicker abuses. Im not 100% certain, but generally speaking when Ive felt something is off it eventually pans out. This same rogue insta stealthed (non slip away build) after engaging me and killing me on my healing mage in a wf, and I have played NB for like 7 years and never remember it popping instantly like that. I noticed my life blowing up way fast and checked their parse and hellfire is top, always, even when not around multiple opponents. Im pretty certain more players are abusing the autoclickers and proccing things multiple times-that being how many times they can be glitched to proc more then intended.

Legendary Flame Blitz applies 5 Fiery Spikes each time it hits the target. Flame Blitz hits up to 3 targets. That would be 15 Fiery Spikes in total each hit. Each Fiery Spike hit and each Flame Blitz hit procs Hellfire Blades. Add in the passive ticks of Fiery Spike, Living Flame (which also casts Fiery spike with each tick) and Dusk to Dawn. They all proc Hellfire Blades. Now you know why I requested Hellfire Blades to be limited on how many targets it can be proc'd on.

Also, you are most likely talking about Lotusss. He is sharing some exploit knowledge with Konstantene. They even party'd together and abused the Virulent Haste bug together in a team. I wouldn't be surprised really if he used the stealth exploit as well.

Until these cheats are fixed the true baseline of souls cant be seen by all, or rather many peoples ideas of how a soul performs is skewed, especially if several players of certain souls are doing it, then it just looks normal or that the “better skilled” players only can perform thus. As weve seen, multiple players of the same calling/souls tend to over abuse these cheats, specifically rogue (fact) and in my belief warrior calling gets abused thus too, more so then other callings.

Warrior is already being exploited hard with Riftblade (2 avatar mastery bug) and with Warlord (Decisive Strike bug). Autoclicker is very useful especially with Warlord since it has 3 offgcd abilties (Backhand, Arterial Strike, Retaliation). If you want to know more about how you can exploit/cheat on Warrior, just ask sylaen.


Wakanda forever!

[AVGVSTVS]

To me harb is like an 8/10 on dps, and the only soul to have 10/10 on every other important thing like CC, CC breaks, speed, ports that break CC and force players to lose targeting, some self heals with some damage mitigation and one really good mitigation, and its not completely melee like paragon. It wont. blow up players as quick as the 10/10 other dps souls, but it has everything else you want plus sustained. The combo of tons of CC plus not being held back by enemy CC overtunes it. It was made dps viable for pve with no thought to its overloaded utility on pvp. Most souls going 1-1 vs a harb die with the harb still over half health or more. It kills pretty darn quick for everything else it has. If dps wasnt king it would be the best soul in game pvp wise, imo.

Dom, currently, is pretty useless due to dps outweighing utility by a far margin. I kill doms in the timeframe of my breakfrees, unless they go arb for tankiness and receive heals. Even playing cleric a dom cant counter me much like they used to, and cleric is the most susceptible to a dom (its what dom was made to counter during the reign of sentinels). At one point sent was like current warrior-it took 3-4 players to finally kill me on my sent, if I died at all. Dom seriously messed up cleric buffs and mana so you only needed 1 dom and a sin to kill a cleric, eventually.

I dont think they can do much with dom with the current state of things. I myself never would have buffed dps by 100%. I probably would have by 50% and instead fixed the out of whack healing souls instead.

One issue with balancing, however, is that with multiple cheaters its hard to find a baseline for who can do what. A good example is a rogue has come to my attention that at first I thought played well, but more recent they are topping charts and doing questionable things in game. Yesterday they had 500k + hellfire blades damage with the main NB finisher covering 70k damage and no other ability over 100k. Hellfire blades was ridiculously the main damage. This over a 2 minute parse. When healing the legendary maint therapy is their top heal. From my limited understanding, these legendaries and proc abilities are what an autoclicker abuses. Im not 100% certain, but generally speaking when Ive felt something is off it eventually pans out. This same rogue insta stealthed (non slip away build) after engaging me and killing me on my healing mage in a wf, and I have played NB for like 7 years and never remember it popping instantly like that. I noticed my life blowing up way fast and checked their parse and hellfire is top, always, even when not around multiple opponents. Im pretty certain more players are abusing the autoclickers and proccing things multiple times-that being how many times they can be glitched to proc more then intended.

Until these cheats are fixed the true baseline of souls cant be seen by all, or rather many peoples ideas of how a soul performs is skewed, especially if several players of certain souls are doing it, then it just looks normal or that the “better skilled” players only can perform thus. As weve seen, multiple players of the same calling/souls tend to over abuse these cheats, specifically rogue (fact) and in my belief warrior calling gets abused thus too, more so then other callings.

Feel free to tell me your own observations anyone can observe what I just stated and give a logical answer or confirm what Im mentioning.

Ya know you once told me you swore that ppl were cheating by manipulating packets sent to the server to get more damage.. It just seems like anyone who dominates you is cheating,.

Lock can blow up a health bar as you escape it ticks on you for longer than the ttk. Mystic archer is a full blown complete and utter balance pitfall in terms of balance.

[AVGVSTVS]

Everything Harb can, Inquisitor can do better from 35m range 100% of the time. Before Prophecy of Ahnket hit the RIFT servers, Inquisitor was the top PVP soul for years. Also, if DPS wasn't king, Assassin would be the best PVP soul due to its permastealth and spam-stuns.



Not many doms around to have a benchmark tho. The only one playing dom at a somehow decent level is Nixxed.



Well, if they actually targetted the outliers, as Keyens, the main class dev back then, was tasked to do before he resigned, they wouldn't even had have to nerf TTK by any %. Bladedancer and Farseer were the outliers. Had they fixed those souls instead, PVP would be in a much better state right now.



Legendary Flame Blitz applies 5 Fiery Spikes each time it hits the target. Flame Blitz hits up to 3 targets. That would be 15 Fiery Spikes in total each hit. Each Fiery Spike hit and each Flame Blitz hit procs Hellfire Blades. Add in the passive ticks of Fiery Spike, Living Flame (which also casts Fiery spike with each tick) and Dusk to Dawn. They all proc Hellfire Blades. Now you know why I requested Hellfire Blades to be limited on how many targets it can be proc'd on.

Also, you are most likely talking about Lotusss. He is sharing some exploit knowledge with Konstantene. They even party'd together and abused the Virulent Haste bug together in a team. I wouldn't be surprised really if he used the stealth exploit as well.



Warrior is already being exploited hard with Riftblade (2 avatar mastery bug) and with Warlord (Decisive Strike bug). Autoclicker is very useful especially with Warlord since it has 3 offgcd abilties (Backhand, Arterial Strike, Retaliation). If you want to know more about how you can exploit/cheat on Warrior, just ask sylaen.


Wakanda forever!

You're accusing ppl of using autoclicker that dont even use them. but thanks we'lll look into it.

[Wrastion]

Ya know you once told me you swore that ppl were cheating by manipulating packets sent to the server to get more damage.. It just seems like anyone who dominates you is cheating,.

Lock can blow up a health bar as you escape it ticks on you for longer than the ttk. Mystic archer is a full blown complete and utter balance pitfall in terms of balance.

I told you I had heard that was how people were cheating. The person who told me this stated 3 of their friends used to do that. The person who told me this is a very good, long term player who doesn't get into forum stuff much, nor am I “friends” with them. I had no reason to disbelieve their matter-of-fact statement.

To point there factually are (now proven) multiple ways people have been cheating. If you want to make a logical guess that probably was going on as well. Its just not the go-to easier method being found out with autoclickers.

If you want to find hypocrisy we can discuss who champions true skill and harder to play souls should = better results with someone who exploits, knowingly, a single macro to spam serpent strike over and over resulting in killing a player not by serpent strike, but from all the free (proc) poisons the cheat produces. Thats the opposite of skilled play.

Ive never been a hypocrite so you can chime in with excuses. Also, your welcome for being the biggest whistleblower on cheating in game and being correct that underhanded things have/were being abused (cheating). Seriously is everyone but hurt Ive been right all along?

Btw part of my real life job is assessment and specifically investigating criminal activity. Ive interviewed thousands of people getting them to admit to crimes (and writing it down on paper ) to things I already knew, and things I had no clue they did. There is a method to psychologically read people and figure things out. I could write pages on this, but suffice it to say your ethical level was an easy read as well as other posters to the point you guys practically were screaming “No! Dont ruin my cheating method! No!”

In this case I was not an expert on all the methods to cheating, but when you smell a skunk...

Eventually knowledgable people on such methods came forward and lo and behold. Wow what cheating has been going on.

Sad that you (now-if you didnt already before) realize players are using lazy as get out autoclickers to cheat and you've addressed it how many times or cried out in outrage? No, you'd rather try to demean the guy who helped bring things to light? Like i said, easy to read which side of the integrity fence you firmly sit on.

You should stop talking to me I will just end up making you look foolish.

[Wrastion]

You're accusing ppl of using autoclicker that dont even use them. but thanks we'lll look into it.

Just an fyi on logic. He actually explained hellfire blades in detail to naysay the probability of said person using an autoclicker. It was a civil reply to a question.

He pointed out, however, that certain people are abusing the game in one manner so...lets do the police work together here....

Who would you start investigating for cheats of all manners? People knowingly abusing exploits, or those not? Hmmm I will give you a couple of days to come up with that answer.

[AVGVSTVS]

this stuff has been here for years. Roughraptors "if it's in the game it's an intended feature"

[Wrastion]

this stuff has been here for years. Roughraptors "if it's in the game it's an intended feature"

Oh, if roughraptors said it then...golly gee who am I to disagree.

Wait...wait. I have it from a very credible source, Ronald Mcdonald, that is the most BS line ever.

Obviously everyone knows the Ronald trumps roughraptors when it comes to legit sources.

[AVGVSTVS]

Oh, if roughraptors said it then...golly gee who am I to disagree.

Wait...wait. I have it from a very credible source, Ronald Mcdonald, that is the most BS line ever.

Obviously everyone knows the Ronald trumps roughraptors when it comes to legit sources.

Didn't you tell me that roughraptors used an autoclicker?