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Thread: Thresher's Maw...hmm...

  1. #46
    Ascendant Shas's Avatar
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    Hey i remember having a random duell in open world a while back. I was Bladedancer (default 15 0 i think) and decidet to try 85% dodge against Paragon (same T2).

    Strike Back absolutely murdered him. This was open world though and i wonder what's the WF scaling of it?


    Oh and to instant mounting and mounts on small maps.

    You remember the Guardian starter zone where you borrow a mount?
    Current mount maps (Codex, whitefall etc) could just have the option to borrow a fancy horse with fixed speed at spawn and once you dismount, only mount option remains at spawn.
    /Only allow you to use your own mounts at spawn, ride anywhere but only re- mount at spawn.

    Yes, people will quick swap to mobility specs- but that is 1) Way more tactical 2) Risks getting caught in travel form

    What do you think of that?
    Last edited by Shas; 12-20-2020 at 11:56 PM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Name another vet player and Plus was doing 30% or higher on anything he was attempting, heals or dps. He didn't constantly run with a archon or bard to do this, he just did it random wf after random wf. It is also extremely interesting to note, that most people who catch onto oddity, see that these players look to jump too far. I know a lot of players don't also have Rift Meter to see the egregious numbers compared to everyone else, but visually they see things are off. As explained, I believe its the speed hacking that makes the jump further and it's what people tend to notice along with (wow that guy is moving really, really fast even for a X or Y). Not to be rude, but I'm pretty firm in this and to me mentioning a guy that pushes out ridiculous, unheard of numbers invalidates any point you had, to me. To further invalidate your idea that outside things were pushing these numbers, I've played 100's of wf's with Plus in them. It's not a random archon buff or bard buff that's "making" his output look high. It's really just that high. Oh and to clarify, when I say 60k + Rift Bursts, I'm not talking against non-geared players. He was consistent.

    I don't disagree with your assessment on cleric, and believe it is spot on. I did state already, previously, that I thought overall dps should be nerfed along with certain heals, and that, to me, would equal more balanced play and help out less-used souls like those with utility. Then you could buff up a lot of the other souls. At this point, counter would have to be some amazing utility to stop max geared players who generally kill people in 8 globals.
    I literally posted a video with Plus playing the spec and your buddy playing the usual MM in the same warfront in 2019. I have seen other rogues get 10K+ HPS. You can get more with better party makeup, use of consumables etc. Others have played it long ago but don't play Rift anymore which is why you probably can not remember them. It started getting more play after they fixed some issues they introduced earlier to Phys/Bard in the expansion.

    You always bring up the fact I must not PvP. Do you ever wonder how I know how these classes work to some degree. Maybe you should assume I used the spec as well. Yes, I admit I didn't know about the SS bug since I am not out looking for it but I can see why people found it because the legendary itself is misleading. The legendary MoP states VH is supposed to reset the CD of SS when it procs but it doesn't until you clear it. Instead, if you choose not to clear the CD it allows you to use it 2 or 3 times in a row when it comes off the CD. I tried both ways and see there is slightly more DPS with it when you clear it. The big deal with spamming SS over using other abilities is the damage type of SS.

    Some players have brought up the fact that rogue is a very solid support healer(even threads you make them out to be generally bad comparatively.) For what they can bring to the table it's worth using. There are different versions of that spec as well.. There are rogues who use it and don't cleanse AT ALL and ones that do which is why I brought it up. There are specs that do well in terms of damage negation. Removing damage vs. healing through damage has to be evaluated as a factor for counter balance. If you are constantly stuck on HPS and Healing at end of warfront you are neglecting other factors (which are counter balance factors that are way overlooked because it is not determined through meters.)

    Point is that if you are constantly removing 20-30Kish + dot DPS from multiple players because you actually built it for cleansing, that damage removal isn't going to be shown on the charts at the end of warfronts or be seen on an HPS meter. You have a one-dimensional focus on end of warfront Healing done and HPS which is what makes your suggestions for class balancing or what is wrong with the state of the game less valuable in my opinion. This is a big problem because you are giving too much weight to an issue that could not be the problem at all or a solution to a problem.

    I think warlock survival is too high because of synergy and Neddra's Essence should be disabled in PvP. Sure they can use a DoT damage nerf but nothing too out of line. Nothing that they did to cleric or tempest for example. They need some buff in other areas because no other range dps specs fall in line with the potential of the other classes. It would leave them in a poor position. The balance should be a focus on burst frequency and functionality along with burst damage as well..

    Right now every class is capable of bursting each other down in a few globals. This is what makes things semi-balanced. It is an oversimplified way to making every class feel viable at least. If you need to deal only 350K Damage to kill a player and everyone can achieve 400K in a short manner it matters less that someone can do 500K since everyone has already exceeded the max necessary to kill each other. In general, everyone will feel at least in some way their class "works." TTK can go up dramatically from many sources and that is when the remaining damage is apparently the most useful. The problem is so widespread and the required effort to fix this will be reworking so many playstyles, the community will not like it as a whole. Can you imagine the backlash if everyone had to debuff the same target for up to 15 secs in order so they can burst that target only and if the target vanishes or leaves combat you have to restart your debuffing again? Or if they relied on an interruptible burst during a 1 min CD? Or a cleansable Deep Freeze? TTK will be so high. Cleric is the only outlier in that fashion. As others have said they should just be changed to behave in the same manner so that at least they can enjoy the game just as much as others.

    I never believed that a particular class should be "more rewarding" to play with more effort but rather souls in all classes should in PvE if it required more effort. That was always a flawed idea. If the game was built where you simply can play every class on one toon and only needed you to go to an NPC to change your class and trade in your gear for the similar gear it would make more sense but this game doesn't so it never made sense to target nerf one class or design it with heavy limitations.

    As for hacking(if you are referring to that warfront) .. Maybe you don't remember? But that warfront was done at a time where the terrain mechanics were all messed up and allowed players to climb up walls. If you are referring to something else I really don't know what you mean. Anyway, I am not going to name and shame players..

    You have to realize you don't and will possibly never know how these players manage to do what they do. It doesn't necessarily have to be a "Hack." They may have figured a way to play the game in a way that you have not figured out.

    I admit I don't know everything but I don't make myself out to know everything and since I know how to reproduce big damage and substitute the loss of damage in comparison for not using all the consumables or reliquary etc. I don't really think they are hacking but having great use of consumables. Maybe players use things that shouldn't work in warfronts. Like the healing shields, the summon NPC trinkets etc. Maybe even some stupid quest buff that shouldn't work in warfronts but does.. WTFKNS.

    Here is a suggestion. Go look through the miscellaneous recipes for an apothecary. I am sure there are a lot of things you don't know that is possible and may not be hacking. Do you open up the healing HPS meter and actually see the heal consumable stacking? Those players play the game in ways you will not do it. Like who waste plat on Critical Strike Pots in PvP? Most people don't do it but I have seen others actually do it. Also, when they are getting pocketed healed they use their reliquary offensively instead of defensively which means they are able to stay at a higher DPS. If this is what you overlook you may just as well ask for consumables to not work at all in PvP.. it would go a long way of getting to a balancing point among all players. Many lack the funding or simply don't want to be bothered with using all of them. You can find some other bonuses with certain foods as well from survival crafting. And again I am going to say it TTK can be very high but usually is not because not many players know how to manage consumables or utility.

    For instance, the other day I was facing an MM user with my Rogue and they were way more decked out but I interrupted their RFS and sent them to respawn. They play MM 24/7 and don't even use interrupt. I have done this to so many warriors as well and a warrior should flatten an MM easily.

    About the instant mount. I was complaining about this ever since Silver Tier was made available for that insane package back before they tried to rehash Rift. Similarly more people have acquired it with the last round of offers. So again at the same time in a later year we see it brought up. Nothing new. I think the best and easiest fix is to make you dismount 100% on damage taken. Put a Dot on the player and they will get stuck trying to mount. It still keeps it somewhat useful in warfronts.

    Keep in mind that sometimes it is better to stagger your kills so that they all don't respawn at the same time. If your team just took a victory by wiping out the other side but it was hard-fought and you are stuck getting out of combat or drinking.. (or a derp 61 puri using Flame of Life Legendary that prevents you from drinking etc.) they can all respawn at the same time and get back to you before your party is healed or can cap. You can have very high damage and KB but it may also be the reason your team loss by a few points because you kept resetting their HP bars and sending them en mass to reclaim objectives your teammates are trying to cap. This can happen in most maps. A good player or a player who plays to win may have a totally obscure way of playing where they time for the perfect kill(the one that makes them win the game) not the maximum kill count and DPS. And the perfect death.

    Your mate just went to the respawn. He has 9 secs. left. You have chance to barely live if you run away or deal as much maximum damage in those few secs. You can either run away and spend 20 secs drinking or deal your burst and get rez. in less than 9 with full health and another burst sequence ready when you enter the next engagement with backup because you respawned at the same time with an ally. While most of your team is fighting over that last hit on that one player. A couple of good players would have figured that player will die so it's better off to just run off to protect the objective that is most likely the next to be attacked. A worst-case scenario is when players waste their burst CD's on nearly dead targets. One person runs into a group.. Whole team waste all their burst.. and then the other team has all their burst up when they don't.. it is really silly but it happens often. Avatar: Drake or Inquisitor users wasting their burst on nearly dead target and having to wait for the 1 min reset. Others can get away with being sort of sloppy since their main damage cycle happens much more often..
    Last edited by Aedynn; 12-21-2020 at 05:53 PM.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    lots of stuff I literally already know
    The quote says it all. Im actually amazed you dont know I talk more on the forums about each and every subject you repeat to me every time we talk, in more detail. In short, I know about each and everything you talked about and do indeed look at the breakdown of everything. How the heck do you think I keep mentioning all of it in the first place? Im simply comparing it to everyone else. Im just going to leave this at that because its tiresome reading paragraph after paragraph of things I already pay attention to/do. You do realize Im a beta player full 70 every toon? If you would like I can teach you some more exploits/tricks just like SS.

    Ive still no clue who your toons are btw.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 12-21-2020 at 06:18 PM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    If you would like I can teach you some more exploits/tricks just like SS.
    SS bug is not a hack. That is different than what you claim people are doing. Secondly, you have never ever once said anything to me about SS bug. Sha has been very vocal on the bug forums. I never seen the SS bug posted there and was thrown off by Ryco since there is no way to CANCELBUFF SERPENT STRIKE because serpent strike is not a buff... facepalm.Thirdly, if you knew about the bug why did you not just post it on forums. Why so quick to jump to players are hacking? I give all full credit to Syl..

    I've hit players for 58K+ Rift Burst without feast and just using weapon consumables, no vials. I am not a hacker.. lmao.
    Last edited by Aedynn; 12-21-2020 at 07:20 PM.

  5. #50
    Ascendant Shas's Avatar
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    I think there are less instances of hacks (tweaking game files) than intentional exploits.

    There are things like SS which is part of many builds and not getting normal ss even requires extra effort.

    And there is 'no gcd sentinel' or 'low point coalescence' instances which are knowingly set up to achieve the unfair advantage.

    And even in case of 'exploits' there still is the chance that it adds to the overall gameplay value.
    Some weird exploits like no gcd Sentinel, Retaliation and maybe even normal SS are open to debate if they open up new gameplay options and perhaps even are quite 'balanced' by chance.

    And then there is Coalescence, Serpent spam, Harb no dmg taken, Bolster bypassing gear - which is up to the community to take action, aggree on gentlemen's terms and kick from your team whenever spotted. Whenever there is an "i win" strategy or setup, it should raise concerns and it's on the individual to value a good time over cheap wins.

    Warlord Koth crits for DS are a blatiant exploit. But it simply turned into a core WL mechanic.
    Not every find is evil and you got to give everyone the chance to know about it.

    Generaly speaking
    -> If you or your friends are running 'tricks' that have to be kept secrit in order to not lose them to patches, you are literaly not interested in a healthy envoirnment and might need to reconsider your priorities ^^
    Sometimes, pvp insights appear more like it is a post apocalyptic free for all than a spare time game with all chances for fair play.
    "Someone will always use it" - yes sure, just don't be that someone.

    Surely can't tell pvp mains how to pvp- but those are matters that keep people from hopping in.
    Last edited by Shas; 12-21-2020 at 08:46 PM.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    SS bug is not a hack. That is different than what you claim people are doing. Secondly, you have never ever once said anything to me about SS bug. Sha has been very vocal on the bug forums. I never seen the SS bug posted there and was thrown off by Ryco since there is no way to CANCELBUFF SERPENT STRIKE because serpent strike is not a buff... facepalm.Thirdly, if you knew about the bug why did you not just post it on forums. Why so quick to jump to players are hacking? I give all full credit to Syl..

    I've hit players for 58K+ Rift Burst without feast and just using weapon consumables, no vials. I am not a hacker.. lmao.
    1. If you knew anything you would know you shouldn’t publicly post on the forums the bug. What, then do you think everyone will start doing?
    2. Its why I wrote a CM. See my response about personally talking to a CM. Actually read my posts. BTW if you did post about and exploit-which Ive clarified in prior posts hacks vs. exploits, you had a good chance of it being removed and told point #1. Again, Im surprised you dont know this.
    3. Ive said repeatedly he hit players CONSISTENTLY for 60k+. You do realize anyone can hit a non geared player for a lot, right? You just cant consistently do it. What dont you get about this? Personally I dont care about my random high hits when Im hitting what I know is. Non geared player. Now if I was consistently hitting everyone that high? Its a bit odd.
    4. If you have a warrior with your forum name or close to it Ive seen one. They performed about as well as I do jumping on my horribly fragged warrior /4 months and going 7-7 or so in a wf. They werent bad by any means, but didnt stand out from other warriors to me, imo. If thats not you forget I mentioned it. Believe me, however. I havent noticed you. I publicly name the people in question, meaning your numbers were not in question, unless Ive named you. Does that help clarify things?
    Last edited by Wrastion; 12-22-2020 at 12:48 AM.

  7. #52
    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    Some shared buffs don't leave you if you leave the party. Maybe that is why some players outperform others. The critical hit rating of a warlock I see is so high vs. others. There can be legit reasons for it that are not hacking but it is questionable. I have seen a riftblade running around with stand tall on them but no healer in their party and if they have legendary I'm with you! or we'll get through this that can up survival significantly compared to other users as well.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 12-22-2020 at 03:02 AM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedynn View Post
    SS bug is not a hack. That is different than what you claim people are doing. Secondly, you have never ever once said anything to me about SS bug. Sha has been very vocal on the bug forums. I never seen the SS bug posted there and was thrown off by Ryco since there is no way to CANCELBUFF SERPENT STRIKE because serpent strike is not a buff... facepalm.Thirdly, if you knew about the bug why did you not just post it on forums. Why so quick to jump to players are hacking? I give all full credit to Syl..

    I've hit players for 58K+ Rift Burst without feast and just using weapon consumables, no vials. I am not a hacker.. lmao.
    Hi Aedynn,


    Please let me point out, that you are riding too long on errors of others, yet you complain about others riding too long on your own errors, such as the cancelbuff Virulent Haste. I have to admit, it's been some time since I played rogue, more so since I played sin. But whatever floats your boat.

    Apologies, but 58k on Rift Burst is nothing special. I've seen 70k Rift Bursts from the like of Jegodin and Cayzer. I never questioned the output.

    Also, it's not any player's job to make Devs or other players aware of bugs. It's not a cavalier offense.

    I'm with Wrastion here. I didn't see him using the term "hacking" in a definite statement. Hence, your posts do appear as if you are arguing for the sake of it. Just an observation.

    And last but not least, you are wrong. Again. The virulent haste "bug" was already mentioned (although this was never really looked further into) in 2017 by Nixia:

    http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...-4-1-bugs.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Maltie View Post
    • Virulent Haste debuff (Assassin Master of Poisons Legendary) is showing as cleansable in raid frames.
    But hey, you have a purpose here, I guess.


    Wakanda forever!
    Last edited by RycoRobyn; 12-22-2020 at 05:09 AM.

  9. #54
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    Happy Holidays everyone!

    Im going to stop assisting with long posts going off topic. We all know there are multitudes of issues, but focus should be attempting to get some light on the topic at hand-out of whack abilities, and what is causing imbalances disrupting what could be a better played out warfront. Exploits, it would seem, add to the discussion since some abilities are super enhanced or output only achievable by exploits.

    Maybe a CM can jump in like they used to, to at least address or acknowledge some things need help. The community has given several easy fixes, and ideas for cash shop profit. Maybe we need more posts like these in other-then the pvp section so there is a better chance it at least gets looked at. Multiple players complained so loudly about the chat banning issue the cm was forced to eventually reply and take action, as an example.

  10. #55
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    I did take a few recent complaints of things like dots threshers maw and some bug posts. and sent them to CM: Amaliena. I was talking to her on discord today expressing some concern about a lot of the things we’ve talked about in pvp from abilities to bugs to old/new pvp content. She asked me to send the forum posts to her. So i agree with Wrastion that we should start a new current updated thread with things to fix in pvp. I know there’s thousands of posts about things but no one is gonna read through all the crap to get to it so a fresh post i think could be a great place to start. Thank you everyone ☺️ Shotts@Seastone. let’s try to make this a team effort to get pvp to a better spot than the past four years. Gotta unite for the better and if it doesn’t work then we’re in the same spot no harm no foul.

  11. #56
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    fixing "bux/exploit" will not change much the game or can make it worse like fixing the instant puri heal if nothing is done to the whole pvp. if this CM report those bug/exploit i'm not even sure someone in the team can fix them without making them go the way they were created initialy..

    about fixing or balacing whole pvp, Disso started a post about severals things about different classes long time ago. u may like or no the person, is way of playing etc, it's the more close to someone that know about how class work. if u start to listen to every person here claiming he/she knows everything when in fact it's not accurate and didn't help at all (me the first) it will still be a mess and be a waste of time
    Last edited by sylaen; 12-22-2020 at 05:03 PM.

  12. #57
    Plane Touched RycoRobyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylaen View Post
    no
    So you discredit everyone here while encouraging to listen to 1 person who quit long time ago? That is the opposite of helping to fix things.

    The ones that "claim to know everything" have been corrected or at least you can see plenty of counter-arguments of others replying to claimers posts.

    What you see here (except for the toxic attempts of Konstantene to shut down this thread) are collective thoughts from active PVP players who don't agree with each other on everything. Discrediting their opinion because >you< think they are wrong can work both ways. In short, you're wrong in doing so.

    This thread and its many posts already have shown that there is interest and that it exists for a reason.

    I do vote for someone to volunteer and list down what has been discussed so far to make this thread more concise.

    Wakanda forever!

  13. #58
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    the way of wrastion to say inq+defiler offsoul is good or claiming for hack everywhere when he did not even stuff his toons
    the way of shas to fantasize about how some spell could be supercool or thinking about pvp without playing it
    your way to speak about legendary i m with you being the reason to keep 100%uptime of legendary rift burst buff when it just permit to get faster ur 50k/60k rift burst, after that it s just to keep attacking a target before losing the buff, u can do that with riftblade+reaver spec offsoul
    no animosity here, it's just questionable for me to want to fix the game only with your talks
    Last edited by sylaen; 12-23-2020 at 12:24 PM.

  14. #59
    Plane Touched RycoRobyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylaen View Post
    discussions arrogantes
    I'm not sure if I understood that well. Your syntax and the pint of arrogance is what makes me question everything you type.

    Legendary "I'm with you" not only allows much faster (3x faster, that is 300% faster, let me further iterate: that is Three Hundred per cent faster) cast of Rift Burst and Icy Burst, which makes it much easier to maintain the 65% damage buff of Legendary Rift Burst and the passive damage buff on autoattacks from Legendary Icy Burst respectively, but it also allows to do so without a target and out of combat. Good luck maintaining the Legendary Rift Burst damage buff without a target and with 1.5 second global cooldown with Reaver / Tempest only. Your bias speaks volumes.

    Wrastion actually makes sense, despite his tendency to take things a couple of steps further.

    Idk about Shas, I just appreciate any constructive criticism in general. What I don't appreciate is random jabs at people because of some superiority complex.
    Last edited by RycoRobyn; 12-23-2020 at 01:15 PM.

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